TWU and IAM representation alliance vote

[swamt]

Did I ask you?

You do nothing but lie and post misinformation and spread Anti-worker venom

Hey you didn't ask me either, but how does it feel???

 

[swamt]

 
And AMFA couldn't turn that around. They're supposed to raise the AMT's...or is this just about pay rates.

Like I have already told you.  AMFA has more than doubled the number of mechanics since they took over from the ibt.  AMFA has more than doubled the in house maint and componets work.  Without one single lay-off, rif, reduction.  How many heads have the TWU lost at AA "AND" was able to farm out all that work too??  18,000 to 7500, great numbers there chief...

 

[swamt]

Why dont you come clean on who you really are?
 
I have never lied about my situation, I worked the raid last summer, thats all.

Not a clue on what you are asking here, you need to be more spacific.  If you were not addressing me ignore this post...

 

[swamt]

I'm glad that so far you are happy with your level of representation. All 2000 something of you. I also enjoy reading the extremely detailed updates of how your contract negotiations are going. I give AMFA a lot of credit in that area and think it's absolutely one area where they shine.

But there were some updates where things were said that disturbed me if I was a member. Gary Kelly in one update told your members and I quote "We want to be an ULTRA low cost airline" another one was the most recent update where SWA management says directly that they don't feel you have the support from your group to basically accomplish the tasks of the goals set by your negotiators?

Can you elaborate further on that and how long have you currently been in negotiations? Seems like you still have a ton of Articles left open and untouched still to go?

First of all your numbers are way off yet again.
Second you are only wanting the negative parts to come out to the public on here as you only ask for the negative items.  I will not answer your questions as you are simply on a mission to try and discredit AMFA in any way shape or form.  You want a contract nego update go get it from the National web site.  You let us worry about all the internal stuff with the company.  The company will always post negative items to try and get the membership to bite.  SWA will never be an ULCC, they are too big to reduce themselves to that type of catagory.  Carry on sir...

 

[WeAAsles]

First of all your numbers are way off yet again.
Second you are only wanting the negative parts to come out to the public on here as you only ask for the negative items.  I will not answer your questions as you are simply on a mission to try and discredit AMFA in any way shape or form.  You want a contract nego update go get it from the National web site.  You let us worry about all the internal stuff with the company.  The company will always post negative items to try and get the membership to bite.  SWA will never be an ULCC, they are too big to reduce themselves to that type of catagory.  Carry on sir...

I have been reading those updates already. Since this directly affects you I was wondering if you can tell me what the positives have been? There is no mission, just looking for your opinions of facts written by your own negotiators?

 

[lineguy43]

 
That strike was called, and if you speak with their Members, with the full knowledge it would bring the airlines to its knees. They made the call that they would not let Lorenzo do what he did to Continental to Eastern. Their fight was personal and not about getting wage increases, unlike NWA....If it would have been just about wage increases then it was a bad call.
 
The NWA situations was markedly different and the strategy failed. The Members did authorize the strike vote, but they were not allowed to vote on the last offer before the strike and two subsequent offers during the strike. Eventually they came back on the airline's terms.
 

 
Hey Einstein I lived the AMFA strike at NW. Do you really think bringing back a vote before the strike would have meant something? The final offer was to eliminate 53% of the membership and a 23% paycut for those who remained. Now do the math do really think that vote would have any chance of passing the membership if it would have been offered ? Being that it would take 50% +1 to pass that would mean that some of us would have had to vote out our own jobs if we had voted yes and one of them would have been me. I had 17 yrs at that time and was in the 53% to be cut.. Come back when you know what you are talking about

 

[TWU informer]

 
 

Most times the only reason a member becomes active is because they are angry. But then they direct their anger in the wrong direction. They wind up blaming their union for everything and not the Companies, their lobbyists, Politicians and the laws they write and pass that are the real enemies to them and their families. Basically way too many seem to be out of touch where they need to direct their anger and fight.
 
