TWU and IAM representation alliance vote

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Listen, with a mass of people, a group can do any damn thing they want, it may not be legal, but don't tell me that we can't do this or can't do that.  

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/44439782/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/t/judge-orders-wash-state-longshoremen-halt-illegal-tactics/#.U_5NlPldUSU
 
Proven.

 

[WeAAsles]

Let me translate your post:
Keep working for the industry's lowest wages to preserve all those wonderful outstanding what few remaining AA jobs exist in Tulsa.  
 
Vote for the TWU/IAM Alliance so that management can outsource all it wants (reducing jobs) while paying the line AMTs industry-lagging wages (in places like NYC, BOS, PHL, MIA, SFO, LAX and other expensive cities).
 
If anyone buys that bullshit they deserve what they get.

Having lived and worked in LGA, DFW and now MIA, I have always supported geographic pay or a COLA. Too many have argued against it with me but they're also the same ones who live in places that they don't need it.

Corporate greed and individual greed both wear the same suit IMO.

 

[bigjets]

How many TWU members think the TWU for our next CBA, will negotiate for an equity stake, then as the company gives it to us the TWU will hold back 10% of it for legal reasons?

Not saying they would do it, but if that is what I think of the TWU then the TWU has an image problem amongst everything else.

 

[Overspeed]

AFW and MCI were closed because AA did not need the capacity anymore. AA was almost the same size it is today in the early 1990s and had only TULE. No union can force a company to maintain facilities that it no longer needs. Even with job security clauses, attrition without backfills would allow the company to reduce head count.
 
Outsourcing did not start with the TWU. Check your facts. Continental started that under Lorenzo.
 
TWU had the worst CBA in the last ten years? Yeah you're right. The NWA imposed CBA was so much better in 2004. So was the CBA that was negotiated in BK at UA when they sent all but three lines of airframe overhaul to China, Korea, and US MROs. So were all those CBAs that did away with pension credited service while the TWU CBA kept that flowing until BK.

 

[Realityck]

AFW and MCI were closed because AA did not need the capacity anymore. AA was almost the same size it is today in the early 1990s and had only TULE. No union can force a company to maintain facilities that it no longer needs. Even with job security clauses, attrition without backfills would allow the company to reduce head count.
 
Outsourcing did not start with the TWU. Check your facts. Continental started that under Lorenzo.
 
TWU had the worst CBA in the last ten years? Yeah you're right. The NWA imposed CBA was so much better in 2004. So was the CBA that was negotiated in BK at UA when they sent all but three lines of airframe overhaul to China, Korea, and US MROs. So were all those CBAs that did away with pension credited service while the TWU CBA kept that flowing until BK.

 
 
I guess these must be a figment of our imaginations?
 
 
 
          United Airlines – 2002               Length of Bankruptcy – 38 months
                                                               Job Cuts – 30% fewer employees
                                                                      Wage / Benefit Cuts:
                                                               Terminated defined-benefit Pension
                                                               Pay: Pilots, Mech & Grd Crew = Avg - 35%
                                                                        Flt Attn =  Avg - 20% 
 
       US Airways – 2002 & 2004         Length of Bankruptcy – 7mo & 12.5 mo      
                                                               Job Cuts – 32% fewer employees
                                                                    Wage / Benefit Cuts:
                                                               Terminated Pensions
                                                               Pay: Mech & Grd Crew = Avg - 30%
                                                                        Pilots = Avg - 21%  Flt Attn = Flat
 
       Delta Airlines – 2005                  Length of Bankruptcy – 19.5 mo
                                                               Job Cuts – 17% fewer employees      
                                                                             Wage / Benefit Cuts:
                                                               Terminated Pilot Pension Plan
                                                               Pay: Pilots = Avg - 38%  Flt Attn, Mech &
                                                                        Grd Crew = Avg - 18% to - 21%
 
       Northwest Airlines – 2005          Length of Bankruptcy – 20.5 mo
                                                               Job Cuts – 17%
                                                                    Wage / Benefit Cuts:
                                                               Pay: Pilot, Gr Crew, Flt Attn = Avg - 8% - 15%
                                                                        Mech = Avg - 41%

 

[Bob Owens]

Outsourcing work to china or Central America has nothing to do with unions (as all union and non union shops have suffered from out sourcing ) but has everything to do with globalization.

