TWU and IAM representation alliance vote

[NYer]

When the IAM or TWU lose headcount=due to bankruptcy and/or management
When AMFA loses headcount=failure on the part of the union

Unreal.

Josh

 
No Josh, not at all. AMFA has nothing to do with the mediated negotiations that led to a strike and the eventual replacement of 3900 mechanics. It was a calculated risk like all such actions, but they lost.

 

[737823]

NYer you are AA/TWU...why are you actively pushing the alliance?

Josh

 

[FWAAA]

NYer you are AA/TWU...why are you actively pushing the alliance?

Josh, you ignorant slut.

Don't you know that employees will make better wage and benefit gains if they're represented by their existing pre-merger unions? Just because the low-wage US pilots and low-wage US flight attendants went with the union of the bigger workgroup doesn't mean that the mechanics should do the same. Who wants to be represented by a union who would actually fight for the chance to represent you? Isn't it better if the two low-wage mechanics' unions join hands and agree not to try to win the right to represent everyone in the workgroup? Won't the employees be better off with their toothless Kumbya-singing unions like the IAM and the TWU?

 

[NYer]

Yes as a matter of fact I do, if you Log on to the Local 591 website you can go to the Tab on the left side called "TWU/IAM Association Documents". Then scroll down to the bottom and you will see a document entitled "TWU and IAM Joint Agreement on Pensions" after several "Whereas's" it says;
 
"NOW THEREFORE, TWU and IAM agree to propose a defined benefit pension with the IAMPF in negotiations with the new American Airlines for single , combined Bargaining Agreements covering mechanic and relaters, Fleet service and stores ,,,,,,
 
Don't know how to attach the pdf file but anyone that wants a copy can send me an email or pm but it makes it vary clear that the intent is to get us all in the IAMPF.  Did you not see that document NYer, or where you just hoping I didn't? 

 
It also says, "TWU and IAM further agree that, in the event that negotiations with the Carrier to cover the entire crafts or classes of Mechanic and Related, Fleet Service, and Stores at the New American Airlines do not result in agreement, TWU will support continued participation in the IAMNPF of those of the Carrier's employees who are already participants in the IAMNPF."
 
Clearly, the agreement will not force anyone not currently participating to do so. It also protects those that do and want to participate in the Plan to continue to do so.
 
Ironically, without the Association and with the IAM winning a representational vote it would be more probable that we'd be forced into the IAMNPF. So you're protest of the Association is actually giving you a higher probability to be forced into a Plan you don't seem to want to be a part of. Ironic.

 

[WeAAsles]

 
Expound? AMFA led the NWA mechanics to strike.
 
Pray tell, what is your version of the "truth"?

Much like Mr Owens was also seeming to advocate? I remember him stating that the BK rules or laws were something that he didn't agree with and that we should fight against them. Laws written by Politicians that are against us. 

Now he advocates that the IAM should step aside because of the NMB rules or laws. Also written by Politicians.

Seems to me that Bob only like the laws when they favor his position?

 

[MetalMover]

 
It also says, "TWU and IAM further agree that, in the event that negotiations with the Carrier to cover the entire crafts or classes of Mechanic and Related, Fleet Service, and Stores at the New American Airlines do not result in agreement, TWU will support continued participation in the IAMNPF of those of the Carrier's employees who are already participants in the IAMNPF."
 
Clearly, the agreement will not force anyone not currently participating to do so. It also protects those that do and want to participate in the Plan to continue to do so.
 
Ironically, without the Association and with the IAM winning a representational vote it would be more probable that we'd be forced into the IAMNPF. So you're protest of the Association is actually giving you a higher probability to be forced into a Plan you don't seem to want to be a part of. Ironic.

And you believe EVERYTHING the TWU tells you? let alone the IAM?
I'm going to save this post of yours. Because should this BS alliance survive, we will ALL be taking it in our arses with the IAM controlling the purse strings.
It is one thing to have Wall Street handle a pension, but to have a loser union control what's left of my retirement is the worser of the options.
 
We might get screwed out of our pre-funding match, what makes you think we should trust a loser union with our pensions?

 

[NYer]

None of the details you mentioned changes anything, everything I said is still correct and indisputable. APA also received nearly 15% of the equity in addition to the 401k of 13.5%. (Didn't the pilots also keep their retiree medical?? )That equity was triple the amount we received and it was spread over far fewer heads, could have easily been worth over $100,000 per pilot, sure as hell beats a 5.5% match and less than 5% equity spread out over many more people.  I never said it was a win, said it was much much better than what we ended up with, and even you don't dispute that, instead you try and change the subject by pointing out that it was not a win, I agree, but again its much, much, much better than what we ended up with. 

 
Oh Bob. Equity is based on the loses taken in BK. You like that the APFA received 9.5% in 401K match (for a select few, they have sliding scale that begins at 3%), however they received 3% in Equity. In order for the pilots to be able to freeze their pensions they needed to give up the lump sum option their had. They were once able to get between $1M and $2M lump sum payments at their retirement rather than monthly pension payments. That loss in value is what made their 13.5% Equity possible.
 
If you'd rather just give part of the story then fine. I'm sure those that just want to hear what they want to hear are perfectly fine with your "cliff note" explanations.

