TWU and IAM representation alliance vote

[ThirdSeatHero]

You want to disprove so try.
 
PS you wont be able too, as the DOL still classifies A&Ps as unskilled labor.

 
700 - You have already posted where the information can be obtained, yet as simple as it should be you continue to refuse to back up your statement.
 
Now, in your post above you have attempted to lay the onus on another poster to disprove your statement rather than you backing it up.
 
I have politely asked you twice to provide a link to prove your statement, which have gone unanswered so now I will pass the onus back to you in the manner you did above.
 
 
 
The DOL doesn't still classify aircraft mechanics as unskilled labor  -  700, YOU ARE A LIAR.
 
Don't like it? Provide the link and prove me wrong.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

 
I'm not taking a position. The arguments on these pages was that with AMFA the Members vote on everything. The observation was then made that right before the strike took hold the Members of AMFA did not get to vote for the Last Best Offer, or two subsequent offers. It was decided by the leadership what would and what would not be voted on. That just contradicts the notion that AMFA allows everyone to vote for everything.
 
If there was a vote, it could very well have been a 100% no vote....but they didn't get that chance.

 
Arguing to absurdity - Thanks for emphasizing my point.

 

[TRAVIS]

Alright this was pretty good. You do say that you want the other organization as your personal opinion that you think they can do a better job for you though. So you want them based more so on an ideology than any tangible accomplishments.

I will say one thing in fairness to your cause. I do think on the TWU side that there should be a Maintenance Rep within the ATD rather than just two members from my class solely.

I was trying to use this as a tool for you to understand why I feel that my representation by the IAM is not working. After all this time and the contract I got was no better than a BK contract that the union pushed on the members as a bridge to the next.
I have already posted my opinion on this many times.
I feel the money I pay to the IAM to represent me is not worth putting any more money or time into.
I feel it's time to trade the union in for a new model one that work for me as I can see it is working for others.
So sooner has got here! Time for that UNION B CAR THAT'S WORKING FOR MY FRIEND!!!!!
 
FIRST and utmost you need to do your home work and find out who is getting what and why are you not.
 
It's like buying a car. If the car you bought quits working for you just after you get it paid for, And lets say it's a UNION A CAR but your best friend bought a UNION B CAR at the same time and his works for him for many years on down the road and you keep buying that same UNION A CAR and it keeps quitting on you and you are just throwing your money away and not getting what you paid for! You will sooner or later go buy the same UNION B CAR your friend has.
 
Representation It's What You Pay Them For.

 

[WeAAsles]

I was trying to use this as a tool for you to understand why I feel that my representation by the IAM is not working. After all this time and the contract I got was no better than a BK contract that the union pushed on the members as a bridge to the next.
I have already posted my opinion on this many times.
I feel the money I pay to the IAM to represent me is not worth putting any more money or time into.
I feel it's time to trade the union in for a new model one that work for me as I can see it is working for others.

Ok so I want to be clear here. Financially I see a huge difference between what you make and what AMFA Southwest makes. But they do have far far less members and that's why Southwest pays them more than you. Plus of course SWA has never been through BK and has only lost money one quarter in their entire history.

So you are saying that you want what they have knowing that the only way to get there is through giving up a ton of jobs?

You're ok with that and that's what you want correct?

 
So sooner has got here! Time for that UNION B CAR THAT'S WORKING FOR MY FRIEND!!!!!
 
FIRST and utmost you need to do your home work and find out who is getting what and why are you not.
 
It's like buying a car. If the car you bought quits working for you just after you get it paid for, And lets say it's a UNION A CAR but your best friend bought a UNION B CAR at the same time and his works for him for many years on down the road and you keep buying that same UNION A CAR and it keeps quitting on you and you are just throwing your money away and not getting what you paid for! You will sooner or later go buy the same UNION B CAR your friend has.
 
Representation It's What You Pay Them For.

 

[swamt]

I have been reading those updates already. Since this directly affects you I was wondering if you can tell me what the positives have been? There is no mission, just looking for your opinions of facts written by your own negotiators?