Weeell, not really. Weak labor unions is a factor in overseas OH. For many years it was illegal, the aircraft had to be maintained in US certified shops located in the US, then Bush the first did away with that. Unions did nothing. Unions lacked the will or the power and the cash to buy the right politicians. Cant blame it all on Globalization, Globalization is not some inevitable phenomenon that cant be stopped, the drug companies have been pretty effective at making it illegal for US Citizens to buy pharmaceutical drugs from overseas. Globalization has been going on since the first humans migrated out of Africa. They have been able to put up trade barriers between individual citizens and foreign suppliers for stuff individuals are consuming, at least legal ones, so if the Gov't can do that then they most certainly can enforce restrictive standards on the airlines that load millions of unsuspecting passengers on their planes every year.

A Union contract where the Line stands shoulder to shoulder with OH could restrict foreign outsourcing as well as legislation. I believe that both SWA and UAL and UPS have restrictions on what work can be sent Overseas, we don't, thats on us. Thank Don and the YES voters for that. Unfortunately those who have lead our Union have resorted to pitting OH against the numerically smaller line group in order to get the company much lower total costs. Our language actually encourages Overseas outsourcing because its based on cost not hours. If they outsource overseas they can outsource even more hours of work for less cost than outsourcing Domestically.

Currently there is a bigger problem than overseas OH , Airline Union contracts are given second class status in Bankruptcy, this has been challenged after the fact by a few Unions but never by the Labor movement, or even the Airline labor movement as a whole. Instead they seem focused on trying to change the whole bankruptcy process, one that will never happen because Wall Street and the banks love the way these Bankruptcies turn out. The only people who lost anything in the AA bankruptcy were the workers with long term concessions, everyone else was made 100% whole, or even better.
Despite the fact that this second class status presents more of a danger to airline workers careers than the continued certification of foreign repair stations, the Labor movement as a whole prefers to not even discuss it. Specifically, what I'm talking about is the exclusion of Airlines from Sect 1167 of the Bankruptcy code and subsequent rulings by obviously paid off judges that allow Airlines, and only airlines to impose permanent new contracts in Bankruptcy that extend beyond bankruptcy. To appease OH some Unions are pushing for the government to require random drug testing and background checks, like thats really going to change anything. Whats really sad is that Unions should be against anyone being subjected to "random" drug tests. To confiscate, without cause, peoples bodily fluids to search for the presence of drugs is really a human rights violation. We shouldn't be saying that since they do it to us here in America they have to do it in countries that have more respect for peoples rights.

Sorry for the drift.

No to the Alliance, NO to the IAMPF, no to having the heads of the IAM and TWU pick who represents us in Negotiations, No to having the iAM run the Alliance the first two years, yes to us being in one Union.

 

[TWU informer]

AFW and MCI were closed because AA did not need the capacity anymore. AA was almost the same size it is today in the early 1990s and had only TULE. No union can force a company to maintain facilities that it no longer needs. Even with job security clauses, attrition without backfills would allow the company to reduce head count.
 
Outsourcing did not start with the TWU. Check your facts. Continental started that under Lorenzo.
 

 
Incredible. Just read your history of postings and use common logic.
 
According to you, when a AMFA represented group is subjected to cyclical forces of the industry, then the union failed to stop it.
 
When a TWU represented group faces that same, then NO UNION can stop it.
 
You are truley just a simple TWU stooge ate up with dumbass. Or to put it more politely, a 100% TWU Zealot

 

[700UW]

It was changed under Reagan when Elizabeth Dole was Secretary of Transportation.

 

[1AA]

Weeell, not really. Weak labor unions is a factor in overseas OH. For many years it was illegal, the aircraft had to be maintained in US certified shops located in the US, then Bush the first did away with that. Unions did nothing. Unions lacked the will or the power and the cash to buy the right politicians. Cant blame it all on Globalization, Globalization is not some inevitable phenomenon that cant be stopped, the drug companies have been pretty effective at making it illegal for US Citizens to buy pharmaceutical drugs from overseas. Globalization has been going on since the first humans migrated out of Africa. They have been able to put up trade barriers between individual citizens and foreign suppliers for stuff individuals are consuming, at least legal ones, so if the Gov't can do that then they most certainly can enforce restrictive standards on the airlines that load millions of unsuspecting passengers on their planes every year.

