TWU and IAM representation alliance vote

[OldGuy@AA]

Rumors keep getting better.  Today a union official who will not be named told people that they want to hurry up and get the joint agreement and they are expecting less benefits and meager raises and more outsourcing.  Also they expect medical premiums to go way up.  And the kicker was local 514 is expecting 800 layoffs in the fall.  Nice to see our local officials giving up already isn't it?

 

[BigMac]

Probably the same official that is going around saying we will be dropped by our health care providers and be on Obamacare if we don't vote for the alliance. It amazes me these idiots voting in idiots.

 

[WeAAsles]

Rumors keep getting better.  Today a union official who will not be named told people that they want to hurry up and get the joint agreement and they are expecting less benefits and meager raises and more outsourcing.  Also they expect medical premiums to go way up.  And the kicker was local 514 is expecting 800 layoffs in the fall.  Nice to see our local officials giving up already isn't it?

Alright I can't seem to add the picture that I wanted to so I'll just quote what it said.

Rumors are started by haters
Spread by fools, and
Accepted by idiots.

 

 

[OldGuy@AA]

ha

 

[Realityck]

Alright I can't seem to add the picture that I wanted to so I'll just quote what it said.

Rumors are started by haters
Spread by fools, and
Accepted by idiots.

 

 
 
Right on Brother!

 

[OldGuy@AA]

Insults?  

 

[DallasConehead]

Rumors keep getting better.  Today a union official who will not be named told people that they want to hurry up and get the joint agreement and they are expecting less benefits and meager raises and more outsourcing.  Also they expect medical premiums to go way up.  And the kicker was local 514 is expecting 800 layoffs in the fall.  Nice to see our local officials giving up already isn't it?

Well.. it may be a crappy rumor, but it sure sounds like what we will be getting. To expect anything more is crazy, especially form our broken down representation.

 

[OldGuy@AA]

Well.. it may be a crappy rumor, but it sure sounds like what we will be getting. To expect anything more is crazy, especially form our broken down representation.

I'm thinking since it did come from a union official it is intended to spread fear.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

I've seen dead guys on the IAM vote lists before, So why not... LOL

Travis you have as they would say "a wicked sense of humor". I dig the avatar.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

I'm thinking since it did come from a union official it is intended to spread fear.

It is nice to see you back on. You seemed to go quiet for a bit. 
 
Have you been seeing this around the base?

 

[MetalMover]

Rumors keep getting better.  Today a union official who will not be named told people that they want to hurry up and get the joint agreement and they are expecting less benefits and meager raises and more outsourcing.  Also they expect medical premiums to go way up.  And the kicker was local 514 is expecting 800 layoffs in the fall.  Nice to see our local officials giving up already isn't it?

The TWU threats and intimidation will undoubtedly increase tenfold now that they are in a hurry to get the alliance underway and possibly thwart another AMFA vote.
It's funny that they are warning of layoffs when on another thread here the rumor is they are bringing in 757/767 checks......
And you don't need a crystal ball to know that medical premiums will skyrocket.....AA mechanics don't have a lock on this issue.
Since no union reps have begun spewing their rhetoric at the line stations that I am aware of, then what we have here is the "business as usual" scare tactics at the bases.
 
I am amazed these lapdogs aren't booted out of office, let alone the hangars.

 

[Bob Owens]

Rumors keep getting better.  Today a union official who will not be named told people that they want to hurry up and get the joint agreement and they are expecting less benefits and meager raises and more outsourcing.  Also they expect medical premiums to go way up.  And the kicker was local 514 is expecting 800 layoffs in the fall.  Nice to see our local officials giving up already isn't it?

Medical Premiums up? Yes. Thanks to Don and the International in Negotiations the company presented how benefits at AA compared, not to how all other airlines, but other similar sized companies in other industries, you know where people work regular 9 to 5 jobs in climate controlled environments where the biggest danger is a paper cut or carpel tunnel syndrome. I objected to the change in tactics since every other comparison all through the talks was with a limited number of other carriers we needed to stay with that on Medical as well, because in our industry medical tends to be better. I threw out there that they didn't want to compare shift premiums between AA and other industries where they run anywhere from 10% to 50% vs the point-zero-two-eight percent(0.028%) to one=point  four eight percent (1.48%) that AA pays for working shifts that result in all sorts of health maladies such as Cancer, high blood pressure, heart disease etc. Yes Premiums are going up, we have the worst medical in the industry. 
 
Outsourcing? Well thats what they voted for. "Lets vote for outsourcing to save our jobs" is what they said in Tulsa. I don't get it. Since the agreement was ratified not one AMT has been hired in TULE. Only cleaners. 
 
That said I don't think we will see a big change as far as outsourcing OH, there really aren't a lot of options out there for NB and they admitted that in negotiations. The company has all the outsourcing they want, thanks to Don and those who voted YEs, and the lowest compensation on top of that.  Our headcount already below 8000 total Title I so probably around 6000 A&Ps (3360 of which are on the line). (Our A&P to aircraft ratio is much closer to other carriers than most think). AA can probably do it cheaper in house with a seasoned workforce that is very familiar with the equipment, but as that equipment goes away so will the jobs. Tulsa is down around 170 mechanics YOY without any additional layoffs. Thats around double the decline that was seen on the line and more than 591 and 567 combined. The Line hired 70 mechanics to replace those leaving, TULE has not replaced a single mechanic. From DOS to today only cleaners in TULE and AMTs on the line have been added, The decline on the line is due to the inability to attract talent because they have been backfilling, most of the line has blown their OT budgets.  If they have a layoff in Tulsa its more than likely an attempt to drive younger A&P s out to the line where they are needed,  New York needs 40 mechanics. I suspect that the younger mechanics in Tulsa, if there are any, would likely go to Spirit before they go to New York, $20/hr in Tulsa will keep you in a home, $35/hr will get you a basement apartment with four other guys in NY. So management has put themselves in a tough spot. The need to add headcount in MIA just made things worse as far as headcount in NY. They may find themselves running shorthanded elsewhere in the system just to prevent  de-staffing  the NE as mechanics transfer to lower cost areas. They really need the synergies of a single operating system to make up for the declining headcount, US' workforce is even older than ours, even with a crappy pension you can only work so long, Al Blackman is an anomaly, most of us won't even live to 87, let alone work at that age. Preventing the synergies of a combined workforce is pretty much the only leverage we have in negotiations for a joint contract, UALs joint agreement is still dragging on for three years, UAL still has a cushion of furloughs, we need to make sure we get full value for it.  The IAM already gave away half of that leverage by agreeing that we could do their work, thats another reason why we want nothing to do with an alliance with them. Lose that and the company has zero reason to bring us up to the rest of the industry with a single contract. 