There is a solid reason why the members are out of touch. Unions like the TWU have made the "union" and the "member" two seperate institutions. Even the no-strike no-lock out clause reads "neither the union nor it's members"? Thats contract language and please tell us the difference between the union and the members? Hell the membership even voted 3 times not to build a new union hall in Tulsa, but by God there is one now. Every Constitutional Convention the membership has attempted to obtain recall of officers, voting on side letters, direct election of international officers. All that happened is those advocating these changes have been offered International Appointments to stop advocating change. Yes, Bought Off! Even Local 100 New Directions were bought off.
 
So what you want me to get involved and try to get bought off also?
Not going to happen. You want me involved? Change the TWU Constitution so that my invovlement can be backed up with law.
 
I agree that Unions need to consolidate and form partnerships to grow stronger just like corporations are doing. But isolating your Class and Craft away from the struggles of every blue color, downtrodden person is the wrong answer.  
 
Isn't that what the AFL-CIO is suppose to been sonce 1955? The Partnership? The AFL and the CIO merged in 1955, that is when the downward spiral started. When dumbasses decided that instead of membership unity all we needed was money for political campaigns and lobbying.
 
So you believe to insulate and isolate is your best solution. Not really the answer to shut yourselves off from the rest of the world. Currently AMFA does not have the financial ability or political clout to fight back against all of the things being thrown at your group. You can get the money sure if everyone hopped in but it takes a long time to make and build political connections to have your issues be put in the spotlight. How much longer do you think you have to get that done?
 
It appears to me the both the Pilots (APA) and Flight Attendants (APFA) have been far more successful being independent and craft unionist.
 
Oh NO NO NO. I absolutely want change. I expect change and I'm screaming for change. The old way of doing things is not working. But change can come from within if more people get involved and DEMAND it.
 
Now you need to go take the history lesson. Call TWU International and ask for a copy of the TWU Consitutional Convention Minutes from 1989, 1993, 1997, 2001, 2005, and 2009. And those don't even show the underhanded political appointing taking place to support NO CHANGE. Then be sure and tell me how your going to DEMAND AND GET CHANGE? Signing Cards and voting out the TWU is easier than getting change from within, and even that is difficult with fear mongering stooges believing they can demand and get change without looking at the history of previous attempts.
 
Not entirely and there has been a downward spiral for the last 30 years. But I have been seeing a revival. Haven't you been watching? It starts with grassroots and organizing anyone you can find who's getting kicked around. Look at your current union and maybe you'll see that they have been focusing on organizing now. Mostly small groups here and there but they are growing now and not shrinking. Read that TWU Express you get in the mail instead of ignoring it and throwing it away in your desire to ignore everything from them.
 
Revival My Ass. You are drinking to kool-aid and still believe the proganda news. Funny!
 
Absolutely not. You're being decimated. The American public doesn't seem to care where their plane is fixed as long as it's flying. I'm really afraid that it's going to have to take a few major accidents before people wake up to the real dangers they're in? America has become a reactive Nation as opposed to the proactive one it once was. By all metrics we are now a Second World nation and in further decline. Read the Rise and fall of the Roman Empire and the parallels are eerily similar.
 
Wow.....Really? Always some lame hope or excuse that you ignorant bastards place all your faith. BS

 
Change is beyond needed and very long overdue. I just don't ideologically agree that AMFA is that change your group needs. Maybe if it had been successful 30 years ago it would be where it needs to be to have the clout to shine spotlights on your issues but I don't honestly feel now that it has enough time to get there.
 
Go ahead and try. If you don't take the appointment yourself, enough of your fellow change advocates will and you will be standing on the island alone.....again. From what I hear, the appointment tool has been used very recently by the new Grand Appointed Leader himself.
 
It may sound cliche to you but get involved in what you already have. Become a true leader within the structure and stop worrying about having your own leather chair and what your participation is doing for you. And don't be afraid to be flexible to other people's idea's of what might work and maybe giving them a shot. Be open minded to listening to everyone and don't paint people into corners of one side vs the other. None of us are each others enemies and there are no sides to trying to get to where we all need to go.
 
You go read the Minutes of the past Constitutional Conventions come up with a plan to stop the appointments to prevent support for change. Bring the plan to me, I will hear you out then. But right now, I have heard your exact same BS time and time again and already know the outcome.

Start with the grassroots area of your organization and try to bring everyone up. If you can help others that wave should start to bring you back up as well.