Read the updates.  There you've been updated.  Do I need to repeat for you like we do for WT?  C'mon man...

 

[swamt]

Excellent. Glad to hear it. A little Ramp Weasel such as myself shouldn't be able to convince you otherwise.

Now can we try again to get back to the topic between you and I?

Sell your product!!!!!

No sir!!! You sell the product for the alliance or the TWU you really want.  C'mon man, sell it!!!

 

[TRAVIS]

 

I was trying to use this as a tool for you to understand why I feel that my representation by the IAM is not working. After all this time and the contract I got was no better than a BK contract that the union pushed on the members as a bridge to the next.
I have already posted my opinion on this many times.
I feel the money I pay to the IAM to represent me is not worth putting any more money or time into.
I feel it's time to trade the union in for a new model one that work for me as I can see it is working for others.

Ok so I want to be clear here. Financially I see a huge difference between what you make and what AMFA Southwest makes. But they do have far far less members and that's why Southwest pays them more than you. Plus of course SWA has never been through BK and has only lost money one quarter in their entire history.
HERE WE GO. YOU SEEM TO HAVE TROUBLE WITH MATH AA MAKES MORE THAN SWA BY FAR.
So you are saying that you want what they have knowing that the only way to get there is through giving up a ton of jobs?
I'm Ashamed of you. YOU ARE NOT PULLING A IAM BS SCARE TACTIC ARE YOU WeAAsles??  AND WERE ARE THEM FACTS AND LINKS THAT SHOW THIS WILL COME TO PASS??? OR ARE YOU JUST LIKE ALL THE REST AND ONLY THINK IF THE ATM's LEAVE IT WILL CUT DOWN ON WHAT YOU THINK YOU WILL GET IN THE FUTURE FOR WAGES. VERY SELFISH OF YOU DON'T YOU THINK.
You're ok with that and that's what you want correct?
NOT EVEN CLOSE WeAAsles ONCE AGAIN YOU USE A IAM TWIST ON A  SCARE TACTIC OF A LAYOFF THAT YOU ARE FABRICATING WITCH MAKES IT A FALSE STATEMENT  AND WE KNOW WHAT A FALSE STATEMENT IS NOW DON'T WE MR. WeAAsles THATS RIGHT A LIE SHAME ON YOU.
 
I WILL TRY TO BETTER MY PROFESSION SO THE NEW AMT THAT COME AFTER ME HAVE A PROFESSION THAT IS WORTH COMING TOO AND NOT DESTROYED BY POOR REPRESENTATION BY UNIONS THAT TREAT US AS THEIR EMPLOYEES RATHER THAN THEM AS OURS AS IT SHOULD BE.
 
So sooner has got here! Time for that UNION B CAR THAT'S WORKING FOR MY FRIEND!!!!!
 
FIRST and utmost you need to do your home work and find out who is getting what and why are you not.
 
It's like buying a car. If the car you bought quits working for you just after you get it paid for, And lets say it's a UNION A CAR but your best friend bought a UNION B CAR at the same time and his works for him for many years on down the road and you keep buying that same UNION A CAR and it keeps quitting on you and you are just throwing your money away and not getting what you paid for! You will sooner or later go buy the same UNION B CAR your friend has.
 
Representation It's What You Pay Them For.

 

Now WeAAsles Say Its not so!! YOU Would not be Trying to use a BS SCARE TACTICS now would you???????
That would be some of that same BS 700 and the IAM uses..... or is one in the same........IS THAT YOU 700 IN A NEW SCREEN NAME??????

 

[NYer]

Looks like the AMFA guys get a reprieve asmisunderstandings between the TWU and IAM have been brought into the public light.
 
