TWU and IAM representation alliance vote

[Rogallo]

What is sad is that the IBT contract is much better then the TWU contract.

 
Who's isn't?

 

[exs]

The IAM is not the IAMNPF.
 
Two total and separate entities, the PBGC would step in, they back the IAMPF as its a DBP, unlike a 401k which has NO safeguards.

Really? No Safeguards? Just the name IAM in front of Pension Fund is enough for me. No Thanks, I'll keep my 401k where I can control my money.

 

[NYer]

Nyer, I am curious where you get your information from? It is so far from reality. The UA/CO merger actually has more changes on the UAL side. The teamsters basically carbon copied sCAL inferior contract and applied it to UAL. SFO just lost the rotating days where all had a piece of weekends to fixed days off where the highest few get to enjoy weekends with their families.
 
sCAL really has had no changes. Oh wait, sCAL took UALs jumpseat policy for A&P's. What is the policy you ask? NO JUMPSEAT!! So, the teamsters have applied and let the new UAL apply the worst of either side.
 
And, what makes you say it is more probable for the association to keep the positives from both sides? The teamsters are one entity and couldn't do it. What information do you have to show 2 different entities could or would keep the best from both sides? And, what makes you think the new AA would let you keep the best from both sides? From what I see, AA has walked over both unions with ease.
 
So please show us your information to let us see what you are looking at.

 
If you speak with CO employees that have been affected, they'd be deeply in disagreement with your analysis.
 
If you read the APFA agreement, and past updates during their negotiations, you'd see they took the positives from each side and combined then into their current TA.
 
It is clear that many on these pages are all about being negative about the TWU, AA and most things not AMFA...but for the majority of the leveheaded folks out there it seems very apparent the Company is more interested in getting deals done before the Single Operators Certificate than anything else. You might as well start screaming now, but it is faily apparent there will be a fast track to negotiations with an agreement for arbitration after a certain time frame is met without a deal.
 
The APFA came out of that agreement on a positive note. The APA is on a similar track and we'll see if they also come out with a significant upgrade to their CBA, such as the APFA.

 

[NYer]

A few of your posts made a little sense, until I got to this one.
 
If you think that in a few months, that we have the same uniform, the same ID badge, working in the same station, on the same nasty tire change on a cold winter night, and you're going to have a nice 401K, and I'm going to be stuck with the IAMNPF, you are delusional and wacko.
 
Not going to happen.  I won't let it.
 
I want what you got, or you going to get stuck with mine.  That's what an alliance is all about.

 
We'll see....bookmark this post.

 

[whoop whoop]

NYer, first off, I am from sCAL. So I don't need to speak with anybody. I am living it. Second, we are not talking about the APFA, we are talking about the iam, TWU and teamsters.
 
I have a question for you. Why would the company want a deal done before getting a single operating certificate? UAL is doing just fine YEARS after they obtained theirs. Why would AA be any different. The teamsters told us the very same thing, the companies wallets is open, they want a deal done quick.....................   that was FOUR years ago.

 

[Bob Owens]

 

So you leave out that the other Alliance was put before the members before they went to the NMB  then say I leave out info?  You keep leaving out that the members gave their consent first, no such question has been put before either membership.
--What other Alliance do you speak of? The APA? The APFA?
 
I think I was pretty clear, the TWU is the only Union that has a legitimate showing of interest, the TWU should stay, the IAM should walk away. 
--I would bet the IAM and their Members would have a different take. So would the NMB if the IAM were forced to get the necessary to force a vote before the two unions. That, not your opinion, makes it a legitimate showing.
 
You also leave out that every elected TWU President from AA voted against the Alliance, and they were told that the TWU can't get out of it even if they wanted to. So as you try and paint resistance to the Alliance as some sort of AMFA conspiracy then explain why Presidents from Fleet Service would vote against it? Are they closet AMFA supporters as well in your book? 
--Who are these Presidents and when did this vote take place? Or do we take your word for it?
 
