TWU and IAM representation alliance vote

[TRAVIS]

I'll get the mop. Because you got wiped all over the forum floor. 

 

[700UW]

No you didn't refute anything company boy.

Josh

 

[Kev3188]

Who will break any ties the negotiating committee may have? No semantics please.

That's actually a very good question. Is this stuff not being rolled out to all of you? If not, why not?

 
 

Why do we have to explain or answer to ramp/fleet guys which this drive does not effect in any way.

You don't have to do anything if you really don't want to.

'Course, I could also ask the open question of why every.f**king.other.thread on this entire site becomes an AMFA-mercial, but I won't, because I know this is a cause important to many of you.
 
 

...many have asked 700UW and WeAAsle including myself to post just on general AA junk stay out of AMFA informational business since it does not effect them but they continue to post. gets old scanning thru all the nonsense to read a post of interest to maintenance.

Not gonna happen, and an unreasonable expectation anyway. It's an open board, and people like to talk about what they find interesting.
 
Speaking of which...

I'd like to support the idea of this association (and I respect the people advocating for it on this site), but I just can't. This goes against everything I know about labor ideals. Love the idea of new thinking/strategies, and love the idea of working together, but not like this, and not in it's current form.

Like I keep saying, 401k's= worker empowerment. That's an idea EVERYONE in this thread should agree on, even if we have differing ideas on how to get there.

P.S. I have a Subaru wagon. It's covered in stickers, most of which would likely make Vortilon spontaneously combust. Also, stereo doesn't work at all...On the bright side, it has a '76 ball on the antenna, so I got that going for me...

 

[Duke787]

It's amazing how underhanded the TWU is acting towards its members.

If we had the best contract you might assume that they are acting in our best interest, but we have the worst contract and the IAM negotiating with the largest airline negotiates a pay raise based on what Delta GIVES its mechanics who pay NO union dues!

I feel as though we the mechanics of USair and AA are suffering from the effects of union greed. Both the TWU and IAM can't negotiate a raise let alone industry leading but are dependent on management of one company and a different union of another, maybe we should just give our Union dues to delta!

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

That's actually a very good question. Is this stuff not being rolled out to all of you? If not, why not?

 
 

You don't have to do anything if you really don't want to.

'Course, I could also ask the open question of why every.f**king.other.thread on this entire site becomes an AMFA-mercial, but I won't, because I know this is a cause important to many of you.
 
 

Not gonna happen, and an unreasonable expectation anyway. It's an open board, and people like to talk about what they find interesting.
 
Speaking of which...

I'd like to support the idea of this association (and I respect the people advocating for it on this site), but I just can't. This goes against everything I know about labor ideals. Love the idea of new thinking/strategies, and love the idea of working together, but not like this, and not in it's current form.

Like I keep saying, 401k's= worker empowerment. That's an idea EVERYONE in this thread should agree on, even if we have differing ideas on how to get there.

P.S. I have a Subaru wagon. It's covered in stickers, most of which would likely make Vortilon spontaneously combust. Also, stereo doesn't work at all...On the bright side, it has a '76 ball on the antenna, so I got that going for me...

According to these youths that "mod" their car each sticker adds 10 horsepower. If you have as many stickers as you claim you may possibly have the fastest car on earth.

 

[southwind]

 
Southwind &  LaLeLuLiLo
 
A valid question and "YES" it should be out there, every one should know just what is going on and what it is going to take to get to our goal. transparency is what we the AMFA Organizers have preached.
 
But that decision is NOT mine, I have asked about that as well, put out the same type of questions to the Dallas guys who hold the information. I am even at odds with them over this and other things I think we should discuss with all.
 
Since Honesty is what your requesting, WHy since what I have read here you are NOT with AA or US so why do you care about my class and craft? Or what happens to the men/woman at AA?
 
700UW, WeAAsles and others aren't mechanics but are the biggest posters against AMFA here and WHY?  They post things to see if they can get the mechanics who post to bite and the take the thread off on some bs tangent about what ever.
 