Dear President Buffenbarger:
 
I have read the letter of October 24, 2014 from Tim Klima, Airline Coordinator for IAM, to Garry Drummond, Air Transport Division Director for TWU. I must begin this letter by informing you that the letter filled me with disappointment, alarm, and even anger. I believe that, as I will detail below, it strikes a blow at the fundamental relationship that should exist between the IAM and TWU in the Joint Associations that have been established to represent classes and crafts of the new single carrier American Airlines employees. Mr. Klima’s appeal to TWU Local Presidents undermines the basic structure of these agreements, by appealing to local officers of TWU to undermine a decision made by the International leadership of TWU regarding meeting with IAM regarding joint activities of the two unions; in doing so, it raises the very disturbing prospect that such appeals to local officers and even members of TWU may characterize our ongoing relationship, and be applied to a range of differences of
opinion between the two International unions regarding relations with AA and other matters. I strongly believe that the ability of the Joint Associations to productively represent the classes or crafts of employees involved at AA requires that action be taken as soon as humanly possible to correct the fundamentally subversive thrust of Mr. Klima’s letter: this can best be accomplished, in accord with the spirit and the letter of the Joint Association agreements, by a meeting between me and you; but our lawyers should be instructed, pending such a meeting, to set up an arbitration date as provided for by the Joint Associations Agreements, to resolve this fundamental dispute should we be unable to.
 
The nature of the dispute should not require a lot of explanation. Our agreements are agreements between TWU and IAM; they do not provide for any sharing of members;they do not set up any sort of new labor organization with an existence independent of that of the two International Unions; and the structure of the Associations at all points looks to joint action between the two unions as embodied entirely by their International Presidents or their designees.There is no room in the agreement for politicking by one union among the other’s officers and members; particularly when designed to undermine the wishes of the International leadership of the other union. Undeniably, everything about the structure and the relationship set up by the Agreements is entirely antithetical to the appeal that Mr. Klima has made to TWU local Presidents to take action with the IAM independent of and contrary to the expressed policy and wishes of TWU.
 
The violation of our Agreement by Mr. Klima’s letter is so basic that it takes precedence over all the disputes set forth in Mr. Drummond’s letter of October 10, 2014 to Mr. Pantoja. Those disputes deal with important questions regarding the Agreements; but they cannot be said to go to the heart of it the way this one does. Indeed, Mr. Drummond’s suggestion that the specified issues be dealt with by you and me prior to going to arbitration is precisely how all disputes between the unions are to be resolved under the Agreement; not, as Mr. Klima would have it, by an appeal to the officers of the local unions who are part of TWU, accompanied by a general ridiculing of TWU’s position on issues whose resolution is supposed to be the realm of an arbitrator, not that of one side or the other exercising its self-interested judgment.
 
As I said above, the issue raised in Mr. Klima’s letter must be tackled directly, and as soon as possible before any other issue can be properly approached, since it implicates the entire way in which relations between our unions must be handled under our Joint Association Agreements. I look forward to hearing from you promptly on setting up a meeting between us to set this right, and to make certain that the violations embodied in Mr. Klima’s letter are not repeated. Absent resolution of the issue between us, which I believe should require neither a lot of time nor a lot of difficult thought-let us have our lawyers set up an arbitration to resolve the issue. Following that, we can again clear up the other issues between us, and set up joint efforts to deal with the company in away that maximizes our collective strength without compromising our institutional integrity.
 
Fraternally,
Harry Lombardo
International President

 

[swamt]

Looks like the AMFA guys get a reprieve asmisunderstandings between the TWU and IAM have been brought into the public light.
 
Dear President Buffenbarger:
 
I have read the letter of October 24, 2014 from Tim Klima, Airline Coordinator for IAM, to Garry Drummond, Air Transport Division Director for TWU. I must begin this letter by informing you that the letter filled me with disappointment, alarm, and even anger. I believe that, as I will detail below, it strikes a blow at the fundamental relationship that should exist between the IAM and TWU in the Joint Associations that have been established to represent classes and crafts of the new single carrier American Airlines employees. Mr. Klima’s appeal to TWU Local Presidents undermines the basic structure of these agreements, by appealing to local officers of TWU to undermine a decision made by the International leadership of TWU regarding meeting with IAM regarding joint activities of the two unions; in doing so, it raises the very disturbing prospect that such appeals to local officers and even members of TWU may characterize our ongoing relationship, and be applied to a range of differences of
opinion between the two International unions regarding relations with AA and other matters. I strongly believe that the ability of the Joint Associations to productively represent the classes or crafts of employees involved at AA requires that action be taken as soon as humanly possible to correct the fundamentally subversive thrust of Mr. Klima’s letter: this can best be accomplished, in accord with the spirit and the letter of the Joint Association agreements, by a meeting between me and you; but our lawyers should be instructed, pending such a meeting, to set up an arbitration date as provided for by the Joint Associations Agreements, to resolve this fundamental dispute should we be unable to.
 