They don't want it because they know its a bad deal, a deal that was made to benefit the two unions and not the members who work at AA. 
--There dozens of Members that would disagree as they have taken advantage of the Preferential Hiring, which is made possible because of the Association.

 

The IBT-CWA Allaince, that was put to a vote before the membership, don't know why you are acting coy about that surely you knew that.
 
With the APFA and APA the other union did the right thing and just backed out.
 
Thats what the IAM needs to do, and we should negotiate a deal that would allow those in the IAMPF to remain so and convert our 401K match to at least a $2 contribution with a match up to 14% like the pilots.  
 
I doubt the IAM would be able to get the cards, obviously so do they, thats why they do not want to do it. 
 
I was told by my President, so you will have to take my word for it. 
 
So thousands should suffer because dozens were hired? The Association does not represent anybody at this time so obviously preferential hiring could have been agreed to without the Association. Don't the APA and APFA also have preferential hiring? If not there is nothing preventing them from doing what was done with us. 

 

[xUT]

Anyone whom thinks this iam/twu love fest/alliance is to benefit the "membership" should have their head examined to when they had a lobotomy.
The snake oil salesmen that keep defending this idiocy should be suspect.
JMHO

 

[Bob Owens]

 
If you speak with CO employees that have been affected, they'd be deeply in disagreement with your analysis.
 
If you read the APFA agreement, and past updates during their negotiations, you'd see they took the positives from each side and combined then into their current TA.
 
It is clear that many on these pages are all about being negative about the TWU, AA and most things not AMFA...but for the majority of the leveheaded folks out there it seems very apparent the Company is more interested in getting deals done before the Single Operators Certificate than anything else. You might as well start screaming now, but it is faily apparent there will be a fast track to negotiations with an agreement for arbitration after a certain time frame is met without a deal.
 
The APFA came out of that agreement on a positive note. The APA is on a similar track and we'll see if they also come out with a significant upgrade to their CBA, such as the APFA.

So I guess thats why they took away the flex week of vacation, you know the deal that allows those with less than 5 years to get two weeks of vacation like every other company in the country, out of pocket of course but at least they had the option to buy a break and also allowed the rest to have as much Vacation for length of service as pretty much everyone else? 
 
The APFA came out of negotiations with a 9% 401k contribution, the pilots a 14% match, we came out with 5.5%match, hands down the very worst deal by far.
 
The Pilots gave up $310 million in concessions and going in were well situated with their peers, they came out with 15% of the equity, TWU gave $320 million in concessions and got less than 5% of the equity, and the mechanics were already at the bottom.
 
Obviously this company feels differently about ground workers, especially mechanics. 
 
All I can say to my peers is don't go "above and beyond" for "below and behind". 

 

[Bob Owens]

Nyer, I am curious where you get your information from? It is so far from reality. The UA/CO merger actually has more changes on the UAL side. The teamsters basically carbon copied sCAL inferior contract and applied it to UAL. SFO just lost the rotating days where all had a piece of weekends to fixed days off where the highest few get to enjoy weekends with their families.
 
sCAL really has had no changes. Oh wait, sCAL took UALs jumpseat policy for A&P's. What is the policy you ask? NO JUMPSEAT!! So, the teamsters have applied and let the new UAL apply the worst of either side.
 
And, what makes you say it is more probable for the association to keep the positives from both sides? The teamsters are one entity and couldn't do it. What information do you have to show 2 different entities could or would keep the best from both sides? And, what makes you think the new AA would let you keep the best from both sides? From what I see, AA has walked over both unions with ease.
 
So please show us your information to let us see what you are looking at.

You are correct. Both the APA and APFA walked into negotiations with at least industry standard contracts with some industry leading things such as pension and SCOPE. They walked out still well situated among their peers. We went in at the very bottom and then lost our pension, retiree medical, work rules and benefits. The IAM then rolled over and let go of SECT 6 barging for a wage that was what we got in BK with full knowledge that we have a mid term wage adjustment that uses their wage as part of the Average, in other words guaranteeing that when we negotiate it will be with the lowest wage in the industry and no Sect 6. 
 