Some of These threads were set up mostly by mechanics to get information out to have questions asked so we can share information to reach our goal of removing the TWU, and Now to prevent this association between the TWU/IAM. Why do we have to explain or answer to ramp/fleet guys which this drive does not effect in any way. Talking about clerk/cook and what ever has nothing to do with our AMFA drive.
 
If we switch to a different union why does it matter answer that?
 
many have asked 700UW and WeAAsle including myself to post just on general AA junk stay out of AMFA informational business since it does not effect them but they continue to post. gets old scanning thru all the nonsense to read a post of interest to maintenance.

While not all out pro-union here, sorry grew up in the airline industry, EAL, all the way back to my grandfather, Father and uncles and have seen the bad side of union representation.
AMT at DL here and if forced to be in a union, why not be in one that specifically represents your craft...AMFA.

 

[Kev3188]

According to these youths that "mod" their car each sticker adds 10 horsepower. If you have as many stickers as you claim you may possibly have the fastest car on earth.

I should be so lucky! There are golf carts out there that are faster...
 
 

AMT at DL here and if forced to be in a union, why not be in one that specifically represents your craft...AMFA.

Nice use of the NRTW's code words. No one's gonna "force" you to do anything. Should the day come where AMFA's on the DL property, you will either choose to join, choose to be a dues objector, or choose to seek employment elsewhere.

 

[southwind]

I should be so lucky! There are golf carts out there that are faster...
 
 

Nice use of the NRTW's code words. No one's gonna "force" you to do anything. Should the day come where AMFA's on the DL property, you will either choose to join, choose to be a dues objector, or choose to seek employment elsewhere.

Sorry if you don't understand code. Not my problem.
Voicing my opinion here, that if your already represented by a union , that your not happy with, which seems to be very evident here, why not vote in one specific to your craft....sorry you don't like it!
Why don't you start a new union that only represents ramp employees...I and I'm sure many others wouldn't have a problem with that!

 

[southwind]

I should be so lucky! There are golf carts out there that are faster...
 
 

Nice use of the NRTW's code words. No one's gonna "force" you to do anything. Should the day come where AMFA's on the DL property, you will either choose to join, choose to be a dues objector, or choose to seek employment elsewhere.

Hmm...kinda sounds like the advice I gave you concerning the fact DL ramp is not unionized, and if being in a union is a priority to you, maybe you need to find employment with a company who has a union....just sayin'

 

[Bob Owens]

I have refuted bob over and over, bob has been shown to be wrong about Section 1167, bankruptcy and the RLA.
 
I have posted how bob used wrong information about the IAM and US negotiations, and yet he hasnt even replied to it from yesterday.
 
Go run and support the closet AMFA supporter, he can post under his own name yet he hides about his amfa loyalties and he sucks off the TWU and takes his ST salary and only turns a wrench on OT, yet he is an officer and works OT, which is discouraged.

 
Work OT?? I guess you could say I do. On Thursday I got to LGA at 0430, and left there at 2300. But I'm not paid OT for that. 
 
Wrong about 1167? Wrong about BK? Wrong about the RLA? How so? 
 
You support the authoritarian culture of the IAM where the Union tells the members what they want.  I don't, I feel that we are adults and can make our own decisions, what we should expect from our Union is accurate information and a plan to make things better, not be in full retreat for 15 years with no plan to recover what was lost.   
 
I support having recall in the bylaws. Serving as an officer in the union is a privilege not a right or entitlement earned by mindlessly supporting every decision made by the unions bosses. 
 
I support transparency and accountability.  We post the full spreadsheet from Quickbooks on our website so our members can review the finances when ever they want. If they want more detail such as viewing receipts and individual expense reports all they have to do is contact their section chairman and we can set up an online meeting where we do a screen share so they can see what they want. Does your IAM make Financial reports available at any time to the members or can they only look at them at the Union hall? 
 
I support the truth, you support withholding information and misleading people in order to get them to vote a way they would not vote if they had all the facts. Throwing out that other associations have been put in place but leaving out the fact that the two unions put it to a membership vote first. 
 
