TWU and IAM representation alliance vote

[Rogallo]

But, but, but, but, but, but, but, but...................
 
Damn, can't argue those points!

 

[Bob Owens]

That is not permitted by law.

Show me the law that prohibits the IAM, through the Alliance from negotaiting with the company to have all our funds from the AA plan put into the IAMPF. Not saying it isnt so, just saying I dont see it. Pension plans have been moved before, remember our pension is not in the PBGC, AA still owns it. They just transferred our 401K from JP Morgan to some company I never heard of. 

 

[700UW]

Well the NMB handbook says something different.

The NMB Representational Manual doesnt cover what is taking place with the Association.
 
So know you are a lawyer too?
 
How come Fleet and Stores had a better negotiating committee bob?
 
Why do you lie and post misinformation about what happened at US and negotiations?
 
Funny how you conveniently forgot what was asked and posted to you.
 
WeAA was right, your a dinosaur, you like to complain, you hide in the closet about being an AMFA supported, yet you never try to better yourself and not put up with AA and the TWU, yet you suck on the TWU TeaT!

 

[Bob Owens]

Learn to educate yourself.
 
The NMB has declared SCS for the pilots, the flight attendants and the CWA/IBT Association which is an Alliance.
 
The SCS has nothing to do with the there being an alliance, it constitutes a single transportation system.
 
Dont let the facts get in your way, once again.

Omission. Or in other words not letting the facts get in your way.
 
 You left out the fact that they had an internal membership vote, the TWU/IAM membership did not, the only vote on the TWU side was at the Presidents council where all the Presidents voted against it. They know if they put it before the membership the membership will vote it down, so they have been desperately trying to maneuver it into place without a vote or with a misleading, illegal ballot. 

 

[700UW]

Show me the law that prohibits the IAM, through the Alliance from negotaiting with the company to have all our funds from the AA plan put into the IAMPF. Not saying it isnt so, just saying I dont see it. Pension plans have been moved before, remember our pension is not in the PBGC, AA still owns it. They just transferred our 401K from JP Morgan to some company I never heard of. 

Show me where you can?
 
The IAMNPF will not take on a plan that is billions short, and go read ERISA, and you know Tom Regan, contact him and ask him.
 
Your plan is frozen and underfunded, they would breach their fiduciary responsibilities if they could take your frozen plan.
 
And your plan is different than the IAMNPF, the rules and payouts, so its not permissible nor legal, yet you try and stir the crap for your own personal agenda.
 
Does Lombardo know you are an AMFA supporter hiding in the closet and scared to come out?

 

[Bob Owens]

Show me where in the representational manual that covers this situation.

Whats the situation? Two contracts need to be negotiated into one, the members have to choose who will be the representative, the representative with the most members is automatically assumed to be the bargaining agent for the entire group, the other representative has to get to a total of 50% plus one of the combination of incumbent members and members from the bigger union who signed cards for them. Dont you see? The NMB is supposed to ensure that the members pick their representation, that's what gives the govt the legal basis to force the members to adhere to what the representative says. From the memberships perspective this is a representation election like many others, the fact that the two formed an Alliance without the consent of the members does not diminish the right of the members to choose. None of us are members of this Alliance, we never voted on it, never paid dues to it. I most certainly never authorized the IAM to be my representative, and for the first two years they would be. The manual covers it, they want to have an election, the Alliance, with the blessings of the IAM and TWU filed to represent us. Would it have been any different if the IBT filed with the blessings of Jim Little two years ago?  They want us to change representation, according to the rules of the NMB they have to get 50%+1 of us to sign cards for the Alliance to be on the Ballot.. 

 

[Bob Owens]

Show me where you can?
 
The IAMNPF will not take on a plan that is billions short, and go read ERISA, and you know Tom Regan, contact him and ask him.
 
Your plan is frozen and underfunded, they would breach their fiduciary responsibilities if they could take your frozen plan.
 
And your plan is different than the IAMNPF, the rules and payouts, so its not permissible nor legal, yet you try and stir the crap for your own personal agenda.
 
Does Lombardo know you are an AMFA supporter hiding in the closet and scared to come out?

Thats not how the law works, how it works is you can do it as long as there is no law against it. 
 
AA has over $10 billion in cash, they could fund it and turn it over to the IAMPF and take that liability off their balance sheets.
 
Plans change. I was on track to get $4k a month, now its $2k. If it was a negotiated deal it could be changed, then you would come here and say we wanted that, just like you claimed that the US mechanics wanted a bottom of the industry contract with ZERO profit sharing. 
 
