TWU and IAM representation alliance vote

[MetalMover]

 
And that's your reason to want change? That's the reason there needs to be cut from the TWU, IAM and Association. So that you can make changes on a whim? That's of course, if you happen to be the majority that wants the change and if you're not (as you are here in the TWU) then no change can happen. The thing is that the majority is empowered to make change, but you don't happen to be that majority and unless you are (whether here or elsewhere) you can't get what you want. 
 
Again, there were about 20,000 Members in AMFA and now there are 2,000. That's a pretty strong voice for me. Even stronger still when the pro-AMFA group hasn't been able to make a dent in organizing. No thanks. I'd rather not jump off the cliff just because it's there.

That's only one reason. The divide and conquer tactics that have driven a wedge between line and OH is another. But what has been in place was TUL's "roll call" vote. Whatever TUL wanted TUL got. But that changed somewhat, hasn't it?  It will change further as OH numbers decrease while the line's numbers increase. You do realize they are hiring line mechanics throughout the system, don't you? I bet that "roll call" vote doesn't look all that good now.
Was the TWU NOT the first to introduce the B scale? Mechanic work transferred to fleet service?
 
You can keep quoting about the loss of AMFA numbers all you want. Many of us still want change.
I think that the main reason for those TWU supporters being anti-AMFA is their alleged apathy for those who work OH and OH work in general. 

 

[WeAAsles]

That's only one reason. The divide and conquer tactics that have driven a wedge between line and OH is another. But what has been in place was TUL's "roll call" vote. Whatever TUL wanted TUL got. But that changed somewhat, hasn't it?  It will change further as OH numbers decrease while the line's numbers increase. You do realize they are hiring line mechanics throughout the system, don't you? I bet that "roll call" vote doesn't look all that good now.


So now if that has been the case for so many years against the line Mechanics on the roll call, I guess they're finally going to get there comeuppance for not taking you guys into consideration for so many years? The membership majority makes the decision through the membership vote. Doesn't matter what any negotiators bring back to you.

The ball will be in your court next time as to what you do with the power you've gained?


Was the TWU NOT the first to introduce the B scale? Mechanic work transferred to fleet service?


Mechanic work was never transferred over to Fleet. You guys voted it away for improvements in other areas. We can't simply come over and say "Hey we want deicing" and you know that. Put the blame where it belongs. Your negotiators and your membership.
 

 

[MetalMover]

 



Was the TWU NOT the first to introduce the B scale? Mechanic work transferred to fleet service?


Mechanic work was never transferred over to Fleet. You guys voted it away for improvements in other areas. We can't simply come over and say "Hey we want deicing" and you know that. Put the blame where it belongs. Your negotiators and your membership.
 
 
 
 

Oh you mean BEFORE we had maintenance locals? You mean BEFORE where mechanics were the MINORITY and all local presidents, VP's, treasurers and recording secretaries were either from cabin service or line cargo? Is that what you are referring to?
You mean mechanics had enough votes NOT to give work to the other work group majority?  
I got a news flash for you, during those years, MY negotiators called the shots and they were from fleet service. YOU CAN BE DAMNED SURE THEY WERE MORE THAN WILLING TO TAKE MECHANICS WORK FOR THEMSELVES.
 
Were you or were you not here for the 1983 contract? YES or NO?

 

[Vortilon]

 
Never denied negatives with TWU. I don't like the fact there is little communication since the last Convention. I think they could do better in educating and preparing their Stewards and they certainly need to find a better process for negotiations, as there is too much infighting. However, I'm not willing to burn down the house because there are a few broken windows. On the other hand, the alternative has had thousands of our Brothers and Sisters at other airlines turn to AMFA and then turn away. That can't be ignored. The fact they have about 2000 Members, that can't be ignored. The fact they've tried to organize at AA for a decade with no success, that can't be ignored either.
 
You're willing to run away from the TWU, the IAM and the Alliance to give AMFA a try and if they're no good then you'd run away again. That, my dear MetalMover, is not the way to advance.

 
 
Still trying to spin the truth to suit your TWU handlers huh.  Does the term "grass roots effort" mean anything to you?  You attempt to come accross as intelligent.  The AMFA drives at AA over the years - were all organized and ran by fellow AA AMTs wanting out of the communist collective - that is the standard industrial union way!  With AMFA there will be accountability and transparency.  No more back door deals.  No more lifetime appointments for TWU International reps that sellout the very people that they are supposed to represent.
 