Of course that is BS. No one is going to get anyone or anything if you don't get involved. Other people can't be the one's always trying to put up the fight for you. YOU get back what YOU put in.
 
Again, produce a plan that hasn't already been tried and failed to create change. Bring me your plan and I will hear you out. But you best go read some history first.

 

[TRAVIS]

Sorry I went to sleep at 12:30 so didn't see your response till now. You need to be a little patient sometimes there Brother.

It's amazing that you guys keep saying that I'm lying except I'm the only one who has been putting out my information with LINKS as proof of the things I'm saying. Those LINKS that I'm providing when it comes to information make my argument more credible than people who are only expressing their own INDIVIDUAL opinion over information.

I just responded to TWU Informer with what is my OPINION. If you look further back in the thread I posted FACTS. Those were all conveniently and as expectedly ignored. FACTS are sometimes a very inconvenient truth when they don't particularly fit the agenda at hand.

Now WeAAsles you know you were trying to bait me to get something to twist a little.
And for your info if you read the reply I never pointed directly at you and said you are out right lying.
You told me to (sell) AMFA to you and I was pointing out the way things are done by other unions in half truths twisting fact to mislead members and YES the IAM and TWU do just this.
FACT go look at any Union Bulletin Board at work IAM/TWU and you will see all the misleading and twist and half-truths to try to mislead or confuse the members.
 
This is my Quote: as if i was selling it to you and how we get cards signed as you requested.
(In other words you ( I ) point out the facts and put them in front of someone with out the half truths and flat out lies and you ( I ) don't use BS treats.
You ( I ) give them the info the tools to look for them self.
You ( I ) ask one simple question Do You Think Your Union Is Doing What You Pay Them For.)
 
SO YOUR WORD GAMES DON'T WORK ON ME JEDI.
So Go Find A New Twist.... LOL

 

[TRAVIS]

 

 
 

Most times the only reason a member becomes active is because they are angry. But then they direct their anger in the wrong direction. They wind up blaming their union for everything and not the Companies, their lobbyists, Politicians and the laws they write and pass that are the real enemies to them and their families. Basically way too many seem to be out of touch where they need to direct their anger and fight.
 
There is a solid reason why the members are out of touch. Unions like the TWU have made the "union" and the "member" two seperate institutions. Even the no-strike no-lock out clause reads "neither the union nor it's members"? Thats contract language and please tell us the difference between the union and the members? Hell the membership even voted 3 times not to build a new union hall in Tulsa, but by God there is one now. Every Constitutional Convention the membership has attempted to obtain recall of officers, voting on side letters, direct election of international officers. All that happened is those advocating these changes have been offered International Appointments to stop advocating change. Yes, Bought Off! Even Local 100 New Directions were bought off.
 
So what you want me to get involved and try to get bought off also?
Not going to happen. You want me involved? Change the TWU Constitution so that my invovlement can be backed up with law.
 
I agree that Unions need to consolidate and form partnerships to grow stronger just like corporations are doing. But isolating your Class and Craft away from the struggles of every blue color, downtrodden person is the wrong answer.  
 
Isn't that what the AFL-CIO is suppose to been sonce 1955? The Partnership? The AFL and the CIO merged in 1955, that is when the downward spiral started. When dumbasses decided that instead of membership unity all we needed was money for political campaigns and lobbying.
 
So you believe to insulate and isolate is your best solution. Not really the answer to shut yourselves off from the rest of the world. Currently AMFA does not have the financial ability or political clout to fight back against all of the things being thrown at your group. You can get the money sure if everyone hopped in but it takes a long time to make and build political connections to have your issues be put in the spotlight. How much longer do you think you have to get that done?
 
It appears to me the both the Pilots (APA) and Flight Attendants (APFA) have been far more successful being independent and craft unionist.
 
Oh NO NO NO. I absolutely want change. I expect change and I'm screaming for change. The old way of doing things is not working. But change can come from within if more people get involved and DEMAND it.
 