 

[MetalMover]

Medical Premiums up? Yes. Thanks to Don and the International in Negotiations the company presented how benefits at AA compared, not to how all other airlines, but other similar sized companies in other industries, you know where people work regular 9 to 5 jobs in climate controlled environments where the biggest danger is a paper cut or carpel tunnel syndrome. I objected to the change in tactics since every other comparison all through the talks was with a limited number of other carriers we needed to stay with that on Medical as well, because in our industry medical tends to be better. I threw out there that they didn't want to compare shift premiums between AA and other industries where they run anywhere from 10% to 50% vs the point-zero-two-eight percent(0.028%) to one=point  four eight percent (1.48%) that AA pays for working shifts that result in all sorts of health maladies such as Cancer, high blood pressure, heart disease etc. Yes Premiums are going up, we have the worst medical in the industry. 
 
Outsourcing? Well thats what they voted for. "Lets vote for outsourcing to save our jobs" is what they said in Tulsa. I don't get it.
 
That said I don't think we will see a big change as far as outsourcing OH, there really aren't a lot of options out there for NB and they admitted that in negotiations. The company has all the outsourcing they want, thanks to Don and those who voted YEs, and the lowest compensation on top of that.  Our headcount already below 8000 total Title I so probably around 6000 A&Ps (3500 of which are on the line). (Our A&P to aircraft ratio is much closer to other carriers than most think). AA can probably do it cheaper in house with a seasoned workforce that is very familiar with the equipment, but as that equipment goes away so will the jobs. Tulsa is down around 170 mechanics YOY without any additional layoffs. Thats around double the decline that was seen on the line and more than 591 and 567 combined. The decline on the line is due to the inability to attract talent because they have been backfilling, most of the line has blown their OT budgets.  If they have a layoff in Tulsa its more than likely an attempt to drive younger A&P s out to the line where they are needed,  New York needs 40 mechanics. I suspect that the younger mechanics in Tulsa, if there are any, would likely go to Spirit before they go to New York, $20/hr in Tulsa will keep you in a home, $35/hr will get you a basement apartment with four other guys in NY. So management has put themselves in a tough spot. The need to add headcount in MIA just made things worse as far as headcount in NY. They may find themselves running shorthanded elsewhere in the system just to prevent  de-staffing  the NE as mechanics transfer to lower cost areas. They really need the synergies of a single operating system to make up for the declining headcount, US' workforce is even older than ours, even with a crappy pension you can only work so long, Al Blackman is an anomaly, most of us won't even live to 87, let alone work at that age. Preventing the synergies of a combined workforce is pretty much the only leverage we have in negotiations for a joint contract, UALs joint agreement is still dragging on for three years, UAL still has a cushion of furloughs, we need to make sure we get full value for it.  The IAM already gave away half of that leverage by agreeing that we could do their work, thats another reason why we want nothing to do with an alliance with them. Lose that and the company has zero reason to bring us up to the rest of the industry with a single contract. 

Good points....But the sheep would rather listen to the fear mongers...

 

[TRAVIS]

Travis you have as they would say "a wicked sense of humor". I dig the avatar.

It's the only thing I have that the IAM can't cut / trade / farm-out / misrepresent. LOL!! 

 

[WeAAsles]

Rumors keep getting better.  Today a union official who will not be named told people that they want to hurry up and get the joint agreement and they are expecting less benefits and meager raises and more outsourcing.  Also they expect medical premiums to go way up.  And the kicker was local 514 is expecting 800 layoffs in the fall.  Nice to see our local officials giving up already isn't it?

Alright let's discuss this "rumor" a little more since maybe a few people would like to give it legs?

First let's talk about this Union Official? Does this union official play golf with Doug Parker, Scott Kirby, Al Hemmenway or Jim Weel? Those are some of the names who would be able to give an impression of what they are going to ask for under the JCBA talks. Otherwise I'm not even sure that the IAM or TWU have even formed their committees yet for who is going to be a part of those negotiations.

The only thing that does make some sense would be raises. Next year we will all be going up to whatever the industry average is by comparison to Delta and United. So anything we gain above that will be up to you to decide if you consider it meager or not? If we gain the highest base wage over those other two airlines is that good enough or not? I'm sure many if you will say no since it won't match Fedex or UPS (Package delivery companies)

Less benefits? How much lower do you think we can go? Nah, doesn't make sense, sorry.

Medical. The IAM contracts currently have the lowest medical rates in the industry (Subsidized somewhat by part timers paying double the rate) Add to that though because of the merger we have a much greater amount of people who can be put under plans and that could even cause the rates to go down? Already if you look at Jetnet the company has announced plan changes that are an improvement over 2014. What the monthly charges will be we should know in a few weeks?

http://my.aa.com/en/home

As far as outsourcing. Stick with what Bob just posted.