You can harp on what happened at NWA all you want; fact is, most of the guys that lost their jobs at NWA, are proud that they made a stand.  My brother was one of them, and to this day he feels AMFA did the right thing.  That's all the affirmation I need.  NWA never fully recovered after that either.  If it weren't for the Delta merge, and gradual takeover of cultures, the maintenance department at NWA was coming apart at the seams.
 
As Metal Mover points out, the days of Tulsa's "roll call" majority are coming to an end.  The line AMTs have always voted for AMFA - easily by over 90%.  As more and more of the TWUs lies and deceptions over the years are exposed, the facade that the TWU presented is falling apart.  More and more overhaul AMTs are statring to realize that AMFA is the best way to go for mechanics at AA.

 

[WeAAsles]

Oh you mean BEFORE we had maintenance locals? You mean BEFORE where mechanics were the MINORITY and all local presidents, VP's, treasurers and recording secretaries were either from cabin service or line cargo? Is that what you are referring to?
You mean mechanics had enough votes NOT to give work to the other work group majority?  
I got a news flash for you, during those years, MY negotiators called the shots and they were from fleet service. YOU CAN BE DAMNED SURE THEY WERE MORE THAN WILLING TO TAKE MECHANICS WORK FOR THEMSELVES.
 
Were you or were you not here for the 1983 contract? YES or NO?

No I was not. I hired on in 1995. Did you guys vote together with Fleet then? And if you did I can absolutely see where you're coming from and can understand why you're sore about it.

Although I think you have far more control of your own destinies now that I can't understand why change and more so why AMFA? AMFA has not proven their mettle or worth. Give me the unemotional rundown of the years before I hired on from your perspective.

And if it was really so bad before the roller coaster of Sept 11 why didn't you leave long before then and go with someone else?

 

[Vortilon]

Oh you mean BEFORE we had maintenance locals? You mean BEFORE where mechanics were the MINORITY and all local presidents, VP's, treasurers and recording secretaries were either from cabin service or line cargo? Is that what you are referring to?
You mean mechanics had enough votes NOT to give work to the other work group majority?  
I got a news flash for you, during those years, MY negotiators called the shots and they were from fleet service. YOU CAN BE DAMNED SURE THEY WERE MORE THAN WILLING TO TAKE MECHANICS WORK FOR THEMSELVES.
 
Were you or were you not here for the 1983 contract? YES or NO?

 
 
I remember those days of having to be in a Fleet Service run local, where a part time ramper, working for beer money, gets to vote on what I make for a living.  I never voted to give up de-icing or even push backs.  Back then it was all about taking from Maintenance for the advancement of Fleet Service.  Who was the group that got the company to pay for AMT school to upgrade to AMT?  Meanwhile, AMTs that paid for their own schooling are out on the street, or if they were already hired - paying off student loans.  No other group got free schooling. 
 
BTW; word is, at least one of the Fleet Service locals is pushing to take even more maintenance work away.  With "so called" union brothers like that........  Time for AMFA

 

[AANOTOK]

 
 
I remember those days of having to be in a Fleet Service run local, where a part time ramper, working for beer money, gets to vote on what I make for a living.  I never voted to give up de-icing or even push backs.  Back then it was all about taking from Maintenance for the advancement of Fleet Service.  Who was the group that got the company to pay for AMT school to upgrade to AMT?  Meanwhile, AMTs that paid for their own schooling are out on the street, or if they were already hired - paying off student loans.  No other group got free schooling. 
 
BTW; word is, at least one of the Fleet Service locals is pushing to take even more maintenance work away.  With "so called" union brothers like that........  Time for AMFA

I think we should bring back "power backs" and let you guys do it!  B)

 

[MetalMover]

No I was not. I hired on in 1995. Did you guys vote together with Fleet then? And if you did I can absolutely see where you're coming from and can understand why you're sore about it.

Although I think you have far more control of your own destinies now that I can't understand why change and more so why AMFA? AMFA has not proven their mettle or worth. Give me the unemotional rundown of the years before I hired on from your perspective.

And if it was really so bad before the roller coaster of Sept 11 why didn't you leave long before then and go with someone else?

We had no control of our destines. If a mechanic was to run for local office, the fleet would make sure he got blown out in an election. We were a minority. Like Vortillon said, they were voting on mechanics wages and license premiums as the majority!!!!   Wanna guess how those contracts went?
As far as controlling our own destinies now, that is true with respect to voting on contracts. But now it has become a line vs OH fight. 
As far as wanting AMFA, well I will admit it, mainly a mechanics union dealing with mechanics issues. No disrespect or disregard towards the other work groups, they have their issues as well,  but the we have all seen how well  the proverbial "strength in numbers" union national mantra has served the airline workers over the past 30 + years. 
 