Now you need to go take the history lesson. Call TWU International and ask for a copy of the TWU Consitutional Convention Minutes from 1989, 1993, 1997, 2001, 2005, and 2009. And those don't even show the underhanded political appointing taking place to support NO CHANGE. Then be sure and tell me how your going to DEMAND AND GET CHANGE? Signing Cards and voting out the TWU is easier than getting change from within, and even that is difficult with fear mongering stooges believing they can demand and get change without looking at the history of previous attempts.
 
Not entirely and there has been a downward spiral for the last 30 years. But I have been seeing a revival. Haven't you been watching? It starts with grassroots and organizing anyone you can find who's getting kicked around. Look at your current union and maybe you'll see that they have been focusing on organizing now. Mostly small groups here and there but they are growing now and not shrinking. Read that TWU Express you get in the mail instead of ignoring it and throwing it away in your desire to ignore everything from them.
 
Revival My Ass. You are drinking to kool-aid and still believe the proganda news. Funny!
 
Absolutely not. You're being decimated. The American public doesn't seem to care where their plane is fixed as long as it's flying. I'm really afraid that it's going to have to take a few major accidents before people wake up to the real dangers they're in? America has become a reactive Nation as opposed to the proactive one it once was. By all metrics we are now a Second World nation and in further decline. Read the Rise and fall of the Roman Empire and the parallels are eerily similar.
 
Wow.....Really? Always some lame hope or excuse that you ignorant bastards place all your faith. BS

 
Change is beyond needed and very long overdue. I just don't ideologically agree that AMFA is that change your group needs. Maybe if it had been successful 30 years ago it would be where it needs to be to have the clout to shine spotlights on your issues but I don't honestly feel now that it has enough time to get there.
 
Go ahead and try. If you don't take the appointment yourself, enough of your fellow change advocates will and you will be standing on the island alone.....again. From what I hear, the appointment tool has been used very recently by the new Grand Appointed Leader himself.
 
It may sound cliche to you but get involved in what you already have. Become a true leader within the structure and stop worrying about having your own leather chair and what your participation is doing for you. And don't be afraid to be flexible to other people's idea's of what might work and maybe giving them a shot. Be open minded to listening to everyone and don't paint people into corners of one side vs the other. None of us are each others enemies and there are no sides to trying to get to where we all need to go.
 
You go read the Minutes of the past Constitutional Conventions come up with a plan to stop the appointments to prevent support for change. Bring the plan to me, I will hear you out then. But right now, I have heard your exact same BS time and time again and already know the outcome.

Start with the grassroots area of your organization and try to bring everyone up. If you can help others that wave should start to bring you back up as well.

Of course that is BS. No one is going to get anyone or anything if you don't get involved. Other people can't be the one's always trying to put up the fight for you. YOU get back what YOU put in.
 
Again, produce a plan that hasn't already been tried and failed to create change. Bring me your plan and I will hear you out. But you best go read some history first.

 

+10 I'll Go Get The Mop and Bucket.!!!!

 

[WeAAsles]

 

 
 

Most times the only reason a member becomes active is because they are angry. But then they direct their anger in the wrong direction. They wind up blaming their union for everything and not the Companies, their lobbyists, Politicians and the laws they write and pass that are the real enemies to them and their families. Basically way too many seem to be out of touch where they need to direct their anger and fight.
 
There is a solid reason why the members are out of touch. Unions like the TWU have made the "union" and the "member" two seperate institutions. Even the no-strike no-lock out clause reads "neither the union nor it's members"? Thats contract language and please tell us the difference between the union and the members? Hell the membership even voted 3 times not to build a new union hall in Tulsa, but by God there is one now. Every Constitutional Convention the membership has attempted to obtain recall of officers, voting on side letters, direct election of international officers. All that happened is those advocating these changes have been offered International Appointments to stop advocating change. Yes, Bought Off! Even Local 100 New Directions were bought off.
 
So what you want me to get involved and try to get bought off also?
Not going to happen. You want me involved? Change the TWU Constitution so that my invovlement can be backed up with law.

Good points with very little emotional statements. And I did make a motion already to try and change the constitution but it didn't go anywhere because some Locals (yours) and other members didn't support and follow through with it. And YOU chose whether or not you want or can be bought off.
 