So far management has done nothing but antagonize ground workers by taking more stuff away and try to cheat us out of the matching funds in the pre funding accounts. 
 
Its clear that this management team respects the Pilots and FA's and has zero respect for its ground workers, and they will have even less respect for this sham of an Association. If any group can't afford to be stuck in a BS Alliance instead of a single Union its the mechanics. 

 

[Bob Owens]

Prove your IAM agreement is better than AA TWU.

Josh

The IAM agreement, which is their second agreement after US left BK EIGHT years ago is just slightly better in many respects than the TWU agreement. There is no doubt that the damage done to mechanics under Little/Videtich has put us at the very bottom of the industry. The IAM agreement has more Holidays, vacation, sick time, etc but still lags the rest of the industry in pretty much every respect. 

 

[Bob Owens]

We will keep hearing the bankruptcy excuse from 700 and the IAM err the alliance for the next decade at least...afterall no other airline filed twice is less than two years.

Josh

Problem is that US left BK eight years ago. They gave US another sell out contract despite the fact that US was out of BK to facilitate the merger and get more dues members. 

 

[Bob Owens]

 
And the biggest changes taking place in the UAL/CO merger is coming from the CO side. When you have two side fighting for one thing, it is rare to have benefits coming to both sides. With the Associations it is more probable to keep positives from each CBA and to co-exist. As an example, with the Association it is more probable they keep their IAMPF and we keep the 401K.

Ok so what happens to the TWU guys in BOS, PHL and DCA that will be forced into the IAM? Do they go into the IAMPF or stay with the 401K? What about the IAM folks in LGA, do they lose their IAMPF because they were forced into the TWU? 
 
The Alliance already stated that they want us all in the IAMPF. 
 
Two sides fighting each other vs one union? If its difficult when both are in the same union it can only be worse when they are in two different unions. Thats why both the Pilots and Flight Attendants went with one union, not two. Unlike the incident in 2006 between the TWU and IAM there was no violence and the Unions simply did what was good for the members. I won't argue that the Alliance certainly beats having people hospitalized and the Union paying out $800,000 but any deal should be whats better for the members, not whats better for the leaders of the Unions, clearly as hard as you try and spin it this deal is not because the members will benefit or desire this, its because Little and Buffy want it.  
 
If you believe the members want this then why not simply put it to a vote like the IBT/CWA did? 

 

[737823]

Problem is that US left BK eight years ago. They gave US another sell out contract despite the fact that US was out of BK to facilitate the merger and get more dues members.

Agreed so why does 700 keep defending that BS saying they were in bankruptcy? Even before/without the merger USAIR was recording record profits throughout much of 2011, 2012 and 2013 yet the IAM allowed them to kick the can down the road and get a garbage agreement.

Bob, do you think the TWU should call the alliance off? The TWU is the larger group the IAM should man up and walk away, like the TWU did at America West in 2006. The IAM left after TWA in 2001 without a fight, only after they sold the membership out to get the money they were owed.

Josh

 

[700UW]

Lets see the most important thing in any CBA is scope.
 
Lets see which is better, no farmout of line maintenance or AOG aircraft and 50% oh HMV billable hours must be done in-house or 35% of the total maintenance budget being allowed to be farmed out and there are waivers on that language to let PMAA farmout greater than the 35%?

 

[blue collar]

Lets see the most important thing in any CBA is scope.
 
Lets see which is better, no farmout of line maintenance or AOG aircraft and 50% oh HMV billable hours must be done in-house or 35% of the total maintenance budget being allowed to be farmed out and there are waivers on that language to let PMAA farmout greater than the 35%?

Not necessarily. Scope is important, but not the end all be all. In order to judge a cba, you need to take in all articles, and scope doesn't matter if you're poorly compensated.
I know I'd take my WN CBA any day over the US CBA.