TWU and IAM representation alliance vote

[Bob Owens]

The CWA/IBT alliance benefited the America West Passenger Service Agents significantly. HP agents had the worst pay, work rules benefits among all airlines. Brought them into the best scope in the industry gave them profit sharing and good pay and work rules. HP agents had every thing to gain USAirways agents had every thing to lose. Still had 50+1 rule. Gave parker a very smooth transition that he is enjoying to this day

Glad to hear it worked out for you, but you guys had the opportunity to vote on it before it was put to the NMB, NYer and others don't want us to have that opportunity.
 
So where are you guys sitting now as far as your standing in the industry? Are you #1 in pay in benefits, in the middle, or still at (a not quite so distant) bottom? 
 
Question is if America West was so bad why didn't you just all go to the CWA? Do you think if you had done that your current CBA would be worse, if so, why? 
 
Your set up is basically and East-West alliance, ours is a complete mess because it was not organized to meet the members needs but to preserve the dues base between the two unions. Currently there are more TWU members at the new AA than there are IAM members but that station is going IAM, in EWR the mechanics are TWU but Fleet is IAM, same thing in RDU and a few other stations. Its a complete mess, we are talking large numbers of members will be swapped from one union to the other without their consent and without changing location. For many it means a large increase in dues so in reality a cut in take home pay.  

 

[Bob Owens]

The alliance was done fast and energetic and what was management to do when it was a given. I believe senior management was salivating to have a good old union brouhaha didn’t happen

Didn't happen with the Pilots or Flight Attendants, the other Unions did the right thing and walked away.
 
We are more likely to have a battle between the members and the Internationals if they try and jam this down our throats. The IAM needs to walk away, they had their chance to show what they could do, but they blew it big time, giving the new AA a bottom of the industry contract while earning record profits. Didn't even get profit sharing to make up for it. Latest projection is for AA to have a 12% margin and the IAM couldn't even get UALs old deal, they have been in negotiations for three years. 

 

[Duke787]

The FAs get industry leading and the IAM gets that hunk of poo contract. Not the way to advertise how good you are going to be aircraft mechanics of AA.

How is it that flight attendants can command such respect and the TWU and IAM continually let mechanics down, and the APFA is dealing with the same management.

 

[Bob Owens]

TWU and IAM Joint Agreement on Pensions
 
This Agreement is made between the Transport Workers Union of America ("TWU") and the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers ("IAM)
 
Whereas,,,
Whereas,,,
Whereas,,,
Whereas,,,
Whereas,,,
Whereas,,,
Whereas,,,
 
NOW Therefore, TWU and IAM agree to propose a defined benefit pension plan with the IAMNPF in negotiations with the New American Airlines for single , combined Collective  Bargaining Agreements covering Mechanic and Related, Fleet Service and Stores employees in order to provide a defined benefit pension for those employees at American Airlines whose pensions were frozen in American's bankruptcy, and to continue the participation of those employees at US Airways who currently have a defined benefit pensions in the IAMNPF.
 
TWU and IAM further agree to give priority to reaching agreement in negotiations with the New American Airlines on a defined benefit pension with the IAMPF for Mechanic and Related, Fleet Service and Stores employees.
 
TWU and IAM further agree that, in the event that in negotiations with the Carrier to cover the entire crafts or classes of Mechanic and Related, Fleet Service and Stores at the New American Airlines do not result in agreement, TWU will support continued participation in the IAMPF of those of the Carrier's employees who are already participants in the IAMNPF.
 
TWU and IAM further agree that TWU will propose a defined benefit plan with the IAMPF in negotiations with the New American Airlines for Collective Bargaining Agreements covering the Other TWU-represented Crafts or Classes, and that the IAM will facilitate the participation of these in the IAMNPF.
 
Entered into this 9th day of May , 2013
 
Transport Workers Union                                                       International Association of                                                                          
of America                                                                              Machinists and Aerospace Workers
 
 
Robert Gless Deputy Director                                                Sito Pantoja, General Vice President

 

[Bob Owens]

So for all WeAasles and NYers  BS its pretty clear that the IAM desperately wants us in the IAMPF, they even want the other TWU groups. (Perhaps that had more to do with those other groups opting to leave than anything else.) So for the lie that if we reject the agreement we would be screwing the US guys out of the IAMPF the fact is that this agreement proves you don't have to be an IAM member to be in the IAMPF, so why should they be kicked out? The Lie that the IAMPF would not want the AA guys is also out the window. Whats amazing is how far in bed with management both Little and the IAM leadership is. This deal is great for the company, bad for us. 
 
 
The company would love nothing better than to dump us into the IAMPF, in fact they probably have been planning on this, its better than dumping it in the PBGC and here is why;
 - If the company had dumped the Pensions in the PBGC the PBGC would be the largest shareholder in the New AA, now PBGC owns nothing
-If the pension went to the PBGC it would have been unlikely that AA could have made everyone(except labor) whole.
-If AA had dumped the pension in the PBGC our ability to retire at 60 without penalty would have been preserved, this provision added to the debt of the pension and would have increased the PBGC ownership of the new AA.
-the only way AA can get out of the no penalty at 60 would be to get us to agree to negotiate it away because its a vested benefit, and by going into the IAMPF thats exactly what we would be doing
-By dumping our pensions in the IAMPF the debt of the plan would drop dramatically, so AA would save millions, the IAMPF would get a huge influx of cash and millions of dollars that should go to us would simply disappear off everyones spreadsheets along with our ability to retire at 60 without penalty. 
 