 
Hmm, so far as I review this thread you have repeatedly come out and complained about how people make personal attacks on you when they cant debate the issue with facts. I guess your post is a perfect example of that now isnt it?

 

[Bob Owens]

If its not in there the NMB has their discretion.
 
Once again, show me where an alliance situation is covered in the NMB representational manual.
 
Typical, you cant refute or debate.

Once agin the question is the same, Who is going to be chosen(by the members) as the representative organization. The TWU has testified in court that the Alliance is a new representative that will oust the IAM and TWU. that has to be voted on. 

 

[Bob Owens]

You dont get it.
 
This isnt a vote between two unions as it states in the NMB Manual, now is it?
 
Gee AMFA gave up their certification after the merger without the members voting, isnt that a change in certification?

Doesnt matter what you call it, its a choice of who represents us, you can call it a Union, and Alliance, an Association, or the Boy Scouts of America. So its either the TWU or whomever can get 50% +1 to be on the Ballot. If the Association wants to be our new representation let them get 50% +1. 

 

[Bob Owens]

When I hired on there was already a Union on premises. When YOU hired on there was already a Union on premises. When ALL of us hired on there was already a Union on premises. Yet we ALL still hired on knowing that.

NEWSFLASH! I do not want to risk losing being a part of a Union because of some law that I also had nothing to do with! And one that was written by ANTI UNION Politicians to boot!

You want to change out your Union FINE! Then go get those cards signed to make it happen. But don't put ME at the mercy of what YOU want by putting us ALL at the risk of having nothing in the end.

I'll wait for the decision from the NMB on whether we have an election or not?




 

Yes but the Union did not hire you or us. Collectively the workers before us hired them, they still work for us as long as we collectively agree to that. You seem to have forgotten that the Union does not own the membership. We are not theirs to be bartered away either, if there is to be a change in organizations that represent us we get a say in that. 

 

[WeAAsles]

Yes but the Union did not hire you or us. Collectively the workers before us hired them, they still work for us as long as we collectively agree to that. You seem to have forgotten that the Union does not own the membership. We are not theirs to be bartered away either, if there is to be a change in organizations that represent us we get a say in that. 

Not necessarily Bob since the Government dictates the "Rules" that we need to follow (NMB). Yep it's just like George Carlin said a long time ago. "They own you"

 

[Bob Owens]

I believe we explained it. The two unions had an internal vote and presented the results to the NMB. The NMB accepted the positive results in favor of the Association. That is public record. We on the other hand did not have an internal vote to date. But you knew that already. 

700, are you there? this post sent you away for two days, did you ever respond to it?

 

[Bob Owens]

Not necessarily Bob since the Government dictates the "Rules" that we need to follow (NMB). Yep it's just like George Carlin said a long time ago. "They own you"

Whatt???  So you are saying that the Union owns us, and we have two bosses, one that pays us and one that we pay? 

 

[Bob Owens]

Let me reiterate, GP got played. He and the rest of the hate Little/Int'l/AMFA lover team are bargaining with someone who has been playing the political game a lot longer than you. Even Bob said Lombardo said he would "talk" about and Int'l position.
 

Thats not what i said at all, gary said he wasnt interested in an Itnl position, that he had a job and all he was interested in was settling the lawsuit to insure that what happened in 2012 could not happen again. 

 

[Bob Owens]

The B scale concept was not created by the TWU. The APA at AA brought in the exact same thing and AMFA counsel Martin Seham bragged about negotiating the B scale in for the pilots. Get your facts straight.
 
Deicing and pushbacks have been done by other AMTs at many airlines around the same time as the TWU. It was post deregulation.
 
The TWU Int'l had been trying to bring the building cleaners over to the higher wage Title III wage scale but their brothers and sisters in Title III were against it. The 2010 TA was going to move them over to the higher wage utility pay scale but we the membership voted that down too. We are the membership and WE voted to screw them.
 
The OSM/SRP classification was and is an attempt to hang on to jobs in-house at wages higher than those people would be making at low wage MROs. Plus it provides and place to bump if you get laid off as an AMT. Also the other unions eventually decided overhaul jobs of any kind would be better off being outsourced entirely which means making zero pay versus making much more plus earning seniority and the ability to transfer to a higher wage AMT job.

APA may have started Bscale but they are still at the top of the legacies in pay, we took b scale and went to the bottom. So if we have the OSMs to hold on to work that would have been outsourced then why are our A&Ps at the bottom of the industry as well?