 

[NYer]

NYer you are AA/TWU...why are you actively pushing the alliance?

Josh

 
I'd rather not take a chance to lose what the TWU has, as far as agreements like OT, the current grievance process, the ability to easily change schedules and all the little things many take for granted. I don't believe it is a slam dunk the TWU would win simply because we have the higher numbers. Just on these pages you can see how so many, spend so much time talking against the TWU.
 
In having a vote, what is the upside. What is there to gain as a TWU Member. On the other hand, how much can I lose if the IAM wins. Those factors make it a foolish risk to take.
 
With the Association, each side can keep what they have and we can all get to negotiations.
 
I understand why the AMFA supporters don't want it and don't like it. Simply, it makes their decade long push for AMFA even harder with the added numbers of the IAM.

 

[NYer]

And you believe EVERYTHING the TWU tells you? let alone the IAM?
I'm going to save this post of yours. Because should this BS alliance survive, we will ALL be taking it in our arses with the IAM controlling the purse strings.
It is one thing to have Wall Street handle a pension, but to have a loser union control what's left of my retirement is the worser of the options.
 
We might get screwed out of our pre-funding match, what makes you think we should trust a loser union with our pensions?

 
What's the alternative? AMFA? The poster child of loser union.

 

[WeAAsles]

And you believe EVERYTHING the TWU tells you? let alone the IAM?
I'm going to save this post of yours. Because should this BS alliance survive, we will ALL be taking it in our arses with the IAM controlling the purse strings.
It is one thing to have Wall Street handle a pension, but to have a loser union control what's left of my retirement is the worser of the options.
 
We might get screwed out of our pre-funding match, what makes you think we should trust a loser union with our pensions?

Isn't the membership the ultimate decider when it comes to any CBA? So you truly believe that if the negotiators were able to get the company to agree to unfreeze our pension and place it again at risk under the IAMPF that the members would go along with that and say, sure?

Most of the people who I work with in Fleet are very well educated that we wouldn't be interested in that option and I'm positive would overwhelmingly vote against that no matter how much was offered in return.

Are you implying that Mechanics are not as educated as the Fleet group is then?

 

[MetalMover]

 
What's the alternative? AMFA? The poster child of loser union.

Better than the Alliance, let alone the TWU or the IAM.
Why don't you ask the SWA guys how much of a loser union AMFA is?

 

[MetalMover]

Isn't the membership the ultimate decider when it comes to any CBA? So you truly believe that if the negotiators were able to get the company to agree to unfreeze our pension and place it again at risk under the IAMPF that the members would go along with that and say, sure?

Most of the people who I work with in Fleet are very well educated that we wouldn't be interested in that option and I'm positive would overwhelmingly vote against that no matter how much was offered in return.

Are you implying that Mechanics are not as educated as the Fleet group is then?

Did you have a say when the TWU voted on YOUR behalf to eliminate profit sharing?
Did you forget that jim Little was on record as saying that should the BK concession contract have gotten voted down, then HE would've had UN-DID the no vote?
 
You pro TWUers are a hoot!
You don't trust the company, don;t trust the government, but you trust the self serving union leadership.
 
Let me know how you feel should the TWU FORCE YOU INTO THE IAMPNF!
There is more of a self serving meaning to this BS alliance than they are letting us in on.

 

[NYer]

Better than the Alliance, let alone the TWU or the IAM.
Why don't you ask the SWA guys how much of a loser union AMFA is?

 
Why don't you ask the past represented Members of AMFA at Mesaba, Northwest, Horizon, United, Ozark, Braniff, Republic and even the Trump Shuttle....All they have left in the picnic basket is Alaska and Southwest...2000 Members, not even 10% of what they used to have.....that's a winner? Hardly.
 
The TWU is doing well at SWA, what's your point?

 

[blue collar]

 
Why don't you ask the past represented Members of AMFA at Mesaba, Northwest, Horizon, United, Ozark, Braniff, Republic and even the Trump Shuttle....All they have left in the picnic basket is Alaska and Southwest...2000 Members, not even 10% of what they used to have.....that's a winner? Hardly.
 
The TWU is doing well at SWA, what's your point?

AMFA has a lot more transparency and accountability. Two big things industrial unions don't.

 

[WeAAsles]

Did you have a say when the TWU voted on YOUR behalf to eliminate profit sharing?

No because there was an extreme time constraint to making that decision and from having heard what Delta employees are going to get when you average it for the year it was a good decision. Especially to those who put in those tons of extra hours.
 
Did you forget that jim Little was on record as saying that should the BK concession contract have gotten voted down, then HE would've had UN-DID the no vote?

Did he do that when you guys said no the first time? No you still had time to make changes that the membership then slimly accepted.
 
You pro TWUers are a hoot!
You don't trust the company, don;t trust the government, but you trust the self serving union leadership.

Never said that I trust anyone. Union leaders or otherwise. I do trust what I read though and my own common sense.
 
Let me know how you feel should the TWU FORCE YOU INTO THE IAMPNF!

Let me know how you feel when that doesn't happen. I doubt you will though?
 
There is more of a self serving meaning to this BS alliance than they are letting us in on.

You have been told what that is but you just don't believe it.