I support democracy. Thats why we have on line voting on motions and elections. Not like the IAM where members have to run a gauntlet to vote. We recognize that most of our members need multiple sources of income which restricts their ability to participate. In some votes we have had in excess of 90% participation.  
 
We have incorporated many of the things that our members say they want, things that AMFA has, in Local 591. Things that make sense. Things that don't make sense we left out. We remain far from being an organization with the structure required to negotiate an industry leading contract, there are still deep structural flaws and we have been trying to get those flaws corrected. Flaws that are unique to the AATD and not systemic to the TWU as a whole. The IAM is more deeply flawed than the TWU AATD. Those flaws may be tolerable when the leadership gets good contracts, but they blew it big time by rolling over and giving the company a concessionary deal with bottom of the industry wages and ZERO profit sharing EIGHT years after exiting BK, 12 years after first giving concessions in BK. 
 
Do many of the values we put into 591 coincide with why many of our members say they want AMFA? Yes. Does that make me a closet AMFA supporter?  Not anymore than your support and unquestioning obedience makes you a fascist. So, are you a fascist because you support absolute obedience and support of the IAM hierarchy? Republicans called Roosevelt a closet Communist because he pushed through labor laws and Social security and bank reforms. Maybe it was simply the right thing to do, just like recall, transparency, democracy etc. For some reason those things are heresy to you. 
 
My peers elected me to do what I've been doing, trying to fix this organization,  we have made a little progress, the Alliance would be a huge setback. If I get to the point where I feel we can't make any more progress then I'd quit and maybe support something else. Being in the TWU is a means to an end, that end being getting a good contract. I'm a mechanic first, being a TWU member/officer is a result of me being hired by AA before UAL called. I was a mechanic before I became a TWU member and if I left AA I'd still be a mechanic but no longer a TWU member. Fixing the Union means getting it to get us good contracts. One of the reasons why I'm against this Alliance is because it takes two deeply flawed organizations,  the two worst contracts in the industry for mechanics, and creates a two headed monster with Zero accountability to the members. Trying to fix one organization is hard, trying to fix two at the same time is simply not worth the effort, we would be better off to seek representation elsewhere than accept the Alliance. This bullshit of you will pay dues to us but the contract belongs to the Alliance thats staffed with people you don't get to pick is completely unacceptable. 

 

[TRAVIS]

I'll go get the mop..

 

[southwind]

Work OT?? I guess you could say I do. On Thursday I got to LGA at 0430, and left there at 2300. But I'm not paid OT for that. 
 
Wrong about 1167? Wrong about BK? Wrong about the RLA? How so? 
 
You support the authoritarian culture of the IAM where the Union tells the members what they want.  I don't, I feel that we are adults and can make our own decisions, what we should expect from our Union is accurate information and a plan to make things better, not be in full retreat for 15 years with no plan to recover what was lost.   
 
I support having recall in the bylaws. Serving as an officer in the union is a privilege not a right or entitlement earned by mindlessly supporting every decision made by the unions bosses. 
 
I support transparency and accountability.  We post the full spreadsheet from Quickbooks on our website so our members can review the finances when ever they want. If they want more detail such as viewing receipts and individual expense reports all they have to do is contact their section chairman and we can set up an online meeting where we do a screen share so they can see what they want. Does your IAM make Financial reports available at any time to the members or can they only look at them at the Union hall? 
 
I support the truth, you support withholding information and misleading people in order to get them to vote a way they would not vote if they had all the facts. Throwing out that other associations have been put in place but leaving out the fact that the two unions put it to a membership vote first. 
 
I support democracy. Thats why we have on line voting on motions and elections. Not like the IAM where members have to run a gauntlet to vote. We recognize that most of our members need multiple sources of income which restricts their ability to participate. In some votes we have had in excess of 90% participation.  
 