 
I agree that Unions need to consolidate and form partnerships to grow stronger just like corporations are doing. But isolating your Class and Craft away from the struggles of every blue color, downtrodden person is the wrong answer.  
 
Isn't that what the AFL-CIO is suppose to been sonce 1955? The Partnership? The AFL and the CIO merged in 1955, that is when the downward spiral started. When dumbasses decided that instead of membership unity all we needed was money for political campaigns and lobbying.

Seems to me at least on the surface that the AFL/CIO recognizes that it has ignored the membership somewhat and that has led to member apathy. But you don't see that they are now trying to rectify that and have become more grass roots? Have you been watching?
 
 
So you believe to insulate and isolate is your best solution. Not really the answer to shut yourselves off from the rest of the world. Currently AMFA does not have the financial ability or political clout to fight back against all of the things being thrown at your group. You can get the money sure if everyone hopped in but it takes a long time to make and build political connections to have your issues be put in the spotlight. How much longer do you think you have to get that done?
 
It appears to me the both the Pilots (APA) and Flight Attendants (APFA) have been far more successful being independent and craft unionist.

They have done fairly well in consideration that no one really has done well in the last decade. ALL have taken their hits. But AMFA has not done well in comparison? That's something you guys need to ask yourselves why and strategize to correct if you want it so bad.
 
 
Oh NO NO NO. I absolutely want change. I expect change and I'm screaming for change. The old way of doing things is not working. But change can come from within if more people get involved and DEMAND it.
 
Now you need to go take the history lesson. Call TWU International and ask for a copy of the TWU Consitutional Convention Minutes from 1989, 1993, 1997, 2001, 2005, and 2009. And those don't even show the underhanded political appointing taking place to support NO CHANGE. Then be sure and tell me how your going to DEMAND AND GET CHANGE? Signing Cards and voting out the TWU is easier than getting change from within, and even that is difficult with fear mongering stooges believing they can demand and get change without looking at the history of previous attempts.

It seems like "maybe" you guys spend more time and effort trying to get change then you do putting yourselves out their more to demand it from within? And don't have to look at the convention minutes to agree with you that there has been way too much underhanded political appointing for my tastes as much as yours.
 
 
Not entirely and there has been a downward spiral for the last 30 years. But I have been seeing a revival. Haven't you been watching? It starts with grassroots and organizing anyone you can find who's getting kicked around. Look at your current union and maybe you'll see that they have been focusing on organizing now. Mostly small groups here and there but they are growing now and not shrinking. Read that TWU Express you get in the mail instead of ignoring it and throwing it away in your desire to ignore everything from them.
 
Revival My Ass. You are drinking to kool-aid and still believe the proganda news. Funny!

I don't drink Kool Aid, I drink water. It's you who are not seeing it because you are not an active participant in it. It's happening all over the US in the fight to "Raise the Wage" grown out of the "Occupy" movement and the desire for the disparity between rich and poor to stop being so massive and growing.

Maybe you need to get out of your house and join in?
 
Absolutely not. You're being decimated. The American public doesn't seem to care where their plane is fixed as long as it's flying. I'm really afraid that it's going to have to take a few major accidents before people wake up to the real dangers they're in? America has become a reactive Nation as opposed to the proactive one it once was. By all metrics we are now a Second World nation and in further decline. Read the Rise and fall of the Roman Empire and the parallels are eerily similar.
 
Wow.....Really? Always some lame hope or excuse that you ignorant bastards place all your faith. BS

You do know that you begin to lose your debate when you need to get emotional and start resorting to names. You have been reading about our crumbling infrastructure and educational proficiency I hope? Other Nations are leaving us in the dust. Here have a look at this link to give yourself a real eye opener.

http://rankingamerica.wordpress.com/

 
Change is beyond needed and very long overdue. I just don't ideologically agree that AMFA is that change your group needs. Maybe if it had been successful 30 years ago it would be where it needs to be to have the clout to shine spotlights on your issues but I don't honestly feel now that it has enough time to get there.
 
Go ahead and try. If you don't take the appointment yourself, enough of your fellow change advocates will and you will be standing on the island alone.....again. From what I hear, the appointment tool has been used very recently by the new Grand Appointed Leader himself.

