TWU and IAM representation alliance vote

[WeAAsles]

Relax Dude - not to worry, the organizers are out getting the message to those who matter.
 
Do you actually think someone like you is going to be informed on the actual details of the drive? Your agenda is rather obvious,- if AMFA offered you a bag of gold you'd want two,- if they gave you two, you'd complain the bags were too heavy. You're not here for an actual discussion, you and the other cheerleaders are simply regurgitating the same tired anti-AMFA propaganda, and thats fine.
 
You just keep doing what you're doing, the cards are being collected just fine
 
Carry-on

You're right. Your product is not being offered to me. But it is being offered to some people who are my friends. So sell your product. They come on here to read but they haven't bought in yet. Can't you convince them why they should buy the product.

C'mon sell the product to the readers and they'll give you their cards. It can't be that difficult if it's such a great product now can it?

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

You're right. Your product is not being offered to me. But it is being offered to some people who are my friends. So sell your product. They come on here to read but they haven't bought in yet. Can't you convince them why they should buy the product.

C'mon sell the product to the readers and they'll give you their cards. It can't be that difficult if it's such a great product now can it?

 
Dude, I told you - just relax.
 
AMFA is being discussed - or "sold" if you will.
 
Here's a little secret ... YOU are helping to sell it.
 
Yes, with every piece of revisionist history you and your friends try and pass off concerning the industrial unions supposed "representation" of mechanics, with every piece of tired regurgitated anti-AMFA propaganda, with every ridiculous story you try and pass off as to why you're really here. Yes, with every disingenuous post that you, and NYer, and 700 etc post, with every ridiculous attempt at dodging responsibility when your misinformation and hypocrisy are exposed,.....all this time, cards are being collected. Thanks to you.
 
Now this might come as a shock - I'll say here right now AMFA might not get in .... this time.  
 
Its been posted many times how long AMFA has been trying to get into AA. Well guess what, they spent alot of that time trying to get into UAL too.  I myself was involved in four AMFA drives dating back to the 80's. While I don't think this forum was available then, we did have a mechanics forum on a website called "The-Mechanic.com" and you know what? There was a handful of IAM faithful there telling us the exact sort of thing your posting now. And you know what? We organized, we'd fail, and organize again, and fail, and organize again, and with each failure the IAM faithful would only become more and more brazen with their lies, just like here. They'd ask the same rhetorical questions, make the same ridiculous assertions, on and on for years, until one bright July day in 2003 we won. 
 
So while I'm sure you're already crafting your reply eager to point out that AMFA was indeed replaced aprox 5 years later, as the point was also made earlier and ignored .... we did not return to the IAM.  I have read many many times over on this board and this very thread AA mechanics have told you and others, they are simply fed up with the TWU and/or the IAMs representation or lack thereof.  This of course you and others always try to dismiss, never realizing just how real that dissatisfaction is and the full weight in decision making it carries.  It is that lackadaisical approach coupled with the same substandard representation that will eventually result in the TWU/IAMs removal ... perhaps it won't be this time perhaps it will.  Whatever happens, its safe to say its no longer a matter of "if", but "when"

 

[TRAVIS]

Yea ok sure. Let me ask you something. How do you guys get your cards? Do you annoy and harass people to no end? I mean like bother them over and over to sign a card? Do you belittle them if they tell you they're not interested? Maybe smear dog poop on their car windshield? Maybe a little peer pressure? Don't talk to them if they don't support your team?

Really I'm curious? The only selling points you guys ever make is how bad all the other unions are. What do you sell them with? You don't have anything. I mean really, what do you offer?

Pretend I'm a potential buyer interested in your product, how do you sell it to me without comparing it to how lousy you think the product I already have is? How can you get me excited about YOUR product?

Tell those fence sitters what your product offers? Well?
 
 
 

FIRST and utmost you need to do your home work and find out who is getting what and why are you not.
It's like buying a car. If the car you bought quits working for you just after you get it paid for, And lets say it's a UNION A CAR but your best friend bought a UNION B CAR at the same time and his works for him many years on down the road and you keep buying that same UNION A CAR and it keeps quitting on you and you are just throwing your money away and not getting what you paid for! You will sooner or later go buy the same UNION B CAR your friend has.
 
In other words you point out the facts and put them in front of someone with out the half truths and flat out lies and you don't use BS treats.
You give them the info the tools to look for them self.
You ask one simple question Do You Think Your Union Is Doing What You Pay Them For.
 
Now as far as cards. Do you need one?
It can be pulled up on line here.. http://www.amfanational.org/index.cfm
While your there look into some of the difference's in the way AMFA runs things and the open door negotiations!!!
 
The Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association is a craft specific, independent aviation union. It is not an industrial union and represents only aircraft maintenance technicians and related employees in the craft or class in accordance with the National Mediation Board Rules and their dictates. AMFA is committed to elevating the professional standing of technicians and to achieving progressive improvements in the wages, benefits, and working conditions of the skilled craftsmen and women it represents.
 