We have incorporated many of the things that our members say they want, things that AMFA has, in Local 591. Things that make sense. Things that don't make sense we left out. We remain far from being an organization with the structure required to negotiate an industry leading contract, there are still deep structural flaws and we have been trying to get those flaws corrected. Flaws that are unique to the AATD and not systemic to the TWU as a whole. The IAM is more deeply flawed than the TWU AATD. Those flaws may be tolerable when the leadership gets good contracts, but they blew it big time by rolling over and giving the company a concessionary deal with bottom of the industry wages and ZERO profit sharing EIGHT years after exiting BK, 12 years after first giving concessions in BK. 
 
Do many of the values we put into 591 coincide with why many of our members say they want AMFA? Yes. Does that make me a closet AMFA supporter?  Not anymore than your support and unquestioning obedience makes you a fascist. So, are you a fascist because you support absolute obedience and support of the IAM hierarchy? Republicans called Roosevelt a closet Communist because he pushed through labor laws and Social security and bank reforms. Maybe it was simply the right thing to do, just like recall, transparency, democracy etc. For some reason those things are heresy to you. 
 
My peers elected me to do what I've been doing, trying to fix this organization,  we have made a little progress, the Alliance would be a huge setback. If I get to the point where I feel we can't make any more progress then I'd quit and maybe support something else. Being in the TWU is a means to an end, that end being getting a good contract. I'm a mechanic first, being a TWU member/officer is a result of me being hired by AA before UAL called. I was a mechanic before I became a TWU member and if I left AA I'd still be a mechanic but no longer a TWU member. Fixing the Union means getting it to get us good contracts. One of the reasons why I'm against this Alliance is because it takes two deeply flawed organizations,  the two worst contracts in the industry for mechanics, and creates a two headed monster with Zero accountability to the members. Trying to fix one organization is hard, trying to fix two at the same time is simply not worth the effort, we would be better off to seek representation elsewhere than accept the Alliance. This bullshit of you will pay dues to us but the contract belongs to the Alliance thats staffed with people you don't get to pick is completely unacceptable.

Sounds to me like there is only one answer.... AMFA.

 

[JABORD]

 
Work OT?? I guess you could say I do. On Thursday I got to LGA at 0430, and left there at 2300. But I'm not paid OT for that. 
 
Wrong about 1167? Wrong about BK? Wrong about the RLA? How so? 
 
You support the authoritarian culture of the IAM where the Union tells the members what they want.  I don't, I feel that we are adults and can make our own decisions, what we should expect from our Union is accurate information and a plan to make things better, not be in full retreat for 15 years with no plan to recover what was lost.   
 
I support having recall in the bylaws. Serving as an officer in the union is a privilege not a right or entitlement earned by mindlessly supporting every decision made by the unions bosses. 
 
I support transparency and accountability.  We post the full spreadsheet from Quickbooks on our website so our members can review the finances when ever they want. If they want more detail such as viewing receipts and individual expense reports all they have to do is contact their section chairman and we can set up an online meeting where we do a screen share so they can see what they want. Does your IAM make Financial reports available at any time to the members or can they only look at them at the Union hall? 
 
I support the truth, you support withholding information and misleading people in order to get them to vote a way they would not vote if they had all the facts. Throwing out that other associations have been put in place but leaving out the fact that the two unions put it to a membership vote first. 
 
I support democracy. Thats why we have on line voting on motions and elections. Not like the IAM where members have to run a gauntlet to vote. We recognize that most of our members need multiple sources of income which restricts their ability to participate. In some votes we have had in excess of 90% participation.  
 
We have incorporated many of the things that our members say they want, things that AMFA has, in Local 591. Things that make sense. Things that don't make sense we left out. We remain far from being an organization with the structure required to negotiate an industry leading contract, there are still deep structural flaws and we have been trying to get those flaws corrected. Flaws that are unique to the AATD and not systemic to the TWU as a whole. The IAM is more deeply flawed than the TWU AATD. Those flaws may be tolerable when the leadership gets good contracts, but they blew it big time by rolling over and giving the company a concessionary deal with bottom of the industry wages and ZERO profit sharing EIGHT years after exiting BK, 12 years after first giving concessions in BK. 
 