Nothing wrong with starting out standing on an Island alone. If you have the fortitude of your convictions people will start to gravitate towards you. It starts by not bending on your principles and convictions and letting greed be your master.
 
 
It may sound cliche to you but get involved in what you already have. Become a true leader within the structure and stop worrying about having your own leather chair and what your participation is doing for you. And don't be afraid to be flexible to other people's idea's of what might work and maybe giving them a shot. Be open minded to listening to everyone and don't paint people into corners of one side vs the other. None of us are each others enemies and there are no sides to trying to get to where we all need to go.
 
You go read the Minutes of the past Constitutional Conventions come up with a plan to stop the appointments to prevent support for change. Bring the plan to me, I will hear you out then. But right now, I have heard your exact same BS time and time again and already know the outcome.

That plan and road are already written into your TWU constitution. You just have to garner enough support for people to go along with the direction you want them to follow. The direction is easy, it's the support that's hard.

Start with the grassroots area of your organization and try to bring everyone up. If you can help others that wave should start to bring you back up as well.

Of course that is BS. No one is going to get anyone or anything if you don't get involved. Other people can't be the one's always trying to put up the fight for you. YOU get back what YOU put in.
 
Again, produce a plan that hasn't already been tried and failed to create change. Bring me your plan and I will hear you out. But you best go read some history first.

Again here is your plan. "Start with the grassroots area of your organization and try to bring everyone up. If you can help others that wave should start to bring you back up as well."

But if you've already doomed it to failure in your own mind then of course there is no point in even summoning an attempt.
 

 

 

[WeAAsles]

+10 I'll Go Get The Mop and Bucket.!!!!

Dude you really make yourself look like an ass every time you write this. At least I hope you realize that?

 

[WeAAsles]

Now WeAAsles you know you were trying to bait me to get something to twist a little.
And for your info if you read the reply I never pointed directly at you and said you are out right lying.
You told me to (sell) AMFA to you and I was pointing out the way things are done by other unions in half truths twisting fact to mislead members and YES the IAM and TWU do just this.
FACT go look at any Union Bulletin Board at work IAM/TWU and you will see all the misleading and twist and half-truths to try to mislead or confuse the members.
 
This is my Quote: as if i was selling it to you and how we get cards signed as you requested.
(In other words you ( I ) point out the facts and put them in front of someone with out the half truths and flat out lies and you ( I ) don't use BS treats.
You ( I ) give them the info the tools to look for them self.
You ( I ) ask one simple question Do You Think Your Union Is Doing What You Pay Them For.)
 
SO YOUR WORD GAMES DON'T WORK ON ME JEDI.
So Go Find A New Twist.... LOL

I see ZERO links within your answer to corroborate whatever it is you are trying to attempt to call truths? Again what is this? You are giving me fluff pieces here. Substantiate your claims and sell your product to the readers on here that you want to convince to support your organization.

Cold hard facts shouldn't be twist-able. If they are I guess they aren't actually facts then?

Sell your product!!!!!!

 

[Kev3188]

I know you are.. You are one of the level headed ones on here and have my respect. 

thank you.

 

[Kev3188]

 

 
 
 
 
 
No truer words Kev!
 
Instead of picking each others pocket, we should support wage increases for 'everybody'.
Not taking from one group for the pennies that corporate will put in their pockets.
 
 
Maybe some day people will actually get this and realize it's "US" against "THEM" instead of "US against "US"...
Take Care,
B) xUT

+1000000


We should be so lucky!

If you're interested in working for real change for America's working class, please (re)read xUT's post. If you're cool with the status quo, keep on keepin' on....

 

[MetalMover]

 
And AMFA couldn't turn that around. They're supposed to raise the AMT's...or is this just about pay rates.

Was that their responsibility? To force the company to IN SOURCE?
ALL employees at SWA are amongst the best paid in the industry. 
And their AMT's are way ahead of us under the TWU in all aspects. Not just wages. 
Once again you are twisting the facts. NO ONE lost their jobs at SWA due to outsourcing. They have always outsourced. 
Did the other unions on the property turn the outsourcing around? Or is that AMFA's sole responsibility? More maintenance work adds jobs to M&R.