A Union contract where the Line stands shoulder to shoulder with OH could restrict foreign outsourcing as well as legislation. I believe that both SWA and UAL and UPS have restrictions on what work can be sent Overseas, we don't, thats on us. Thank Don and the YES voters for that. Unfortunately those who have lead our Union have resorted to pitting OH against the numerically smaller line group in order to get the company much lower total costs. Our language actually encourages Overseas outsourcing because its based on cost not hours. If they outsource overseas they can outsource even more hours of work for less cost than outsourcing Domestically.

Currently there is a bigger problem than overseas OH , Airline Union contracts are given second class status in Bankruptcy, this has been challenged after the fact by a few Unions but never by the Labor movement, or even the Airline labor movement as a whole. Instead they seem focused on trying to change the whole bankruptcy process, one that will never happen because Wall Street and the banks love the way these Bankruptcies turn out. The only people who lost anything in the AA bankruptcy were the workers with long term concessions, everyone else was made 100% whole, or even better.
Despite the fact that this second class status presents more of a danger to airline workers careers than the continued certification of foreign repair stations, the Labor movement as a whole prefers to not even discuss it. Specifically, what I'm talking about is the exclusion of Airlines from Sect 1167 of the Bankruptcy code and subsequent rulings by obviously paid off judges that allow Airlines, and only airlines to impose permanent new contracts in Bankruptcy that extend beyond bankruptcy. To appease OH some Unions are pushing for the government to require random drug testing and background checks, like thats really going to change anything. Whats really sad is that Unions should be against anyone being subjected to "random" drug tests. To confiscate, without cause, peoples bodily fluids to search for the presence of drugs is really a human rights violation. We shouldn't be saying that since they do it to us here in America they have to do it in countries that have more respect for peoples rights.

Sorry for the drift.

No to the Alliance, NO to the IAMPF, no to having the heads of the IAM and TWU pick who represents us in Negotiations, No to having the iAM run the Alliance the first two years, yes to us being in one Union.

To comment on your last part of your post.
 
We can not have one voice, one union, one vote, one agenda, one leader, one direction, one representative, one contract, one idea with either or both of the TWU and IAM. The Alliance agreement further directs our future away from this ideology.

 

[swamt]

 
Incredible. Just read your history of postings and use common logic.
 
According to you, when a AMFA represented group is subjected to cyclical forces of the industry, then the union failed to stop it.
 
When a TWU represented group faces that same, then NO UNION can stop it.
 
You are truley just a simple TWU stooge ate up with dumbass. Or to put it more politely, a 100% TWU Zealot

Exactly.  Keep encouraging him to keep posting...

 

[Overspeed]

Absolute distortion TWU Informer, this is what was stated in a format even you can understand.

1. Outsourcing can be slowed and even stopped in the aviation maintenance business. The TWU has been more successful than any other union. AA still has more overhaul work in-house than any other airline.
2. The AMFA strategy has yet to be proven effective at keeping overhaul in-house. AS? Gone. NW? Fought and lost. WN? One additional line added contractually for a total of four AO lines for over 600 aircraft and no EO which is far less than what is at AA even after BK.

 

[cheetah]

Hay overreach, AA has three OH lines right now WN has four.

 

[Overspeed]

Uh, no. Look at the dock plan

 

[TWU informer]

 
Absolute distortion TWU Informer, this is what was stated in a format even you can understand.

1. Outsourcing can be slowed and even stopped in the aviation maintenance business. The TWU has been more successful than any other union. AA still has more overhaul work in-house than any other airline.
2. The AMFA strategy has yet to be proven effective at keeping overhaul in-house. AS? Gone. NW? Fought and lost. WN? One additional line added contractually for a total of four AO lines for over 600 aircraft and no EO which is far less than what is at AA even after BK.

 

 
Well hell, let's all work for minumum wage, no insurance, and no pension and create the largest maintenance work force in the world. And you would call that a success.

 

[cheetah]

I'm looking at the docks