Do many of the values we put into 591 coincide with why many of our members say they want AMFA? Yes. Does that make me a closet AMFA supporter?  Not anymore than your support and unquestioning obedience makes you a fascist. So, are you a fascist because you support absolute obedience and support of the IAM hierarchy? Republicans called Roosevelt a closet Communist because he pushed through labor laws and Social security and bank reforms. Maybe it was simply the right thing to do, just like recall, transparency, democracy etc. For some reason those things are heresy to you. 
 
My peers elected me to do what I've been doing, trying to fix this organization,  we have made a little progress, the Alliance would be a huge setback. If I get to the point where I feel we can't make any more progress then I'd quit and maybe support something else. Being in the TWU is a means to an end, that end being getting a good contract. I'm a mechanic first, being a TWU member/officer is a result of me being hired by AA before UAL called. I was a mechanic before I became a TWU member and if I left AA I'd still be a mechanic but no longer a TWU member. Fixing the Union means getting it to get us good contracts. One of the reasons why I'm against this Alliance is because it takes two deeply flawed organizations,  the two worst contracts in the industry for mechanics, and creates a two headed monster with Zero accountability to the members. Trying to fix one organization is hard, trying to fix two at the same time is simply not worth the effort, we would be better off to seek representation elsewhere than accept the Alliance. This bullshit of you will pay dues to us but the contract belongs to the Alliance thats staffed with people you don't get to pick is completely unacceptable. 

Yo Bob, I've taken great pride in my ability to be a good judge of character and this just reenforced it for me. It's one thing for some of us to pursue an ability to play the 'great Communicator' yet not many can display genuine fortitude. You nailed it buddy and from what I've seen from GP and the the 591 posse, you guys have elevated yourselves to an example that has played well to our local representation here at ORD and I would think elsewhere. In my opinion, the madness displayed toward M&E by the International along with the constant adversarial strategy practiced by AA management at all levels brings out the best in you guys. I believe I speak for many when I say thanks and keep up the good work.

 

[Kev3188]

 

Sorry if you don't understand code. Not my problem.

I understand it quite well- when you know what you're looking for, it leaps off the page.

I just can never tell if you're being played for a useful idiot by the RTW crowd, or if you actually "get it," and are intentionally carrying their water for them.

At any rate, none of that changes what I wrote earlier- should AMFA wind up on the DL property, you will not be "forced" to do anything. Any action you take will be of your own choosing.
 

Voicing my opinion here, that if your already represented by a union , that your not happy with, which seems to be very evident here, why not vote in one specific to your craft....sorry you don't like it!

Actually I do "like" it.

Ya know, you always respond to what I write, but it appears you never actually pay attention. Didja miss all the times where I've advocated for AA AMT's (or any group, really) to vote in whichever union will result in the most membership engagement? That will get them away from the damage Little & co have caused, and that the TWU ATD continues to cause for organized labor?

 

[southwind]

 

I understand it quite well- when you know what you're looking for, it leaps off the page.

I just can never tell if you're being played for a useful idiot by the RTW crowd, or if you actually "get it," and are intentionally carrying their water for them.

At any rate, none of that changes what I wrote earlier- should AMFA wind up on the DL property, you will not be "forced" to do anything. Any action you take will be of your own choosing.
 

Actually I do "like" it.

Ya know, you always respond to what I write, but it appears you never actually pay attention. Didja miss all the times where I've advocated for AA AMT's (or any group, really) to vote in whichever union will result in the most membership engagement? That will get them away from the damage Little & co have caused, and that the TWU ATD continues to cause for organized labor?

Not being played by anyone. Again, I will state, was raised in a family involved with unions and have seen the good and the "BAD" and from that will form my opinion of them. If that's not good enough for you, so be it!
 
So your saying , if DL went AMFA, I would not be forced to join, in order to retain employment?
 
Noticed, you never mentioned AMFA, in your post, though you did manage to bash the union who opposes yours, what gives?