Have a nice night WeAAsles

 

[TRAVIS]

I'm guessing here! That was not the response he was looking for.....

 

[MetalMover]

Yea ok sure. Let me ask you something. How do you guys get your cards? Do you annoy and harass people to no end? I mean like bother them over and over to sign a card? Do you belittle them if they tell you they're not interested? Maybe smear dog poop on their car windshield? Maybe a little peer pressure? Don't talk to them if they don't support your team? Just about every mechanic at my station has signed an AMFA card when asked. They were more than eager to. Now if you want to talk harassment, look no further than the TWU scaring the members into YES votes or else the world will end.

Really I'm curious? The only selling points you guys ever make is how bad all the other unions are. What do you sell them with? You don't have anything. I mean really, what do you offer? Isn't that what you do? Sell points how bad AMFA is?

Pretend I'm a potential buyer interested in your product, how do you sell it to me without comparing it to how lousy you think the product I already have is? How can you get me excited about YOUR product? How's this? We will represent the needs of YOUR CLASS and CRAFT because you have been poorly represented for well over 30 years.

Tell those fence sitters what your product offers? Well? Even fence sitters and anti AMFA ills are against the alliance. Doesn't mean they are TWU supporters either.

 

[MetalMover]

Take a history class or something will you? You and your followers have no clue what your talking about. You hash things around on here over and over like some ridiculous shell game of find the peanut. You've been trying to find the peanut for over 30 years. My history with the TWU is all the schooling I need. Thank you very much!

I've said this before I don't care in the slightest if you jump ship and go find yourself another union or if you decide you don't want one at all. The reality though is that your choice AMFA will NEVER be associated with this airline. Too many blown opportunities to get those cards when people were really ANGRY and it should have happened and didn't. The concessions of 03 was your biggest shot and it didn't happen. Wake up and smell the coffee. YOU DON'T CARE?????? Really? Could have fooled me!

You need people to be angry enough to want the change. Your only selling point is anger and dissatisfaction. Your trying to pull on people's emotions to hawk your product and it hasn't worked in 30 years. Anger is your only shot. ​Anger has been the cause of many a revolution throughout the history of the world. 

Next September people will get raises and less people will be angry so that means less cards coming in. When we get a JCBA that means even more money in your pocket you'll have even less anger, so again more less cards. Don;t stop off at the Ferrari dealership just yet. Whatever the raise, the bulk of it will INCLUDE the 3% contract increase do us. As far as JCBA goes, my prediction is they will offer more money in exchange for things. 

TUL is not sending in enough cards. US side has little interest. And the other groups your stuck with have ZERO interest. You probably have AA line and that's it? Not enough bro. And you know this how? Now you know the interest at US?

This whole thread and your whole movement is just a 30 year lesson in spinning wheels. And I have NOTHING against any of you or what you want but just for once get real. Funny, that is how we feel under the TWU for over the past 30 years.

 

[TRAVIS]

Same goes for me.

thanks, looking into this some more on Monday with e-mails

 

[TWU informer]

Take a history class or something will you? You and your followers have no clue what your talking about. You hash things around on here over and over like some ridiculous shell game of find the peanut. You've been trying to find the peanut for over 30 years.

I've said this before I don't care in the slightest if you jump ship and go find yourself another union or if you decide you don't want one at all. The reality though is that your choice AMFA will NEVER be associated with this airline. Too many blown opportunities to get those cards when people were really ANGRY and it should have happened and didn't. The concessions of 03 was your biggest shot and it didn't happen. Wake up and smell the coffee.

You need people to be angry enough to want the change. Your only selling point is anger and dissatisfaction. Your trying to pull on people's emotions to hawk your product and it hasn't worked in 30 years. Anger is your only shot.

Next September people will get raises and less people will be angry so that means less cards coming in. When we get a JCBA that means even more money in your pocket you'll have even less anger, so again more less cards. 

TUL is not sending in enough cards. US side has little interest. And the other groups your stuck with have ZERO interest. You probably have AA line and that's it? Not enough bro. 

This whole thread and your whole movement is just a 30 year lesson in spinning wheels. And I have NOTHING against any of you or what you want but just for once get real.

I have already taken my share of History Lessons.
 
I am not looking for a peanut. Nor am I asking you to find a peanut.
 
If the AMT's only change unions because of anger then success will be limited as will union support after the change. Change of Union should not be a form of punishment because one is angry, but instead, change should be a path to better representation.
 
The AMT's of this industry need to embrace the idea of "ALL AMT's" into one union, instead of being used and negotiating against each other in seperate industrial unions.
 
And there is no better choice than AMFA for that because of the AMFA Consititution combined with the fact that only our skill sets will be represented.
 
You and the other industrial unionist fear change. And you fear that change for no other reason than personal gain or preserving the failing institution and philosophy.
 
