TWU and IAM representation alliance vote

[700UW]

You must be truly threatened by me and my knowledge.
 
You always continue to try and censor people who dont agree with you.
 
Come up with a new line and keep on showing your elitism.

 

[700UW]

You cant even answer a question without attacks and insults.
 
Did Fleet negotiate and vote on the mechanic and related CBA?
 
So I guess Bob has no power and clout and that is why you have such a terrible CBA that your own MECHANICS voted on and ratified.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

You cant even answer a question without attacks and insults.
 
Did Fleet negotiate and vote on the mechanic and related CBA?
 
So I guess Bob has no power and clout and that is why you have such a terrible CBA that your own MECHANICS voted on and ratified.

 
 
700UW
 
If your talking about Bob Owens you are right he has NO power. He is the Locals Treasurer. Zero Power within the TWU structure.
 
And I did answer you on how the TWU effects our CBA.
 
No I am Not in the slightest Bit threatened by a NON Airline employee. Its the rhetoric that you put up here that makes the job of the guys who want the TWU gone harder.
 
Its the taking over of the threads of the TWU represented employees with so much IAM bs that it all becomes hard to follow.
 
Whether its you or the other NON AA or TWU represented people who just want to see how much crap they can stir up.  If supporting my class and craft to the best of my ability makes me an elitist in your mind then you must have an inferiority complex.
 
maybe since you have NO LIFE that you still feel the need to talk about the airlines when you are and have been gone for quite a while.

 

[Bob Owens]

Oh Bob. Equity is based on the loses taken in BK. You like that the APFA received 9.5% in 401K match (for a select few, they have sliding scale that begins at 3%), however they received 3% in Equity. In order for the pilots to be able to freeze their pensions they needed to give up the lump sum option their had. They were once able to get between $1M and $2M lump sum payments at their retirement rather than monthly pension payments. That loss in value is what made their 13.5% Equity possible.
 
If you'd rather just give part of the story then fine. I'm sure those that just want to hear what they want to hear are perfectly fine with your "cliff note" explanations.

Talk about leaving stuff out the FAs get a contribution, not a match, with the contribution they dont have to fork over their own money to get their contribution. 25% of TWU members get zero funds from the company put away for their retirement because they cant afford to part with the required funds to get the match. Every flight attendant recieves monies towards their pensions for every hour they are working.

Equity was based on what the Union negotiated, the pilots gave up $310 million (that includes their pension) and they got 14%, we gave up $320 million and we got less than 5%. You wanted the rest of the story, well there you have it. Little and Videtich negotiated a deal where we gave $10 million more in concessions but recieved less than one third of the shares the pilots recieved. You are being dishonest.

BTW mechanics lost lump sums as well, they lost that outside of BK in 1983. The pilots union kept the lump sum option 30 years longer.

 

[Bob Owens]

Wait a minute.   You turned down $9.50/hr in "the 1970's" at AA because it was too low?
$9.50/hr in 1977 (you didn't specify exactly when) is equivalent to $37.30/hr today (factoring in the inflation since 1977).   The pay was a lot better then than it is today.   AA was offering you the equivalent of today's top of scale as a starting wage.

Yea and? I've been saying for a long time that we are earning half what we used to in real terms. From what he said he turned down an offer to work at AA in the late 80s because thats the only time it took 12 years to get to top pay. In 1977 it took two years to get to top pay, in 1983 the TWU agreed to B-scale where it took 9 years then in 1985 agreed to a twelve year top out however it backfired on them and they lowered it back down to 5 years after they found that despite the fact that both EAL and Pan Am went out of business they could not retain mechanics. Kind of like now, they cant find mechanics to replace those who leave and they cant get the mechanics they have to make the effort needed to maintain on time departures. Yes even new planes break. This management team wont even dangle out the carrott of profit sharing. Why would they go above and beyond for below and behind?

 

[Bob Owens]

No I'm saying through all the members that AMFA has lost it's not working. The numbers prove that point no matter how they got there.
Actually I'm the guy who made a motion here in MIA that the members have a say in who get's elected to the International that was read on the floor of the convention much to the chagrin of my current local president who now can't stand me since I put him in the spotlight. So maybe that answers that question?
Funny we tried to seek support for that initiative from Local 591 and never heard a peep in return from them? Maybe Bob can explain why his local had no interest in moving forward with the motion?

Dont recall it, or any solicitation for support, if it was made, we would have supported it. I was shocked that the measure to at least have electronic ballotting was not even allowed to be brought to the floor since Local 100 has been using it for years. While it wouldnt have lead to direct elections at least the members would know how their delegates voted.

The fact is we have the most Democratic accountable Local in the TWU. Members have the right to recall everyone from the President to the stewards, we have online voting for motions with an 85% participation rate and post detailed 50+ paged Financial reports on the website. Every member has the ability to contact me and see whatever they want to see of the records, all of which are scanned and enterred electronically in QB. Every officer has access to the electronic file as well, however due to the way the program is designed by quickbooks you have to have editing ability to see reciepts and only the accountant, President and myself have that so if they want to see that they have to contact me. Local 591 and the predecessors to 591 have supported democratic reform at every Convention since they were formed in 1999 and introduced several reforms to the last Convention.

 

[blue collar]

That's your biggest selling point but you guys always seem to run off into La La land from that message. And also seem to ignore the fact that the idea just isn't working no matter how hard you try to push it.

What happens if AMFA cannot secure a good CBA against SWA? How long do the members there have to wait to find out?