Our last attempt at AMFA found the TWU including dead people and retired people to those eligible to vote....And you ask why we want the TWU out?
 
How well do you think the pilots would have done over the decades if they included all of us?

 

[MetalMover]

 
 
I remember those days of having to be in a Fleet Service run local, where a part time ramper, working for beer money, gets to vote on what I make for a living.  I never voted to give up de-icing or even push backs.  Back then it was all about taking from Maintenance for the advancement of Fleet Service.  Who was the group that got the company to pay for AMT school to upgrade to AMT?  Meanwhile, AMTs that paid for their own schooling are out on the street, or if they were already hired - paying off student loans.  No other group got free schooling. 
 
BTW; word is, at least one of the Fleet Service locals is pushing to take even more maintenance work away.  With "so called" union brothers like that........  Time for AMFA

There was one town hall meeting where an automotive mechanic told DP that AA was paying mechanics $40 an hour to fix stands, ladders and bicycles and that it was HIS job to do it....
Last time I got paid, I wasn't making $40 an hour. 
Maybe he will get his wish but instead of giving it to his work group, it will be outsourced.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

MetalMover, Vortilion
 
WeAAsles heard all this over and over the reasons we want to be control of our class and craft.
 
he supports the TWU and that is his choice. He also supports being union, which we all can agree is needed here at AA.
 
To explain to him is just wasted time. The strength in numbers of the TWU/IAM or any other union is what he believes. 
 
We all just need to ask our fellow mechanics to get one card from the title 2 guys and the Tulsa non signers and that will push us over the TOP. Then if we do get a chance to submit the cards if the NMB does not find in favor of this association and block us we will at that point have the numbers to Finally Bring this to a VOTE.
 
We all know that the TWU has favored one Group over another to insure they stayed in the Good Graces of AA. From the extra yr to get vested in the 1991 contract to the 5&5 of the 1995 contract to the screwing we took without a snap back clause in the 2003 contract. We know that we got a big raise due to the fight the AMFA guys did at NWA.
 
We now need to insure that there is no wedge between Tulsa's O/H base and the Line.
They are part of our class and craft and we just need to support them as we want them to support US. Show them and remind them of all the Times the TWU over the yrs has scammed us all.
 
The NMB is doing us a favor by this delay giving us time to collect cards.
 
Lets not squander this time by infighting, its time to get one card from someone who hasn't signed for the rest of the month.
 
AMFA at AA in 2014.

 

[WeAAsles]

MetalMover, Vortilion
 
WeAAsles heard all this over and over the reasons we want to be control of our class and craft.
 
he supports the TWU and that is his choice. He also supports being union, which we all can agree is needed here at AA.
 
To explain to him is just wasted time. The strength in numbers of the TWU/IAM or any other union is what he believes. 
 
We all just need to ask our fellow mechanics to get one card from the title 2 guys and the Tulsa non signers and that will push us over the TOP. Then if we do get a chance to submit the cards if the NMB does not find in favor of this association and block us we will at that point have the numbers to Finally Bring this to a VOTE.
 
We all know that the TWU has favored one Group over another to insure they stayed in the Good Graces of AA. From the extra yr to get vested in the 1991 contract to the 5&5 of the 1995 contract to the screwing we took without a snap back clause in the 2003 contract. We know that we got a big raise due to the fight the AMFA guys did at NWA.
 
We now need to insure that there is no wedge between Tulsa's O/H base and the Line.
They are part of our class and craft and we just need to support them as we want them to support US. Show them and remind them of all the Times the TWU over the yrs has scammed us all.
 
The NMB is doing us a favor by this delay giving us time to collect cards.
 
Lets not squander this time by infighting, its time to get one card from someone who hasn't signed for the rest of the month.
 
AMFA at AA in 2014.

I'd just like to know if so many people hated it so much why have you all stuck around for 31 years now?

1983 was 31 years ago.

 

[NYer]

 
 
Still trying to spin the truth to suit your TWU handlers huh.  Does the term "grass roots effort" mean anything to you?  You attempt to come accross as intelligent.  The AMFA drives at AA over the years - were all organized and ran by fellow AA AMTs wanting out of the communist collective - that is the standard industrial union way!  With AMFA there will be accountability and transparency.  No more back door deals.  No more lifetime appointments for TWU International reps that sellout the very people that they are supposed to represent.
 