Please tell me.
Do you think organinzed labor in this country is succeeding?
Do you think the AMT's of this industry are succeeding?
If not, then change is the solution, and status quo because of fear leads to more of the same. Change is needed, and the AMFA idea is a great choice for change which has still yet to be tried in this industry.
 
WTF is your idea or solution? Same plan, same path, same belief that "We'll Get 'Em Next Time"? That's BS and the proof is in the pudding.

 

[blue collar]

Call the DOL if you dont believe me.

Sure, someone else has to do the legwork to prove your claim.

 

[700UW]

You want to disprove so try.
 
PS you wont be able too, as the DOL still classifies A&Ps as unskilled labor.

 

[WeAAsles]

I have already taken my share of History Lessons.
 
I am not looking for a peanut. Nor am I asking you to find a peanut.
 
If the AMT's only change unions because of anger then success will be limited as will union support after the change. Change of Union should not be a form of punishment because one is angry, but instead, change should be a path to better representation.

Most times the only reason a member becomes active is because they are angry. But then they direct their anger in the wrong direction. They wind up blaming their union for everything and not the Companies, their lobbyists, Politicians and the laws they write and pass that are the real enemies to them and their families. Basically way too many seem to be out of touch where they need to direct their anger and fight.
 
The AMT's of this industry need to embrace the idea of "ALL AMT's" into one union, instead of being used and negotiating against each other in separate industrial unions.

I agree that Unions need to consolidate and form partnerships to grow stronger just like corporations are doing. But isolating your Class and Craft away from the struggles of every blue color, downtrodden person is the wrong answer.  
 
And there is no better choice than AMFA for that because of the AMFA Constitution combined with the fact that only our skill sets will be represented.

So you believe to insulate and isolate is your best solution. Not really the answer to shut yourselves off from the rest of the world. Currently AMFA does not have the financial ability or political clout to fight back against all of the things being thrown at your group. You can get the money sure if everyone hopped in but it takes a long time to make and build political connections to have your issues be put in the spotlight. How much longer do you think you have to get that done?
 
You and the other industrial unionist fear change. And you fear that change for no other reason than personal gain or preserving the failing institution and philosophy.

Oh NO NO NO. I absolutely want change. I expect change and I'm screaming for change. The old way of doing things is not working. But change can come from within if more people get involved and DEMAND it.
 
Please tell me.
Do you think organized labor in this country is succeeding?

Not entirely and there has been a downward spiral for the last 30 years. But I have been seeing a revival. Haven't you been watching? It starts with grassroots and organizing anyone you can find who's getting kicked around. Look at your current union and maybe you'll see that they have been focusing on organizing now. Mostly small groups here and there but they are growing now and not shrinking. Read that TWU Express you get in the mail instead of ignoring it and throwing it away in your desire to ignore everything from them.
 
Do you think the AMT's of this industry are succeeding?

Absolutely not. You're being decimated. The American public doesn't seem to care where their plane is fixed as long as it's flying. I'm really afraid that it's going to have to take a few major accidents before people wake up to the real dangers they're in? America has become a reactive Nation as opposed to the proactive one it once was. By all metrics we are now a Second World nation and in further decline. Read the Rise and fall of the Roman Empire and the parallels are eerily similar.

 
If not, then change is the solution, and status quo because of fear leads to more of the same. Change is needed, and the AMFA idea is a great choice for change which has still yet to be tried in this industry.

Change is beyond needed and very long overdue. I just don't ideologically agree that AMFA is that change your group needs. Maybe if it had been successful 30 years ago it would be where it needs to be to have the clout to shine spotlights on your issues but I don't honestly feel now that it has enough time to get there.
 
WTF is your idea or solution?

It may sound cliche to you but get involved in what you already have. Become a true leader within the structure and stop worrying about having your own leather chair and what your participation is doing for you. And don't be afraid to be flexible to other people's idea's of what might work and maybe giving them a shot. Be open minded to listening to everyone and don't paint people into corners of one side vs the other. None of us are each others enemies and there are no sides to trying to get to where we all need to go.

Start with the grassroots area of your organization and try to bring everyone up. If you can help others that wave should start to bring you back up as well.

Same plan, same path, same belief that "We'll Get 'Em Next Time"? That's BS and the proof is in the pudding.

Of course that is BS. No one is going to get anyone or anything if you don't get involved. Other people can't be the one's always trying to put up the fight for you. YOU get back what YOU put in.

 

[blue collar]

You want to disprove so try.
 
PS you wont be able too, as the DOL still classifies A&Ps as unskilled labor.

All I asked for is proof to back up YOUR claim. Can't provide it? How WTish

 

[737823]

You want to disprove so try.
 
PS you wont be able too, as the DOL still classifies A&Ps as unskilled labor.

What about stock clerks?

Josh

 

[700UW]

What about stock clerks?

Josh

What about Bankers who have an airline obsession?

 

[737823]

Ask Sito Pantoja

Josh