The nature of the dispute should not require a lot of explanation. Our agreements are agreements between TWU and IAM; they do not provide for any sharing of members;they do not set up any sort of new labor organization with an existence independent of that of the two International Unions; and the structure of the Associations at all points looks to joint action between the two unions as embodied entirely by their International Presidents or their designees.There is no room in the agreement for politicking by one union among the other’s officers and members; particularly when designed to undermine the wishes of the International leadership of the other union. Undeniably, everything about the structure and the relationship set up by the Agreements is entirely antithetical to the appeal that Mr. Klima has made to TWU local Presidents to take action with the IAM independent of and contrary to the expressed policy and wishes of TWU.
 
The violation of our Agreement by Mr. Klima’s letter is so basic that it takes precedence over all the disputes set forth in Mr. Drummond’s letter of October 10, 2014 to Mr. Pantoja. Those disputes deal with important questions regarding the Agreements; but they cannot be said to go to the heart of it the way this one does. Indeed, Mr. Drummond’s suggestion that the specified issues be dealt with by you and me prior to going to arbitration is precisely how all disputes between the unions are to be resolved under the Agreement; not, as Mr. Klima would have it, by an appeal to the officers of the local unions who are part of TWU, accompanied by a general ridiculing of TWU’s position on issues whose resolution is supposed to be the realm of an arbitrator, not that of one side or the other exercising its self-interested judgment.
 
As I said above, the issue raised in Mr. Klima’s letter must be tackled directly, and as soon as possible before any other issue can be properly approached, since it implicates the entire way in which relations between our unions must be handled under our Joint Association Agreements. I look forward to hearing from you promptly on setting up a meeting between us to set this right, and to make certain that the violations embodied in Mr. Klima’s letter are not repeated. Absent resolution of the issue between us, which I believe should require neither a lot of time nor a lot of difficult thought-let us have our lawyers set up an arbitration to resolve the issue. Following that, we can again clear up the other issues between us, and set up joint efforts to deal with the company in away that maximizes our collective strength without compromising our institutional integrity.
 
Fraternally,
Harry Lombardo
International President

ITYS   And here is just an example of how the internal fighting will go as an alliance.  And this is already happening and you guys are not even ONE yet.  Now you see how this kind of in fighting will continue thru-out your careers if you guys elect this alliance in, this is only the beginning boys and will only get worse...

 

[TRAVIS]

And a hush goes out amongst the Alliance fans............Looks like it was the IAM who did the first stab in the back of the TWU.
Hate to say it BUT I TOLD YOU SO!!!!!!
 
Now were did that Alliance Salesman go..?????? 

 

[NYer]

And a hush goes out amongst the Alliance fans............Looks like it was the IAM who did the first stab in the back of the TWU.
Hate to say it BUT I TOLD YOU SO!!!!!!

 
They're stabbing each other at this point.

 

[Kev3188]

Let 'em.

And while they do that, how 'bout the rest of us all take back our careers?

 

[WeAAsles]

And a hush goes out amongst the Alliance fans............Looks like it was the IAM who did the first stab in the back of the TWU.
Hate to say it BUT I TOLD YOU SO!!!!!!
 
Now were did that Alliance Salesman go..?????? 

Still 100% behind the Alliance. Chit I had worse fights with my ex wife then this.

 

[Rogallo]

Sell it, Brother!

 

[AANOTOK]

I commend NYer for putting that out there, but as I stated way back when, this is exactly what you will get when the Alliance is formed. It just came a little earlier than I anticipated. The losers will not be the big boys of the IAM and TWU, it will be the members of those two organizations. Why some of you folks can't fiqure it out...damn near like a cult mentality. You are only asking for trouble!!