So with their plan the company will get to dump their pension liability for around 30,000 workers, just like Delta, United and others but they will be able to do it without any cost whatsoever other than what ever they negotiate underfunding balance remains(which they would likely fund with an equity stake-so in other words nothing), which even if it were real money would be more than offset by the much lower fixed $2 x 2080 hour IAMPF contribution rate vs 5.5% match on all earnings that TWU/AA workers currently get.

 

[OldGuy@AA]

Bob the only unbelievable thing about this is the way the IAM guys on this board deny it.  They realize their pension plan is going south and they want our money in it to try to salvage something for themselves.  If the alliance is allowed to go through this will happen and we will be told to shut up and like it.  AA will save millions and we will be eating cat food in retirement.  It's such a pity these koolaid drinkers can't see the truth.

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob the only unbelievable thing about this is the way the IAM guys on this board deny it.  They realize their pension plan is going south and they want our money in it to try to salvage something for themselves.  If the alliance is allowed to go through this will happen and we will be told to shut up and like it.  AA will save millions and we will be eating cat food in retirement.  It's such a pity these koolaid drinkers can't see the truth.

Hopefully I'm wrong but the way I'm reading this what AA could not take away, even in BK , the Alliance will. By forcing us into the IAMPF we could lose the ability to retire as early as 60 without penalty, and still work somewhere else if we wanted to.

 

[WeAAsles]

Hopefully I'm wrong but the way I'm reading this what AA could not take away, even in BK , the Alliance will. By forcing us into the IAMPF we could lose the ability to retire as early as 60 without penalty, and still work somewhere else if we wanted to.

You're wrong. And maybe a little slightly paranoid as well?

 

[TRAVIS]

SOMEONE GET THE MOP WE NEED CLEAN UP PAGE 97 LOL. TELL THEM LIKE IS BOB...+1

 

[Bob Owens]

You're wrong. And maybe a little slightly paranoid as well?

Prove it.
 
Didn't you say that when I said "Don't spend the matching funds"? Here we are at the end of 2014, over two years from DOS and not only do we not have the matching funds but the company is aging we aren't entitled to it. 

 

[737823]

Bob what do you think of Sito Pantoja? He will be running the association.

Josh

 

[MetalMover]

Bob the only unbelievable thing about this is the way the IAM guys on this board deny it.  They realize their pension plan is going south and they want our money in it to try to salvage something for themselves.  If the alliance is allowed to go through this will happen and we will be told to shut up and like it.  AA will save millions and we will be eating cat food in retirement.  It's such a pity these koolaid drinkers can't see the truth.

Funny you mention "going south."
In this article, the IAM is touting that it offers a defined pension.....
 
http://www.thestreet.com/story/12908837/1/labor-gains-ground-in-the-south-and-eyes-a-delta-contract.html?puc=yahoo&cm_ven=YAHOO

 

[john john]

Glad to hear it worked out for you, but you guys had the opportunity to vote on it before it was put to the NMB, NYer and others don't want us to have that opportunity.
 
So where are you guys sitting now as far as your standing in the industry? Are you #1 in pay in benefits, in the middle, or still at (a not quite so distant) bottom? 
 
Question is if America West was so bad why didn't you just all go to the CWA? Do you think if you had done that your current CBA would be worse, if so, why? 
 
Your set up is basically and East-West alliance, ours is a complete mess because it was not organized to meet the members needs but to preserve the dues base between the two unions. Currently there are more TWU members at the new AA than there are IAM members but that station is going IAM, in EWR the mechanics are TWU but Fleet is IAM, same thing in RDU and a few other stations. Its a complete mess, we are talking large numbers of members will be swapped from one union to the other without their consent and without changing location. For many it means a large increase in dues so in reality a cut in take home pay.

To have a runoff vote would have been risky with the 50+1 and non-votes being counting as NO votes. A runoff would have been costly and time consuming as well. CWA/IBT Association workout to be the best way to work together for a united passenger service group and to bring the HP salaries and conditions at America West agents who had no contract at all just voted to organize and had the worst pay benefits work rules in the industry up to the CWA contract level, CWA/IBT has able to improve aspects of the CWA contract (for example: "snap backs" holidays, vacation, sickdays, premiums, Mainline Express Agents to the Mainline pay scale etc.). And eventually got a single improved contract protecting the entire passenger service group

 

[WeAAsles]

Prove it.
 
Didn't you say that when I said "Don't spend the matching funds"? Here we are at the end of 2014, over two years from DOS and not only do we not have the matching funds but the company is aging we aren't entitled to it. 

Read the CBA, the agreement is that we would get the Match upon "successful resolution" of the Retiree Benefits modification sought by the Company and the "termination of the Trust" in which the Match funds are being held. Judge Lane has not allowed either of those things to be done because the Retiree Benefits modification being sought by the Company has not ended under the AMR BK. It is still being argued by the both sides in an Adversarial Proceeding under the AMR BK. So in short, that has not been changed in the CBA.

And the company asked for and received an extension till Jan 15, 2015 for all outstanding issues regarding the BK that have not been settled yet as well. They filed that there were 140 issues left to be resolved of which the retirees are but one. 

Neither of us can prove anything until the retiree medical issue is resolved Bob. Then we'll see what happens and if a legal grievance needs to be put forth?
 

 

[NYer]

Oh I see, still fighting against AMFA,
I thought this was the iam/twu association thread...
Sent on strike, interesting twist on the truth, care to expound on that?
B) xUT

 
Expound? AMFA led the NWA mechanics to strike.
 
Pray tell, what is your version of the "truth"?