TWU and IAM representation alliance vote

[Kev3188]

 

...all you do is spread hate and discontent

Real talk.

 

[737823]

Let's recall the IAM vs TWU threads from late 2012/early 2013 before the alliance was announced.

Josh

 

[Kev3188]

Why? So we can all (re) read them, or so you can use it as a jump off point to wind 700 up?

 

[737823]

No so people can educate themselves and make an informed vote on the alliance if/when they are given the opportunity. Nothing to do with 700 he isn't even voting.

Josh

 

[Kev3188]

Oh right, right...

 

[700UW]

No so people can educate themselves and make an informed vote on the alliance if/when they are given the opportunity. Nothing to do with 700 he isn't even voting.
Josh

Hypocrite you don't have a vote nor any connection to AA or US. All you do is spread hate and discontent, flame airbase your anti-union and anti-worker rhetoric.

 

[john john]

Ok so what happens to the TWU guys in BOS, PHL and DCA that will be forced into the IAM? Do they go into the IAMPF or stay with the 401K? What about the IAM folks in LGA, do they lose their IAMPF because they were forced into the TWU? 
 
The Alliance already stated that they want us all in the IAMPF. 
 
Two sides fighting each other vs one union? If its difficult when both are in the same union it can only be worse when they are in two different unions. Thats why both the Pilots and Flight Attendants went with one union, not two. Unlike the incident in 2006 between the TWU and IAM there was no violence and the Unions simply did what was good for the members. I won't argue that the Alliance certainly beats having people hospitalized and the Union paying out $800,000 but any deal should be whats better for the members, not whats better for the leaders of the Unions, clearly as hard as you try and spin it this deal is not because the members will benefit or desire this, its because Little and Buffy want it.  
 
If you believe the members want this then why not simply put it to a vote like the IBT/CWA did?

The CWA/IBT alliance benefited the America West Passenger Service Agents significantly. HP agents had the worst pay, work rules benefits among all airlines. Brought them into the best scope in the industry gave them profit sharing and good pay and work rules. HP agents had every thing to gain USAirways agents had every thing to lose. Still had 50+1 rule. Gave parker a very smooth transition that he is enjoying to this day

 

[737823]

The CWA/IBT alliance benefited the America West Passenger Service Agents significantly. HP agents had the worst pay, work rules benefits among all airlines. Brought them into the best scope in the industry gave them profit sharing and good pay and work rules. HP agents had every thing to gain USAirways agents had every thing to lose. Still had 50+1 rule. Gave parker a very smooth transition that he is enjoying to this day

What are the implications of the UA agreement for AA/US joint negotiations?

http://www.airlineforums.com/topic/57720-implications-of-ua-iam-pce-agreement-for-us-cwa/

Josh

 

[john john]

The alliance was done fast and energetic and what was management to do when it was a given. I believe senior management was salivating to have a good old union brouhaha didn’t happen

 

[700UW]

What are the implications of the UA agreement for AA/US joint negotiations? http://www.airlineforums.com/topic/57720-implications-of-ua-iam-pce-agreement-for-us-cwa/
Josh

More flamebait.

 

[iluvaa]

Hypocrite you don't have a vote nor any connection to AA or US. All you do is spread hate and discontent, flame airbase your anti-union and anti-worker rhetoric.

i laugh at ever post that you tell him this.. Geez for a supposed smart guy you don't see the irony here. Do you get a vote, are you connected to aa or us ha I think not

 

[TRAVIS]

i laugh at ever post that you tell him this.. Geez for a supposed smart guy you don't see the irony here. Do you get a vote, are you connected to aa or us ha I think not

I can see him hitting his computer with a IAM hat and IAM fuzzy slippers..LMAO

 

[Bob Owens]

 
Good Lord Bob....I guess it's easier to make things up as you go as long as it fits the rhetoric.
 
The Association does not say they want us all in the IAMPF, but I'm sure you have the language to prove me wrong?
 
 

Yes as a matter of fact I do, if you Log on to the Local 591 website you can go to the Tab on the left side called "TWU/IAM Association Documents". Then scroll down to the bottom and you will see a document entitled "TWU and IAM Joint Agreement on Pensions" after several "Whereas's" it says;
 
"NOW THEREFORE, TWU and IAM agree to propose a defined benefit pension with the IAMPF in negotiations with the new American Airlines for single , combined Bargaining Agreements covering mechanic and relaters, Fleet service and stores ,,,,,,
 
Don't know how to attach the pdf file but anyone that wants a copy can send me an email or pm but it makes it vary clear that the intent is to get us all in the IAMPF.  Did you not see that document NYer, or where you just hoping I didn't? 

 

[Bob Owens]

 
 
You like numbers, too bad your information is incomplete....The flight attendants contributions went to 9.5% but it was an aged based formula where many of the flights attendants received far less than that. (but I guess to you that's a minor detail not worth mentioning.)
 
The APA came out with 13.5% and the majority of that was due to the loss of the "lump sum" pension payments that could be worth up to $2M per pilot. Their 13.5% equaled less than 5% of that total...hardly a win.
 
You've changed the subject several times but is another of the Bob Tactics to sway attention away from arguments being lost.

None of the details you mentioned changes anything, everything I said is still correct and indisputable. APA also received nearly 15% of the equity in addition to the 401k of 13.5%. (Didn't the pilots also keep their retiree medical?? )That equity was triple the amount we received and it was spread over far fewer heads, could have easily been worth over $100,000 per pilot, sure as hell beats a 5.5% match and less than 5% equity spread out over many more people.  I never said it was a win, said it was much much better than what we ended up with, and even you don't dispute that, instead you try and change the subject by pointing out that it was not a win, I agree, but again its much, much, much better than what we ended up with. 

 

[Bob Owens]

 
The IAM needs thousands less cards than AMFA and with so many speaking against the TWU why on earth would you believe it can't happen. That just a planly silly statement, regardless of who said it.
 
In order for the Preferential Hiring, or any other cooperation, you'd need to two unions to agree to do it and if we're fighting for representation you believe they would agree to any cooperation. C'mon Bob, at least make you arguments more logical that is a ridiculous statement.
 
Don't know if they have such an agreement, but if they do it is because they have been cooperating with each other for quite some time. So much so, that the APFA has a CBA and the APA is on the fast track to a CBA. If we didn't have the Association then we'd have to wait a much longer time to negotiations than what we face today.

Silly statement? Why? Because as bad as the Little /Videtich deal is the membership wants no part of the IAM or the Association. They may collect a few cards among the ex-TWA guys but nowhere near enough to get to 50%+1. In fleet they would do even worse. The IAM had their opportunity to show what kind of deal they could get with a profitable company, and what they came up with was a wage we got out of BK, pretty pathetic. 
 
Preferential Hirig- So you are saying that the leaders of these two unions would screw each others members if they didn't agree to share the dues. gives us an even clearer picture of Little and Buffys real feelings about what the labor movement is all about. 
 
You conveniently leave out the fact that in the APA and APFA case the other unions bowed out and the APA and APFA determined what the agreement would be, whereas with the Association before they go to the company the TWU and IAM have to figure out what parts of each contract they want to salvage, so far its all IAM, they have agreed to adopt the IAM seniority integration (dumb-tie breaker by SSN instead of age) and the IAMPF.