Actually it is working, just as advertised. I feel more engaged in this Union then I ever did with the TWU or IAM, where I was a steward. I'm not here to get the AA guys into it- that's their choice, but I can share my personal experience from both sides.
As far as our CBA, we can always keep voting NO and keep our current. I'm in no rush.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

 
Why don't you ask the past represented Members of AMFA at Mesaba, Northwest, Horizon, United, Ozark, Braniff, Republic and even the Trump Shuttle....All they have left in the picnic basket is Alaska and Southwest...2000 Members, not even 10% of what they used to have.....that's a winner? Hardly.
 
The TWU is doing well at SWA, what's your point?

 
I've just read through about 6 pages of your posts that continue to try and push this critique as some sort of excuse to vote for the alliance. 
 
USAirways is the IAMs last mechanic group among the majors, so by your own definition do you realize the IAM is far worse than AMFA for mechanics based on your argument?
 
Here are just a few of the airlines the IAM used to represent - Eastern, Northwest, Alaska, United, Continental, Aloha,TWA.
 
Better check those mechanic numbers along with your integrity
 
Oh and BTW, AMFA never represented Republic.
 

 

[comatose]

No I'm saying through all the members that AMFA has lost it's not working. The numbers prove that point no matter how they got there.

Actually I'm the guy who made a motion here in MIA that the members have a say in who get's elected to the International that was read on the floor of the convention much to the chagrin of my current local president who now can't stand me since I put him in the spotlight. So maybe that answers that question?

Funny we tried to seek support for that initiative from Local 591 and never heard a peep in return from them? Maybe Bob can explain why his local had no interest in moving forward with the motion?

 
So are you saying the IAM didn't do scab work?
 
I would/could never want to be associated with any association who is willing to scab.
 
That includes TWU's part in that debacle also.

 

[NYer]

 
Same for the IAM.....How's that?

 
IAM isn't representing me.

 

[NYer]

 
I said that since you seem happy with the TWU and you may be even part of the TWU. Other than just a memeber. If it does not effect you wallet then stop the bashing of a Union in which you have never been apart of or even want let us make our own mistake if that is the case. 

 
Bashing? Those are the facts.

 

[NYer]

 
NYer
 
We will see this time around, if we don't have the Cards to force a VOTE then those who remain will suffer with the TWU and or the Association.
 
At that point there WONT Be another AMFA drive since we the Organizers will be Old enough to just walk away, with our heads held high knowing that we tried and those who remain will not be able to whine ever again how bad the TWU is.
 
Then you can say what ever you want.

 
Most of the whiners are the minority looking for the change. If the majority were the whiners, the TWU would have been out.

 

[NYer]

Talk about leaving stuff out the FAs get a contribution, not a match, with the contribution they dont have to fork over their own money to get their contribution. 25% of TWU members get zero funds from the company put away for their retirement because they cant afford to part with the required funds to get the match. Every flight attendant recieves monies towards their pensions for every hour they are working.

Equity was based on what the Union negotiated, the pilots gave up $310 million (that includes their pension) and they got 14%, we gave up $320 million and we got less than 5%. You wanted the rest of the story, well there you have it. Little and Videtich negotiated a deal where we gave $10 million more in concessions but recieved less than one third of the shares the pilots recieved. You are being dishonest.

BTW mechanics lost lump sums as well, they lost that outside of BK in 1983. The pilots union kept the lump sum option 30 years longer.

 
The $310M does not include their lump sum option, nice try. The Equity is byproduct of a bankruptcy and ALL creditors received Equity from the Creditors Committee commensurate to their losses within that process.
 
As far as the APFA, well I guess you could have done better for us. I mean you guys were involved in the negotiations....Oh wait. It was someone else who is fault....even though you were at the table. Copy.

 

[NYer]

 
I've just read through about 6 pages of your posts that continue to try and push this critique as some sort of excuse to vote for the alliance. 
 
USAirways is the IAMs last mechanic group among the majors, so by your own definition do you realize the IAM is far worse than AMFA for mechanics based on your argument?
 
Here are just a few of the airlines the IAM used to represent - Eastern, Northwest, Alaska, United, Continental, Aloha,TWA.
 
Better check those mechanic numbers along with your integrity
 
Oh and BTW, AMFA never represented Republic.
 

 
I'm not voting for the IAM either.

 

[OldGuy@AA]

Yea and? I've been saying for a long time that we are earning half what we used to in real terms. From what he said he turned down an offer to work at AA in the late 80s because thats the only time it took 12 years to get to top pay. In 1977 it took two years to get to top pay, in 1983 the TWU agreed to B-scale where it took 9 years then in 1985 agreed to a twelve year top out however it backfired on them and they lowered it back down to 5 years after they found that despite the fact that both EAL and Pan Am went out of business they could not retain mechanics. Kind of like now, they cant find mechanics to replace those who leave and they cant get the mechanics they have to make the effort needed to maintain on time departures. Yes even new planes break. This management team wont even dangle out the carrott of profit sharing. Why would they go above and beyond for below and behind?

This is correct Bob.  There was a shortage of available mechanics because they went to work for the other airlines because they all made more money than we did at AA.  We had hoped the TWU would use this to raise our pay but instead they started a junior mechanic upgrade program for career fleet service, stock clerks and cleaners here in Tulsa.  We tried to get the TWU to re-emburse all AMTs for the money they paid for their A&P licenses and were laughed at.  Of course the TWU also came up with the SRP (now OSM) so there was a lower classification to force AMTs into during a layoff.