You can harp on what happened at NWA all you want; fact is, most of the guys that lost their jobs at NWA, are proud that they made a stand.  My brother was one of them, and to this day he feels AMFA did the right thing.  That's all the affirmation I need.  NWA never fully recovered after that either.  If it weren't for the Delta merge, and gradual takeover of cultures, the maintenance department at NWA was coming apart at the seams.
 
As Metal Mover points out, the days of Tulsa's "roll call" majority are coming to an end.  The line AMTs have always voted for AMFA - easily by over 90%.  As more and more of the TWUs lies and deceptions over the years are exposed, the facade that the TWU presented is falling apart.  More and more overhaul AMTs are statring to realize that AMFA is the best way to go for mechanics at AA.

 
The "grass roots" have failed...over and over.
 
I'm glad the mechanics from NWA are "glad," unfortunately they lost their jobs and it was a miscalculation on the part of their leadership. You can try to "pretty it up," but they still allowed lower costs at that airline at the time.
 
There has been no success at AMFA that would cause a "grass roots" effort to grab a hold of the majority and win an election. You guys try to make the argument that the TWU, IAM and everyone else sucks so we need to grab the least effective representation in the industry just because we can fire them.
 
I'd rather make a change knowing I will be moving forward and my family will be moving up with me. We're too old to make a point and lose our jobs for a "cause" like the hearty folks at NWA.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

 

That's only one reason. The divide and conquer tactics that have driven a wedge between line and OH is another. But what has been in place was TUL's "roll call" vote. Whatever TUL wanted TUL got. But that changed somewhat, hasn't it?  It will change further as OH numbers decrease while the line's numbers increase. You do realize they are hiring line mechanics throughout the system, don't you? I bet that "roll call" vote doesn't look all that good now.


So now if that has been the case for so many years against the line Mechanics on the roll call, I guess they're finally going to get there comeuppance for not taking you guys into consideration for so many years? The membership majority makes the decision through the membership vote. Doesn't matter what any negotiators bring back to you.

The ball will be in your court next time as to what you do with the power you've gained?


Was the TWU NOT the first to introduce the B scale? Mechanic work transferred to fleet service?


Mechanic work was never transferred over to Fleet. You guys voted it away for improvements in other areas. We can't simply come over and say "Hey we want deicing" and you know that. Put the blame where it belongs. Your negotiators and your membership.
 

 

 
WeAAsles 
 
I see your back to trying to get an A&P to down talk the fleet guys in hopes of calling the mechanics elitist again.
 
You have had this discussion before why do you need to rehash it again and again?
 
If we leave the TWU and or the IAM/TWU association what does it do to you?
 
What does the mechanics getting a union they want due to hurt the Fleet guys?
 
You support unions then why Bash AMFA?
 
We have separate Locals now even though that was a scam by the TWU, since we still had the SAME Intl. reps doing the Negotiations. So How does the fact that if we get AMFA here hurt the fleet guys? We will get a Local back in MIA, that Local will be
Local 6. Isn't that a positive for us as Union people?
 
We Want a VOTE, what is SO hard for you and other to understand. I wish you all the best and you can support the Association. Maybe it will work for the Fleet and others represented by the IAM. We DON"T WANT IT AT ALL>>>>>>>>>

 

[MetalMover]

 
The "grass roots" have failed...over and over.
 
I'm glad the mechanics from NWA are "glad," unfortunately they lost their jobs and it was a miscalculation on the part of their leadership. You can try to "pretty it up," but they still allowed lower costs at that airline at the time.
 
There has been no success at AMFA that would cause a "grass roots" effort to grab a hold of the majority and win an election. You guys try to make the argument that the TWU, IAM and everyone else sucks so we need to grab the least effective representation in the industry just because we can fire them.
 
I'd rather make a change knowing I will be moving forward and my family will be moving up with me. We're too old to make a point and lose our jobs for a "cause" like the hearty folks at NWA.

Please tell us why and how the TWU/IAM alliance will move you and your family forward? Are you buying promises already?
As for AMFA, I doubt very much this time the TWU will get away with including dead and retired people on the eligible voters list. 

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

I'd just like to know if so many people hated it so much why have you all stuck around for 31 years now?

1983 was 31 years ago.

 
WeAAsles most of the mechanics haven't, just hung around, most have worked at several carriers and like myself seen and discussed the failure of the TWU and what it did to the industry.
 
I have been around since the 1970's and turned down the first job offering by AA since it was a slap in the face. $ 9.50 to start and 12 yrs to top of the pay scale. I made more when I hired on at EAL my second carrier.