TWU and IAM representation alliance vote

[MetalMover]

 
You should make an educated decision. If this is about moving the mechanics forward then it should be with a clear better choice. AMFA is just a choice and to many it's enough simply because it's not the TWU. I wouldn't want people to make such an important decision for themselves and their families simply because we can just get rid of them. If there is a change to be made, it should be to a clear upgrade. I don't see that with AMFA.

So you would have been OK if we had gone with the IBT? As long as it is not AMFA? is that how you feel?

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

So it is a fact, for you, that the IAM is worse than AMFA because they have a more "atrocious" record of current mechanic membership vs past mechanics membership.
 
OK. That means that the AMFA is atrocious, not as atrocious as the IAM, but atrocious nevertheless. Your words.

 
Yes, of course.
 
Just so you know, no one is fooled by your childish semantics.
 
You cannot dispute the facts (the criteria for which you set) so you dive headlong into absurdity in the hope no one will again notice your hypocrisy.
 
Well Done.

 

[NYer]

You do realize that the IAM gave USair outsourcing, don't you. That was in BK, the TWU allowed it in smaller portions without the benefit of BK.
These are two desperate unions worried more about preserving union dues than the members' well being.

 
So has AMFA, so has every single below the wing union in the industry. That's not a good selling point.
 
If that's how we sign cards then you need to show me a union that doesn't allow outsourcing at all. SWA has 2/3 less mechanics than AA with 50 more planes. That's not a good ratio....that's not the way I'd prefer to get a higher rate of pay....by having others cut loose.

 

[NYer]

So you would have been OK if we had gone with the IBT? As long as it is not AMFA? is that how you feel?

 
Nope.

 

[MetalMover]

 
Nope.

Wow, you really adore the TWU. They can do no wrong in your eyes?

 

[700UW]

You do realize that the IAM gave USair outsourcing, don't you. That was in BK, the TWU allowed it in smaller portions without the benefit of BK.
These are two desperate unions worried more about preserving union dues than the members' well being.

Wrong!
 
The CBA that permitted outsourcing was in the second chapter 11 case and our CBA was abrogated and the judge made the members vote on the final offer, the IAM and the NC never agreed to any outsourcing.

 

[MetalMover]

 
So has AMFA, so has every single below the wing union in the industry. That's not a good selling point.
 
If that's how we sign cards then you need to show me a union that doesn't allow outsourcing at all. SWA has 2/3 less mechanics than AA with 50 more planes. That's not a good ratio....that's not the way I'd prefer to get a higher rate of pay....by having others cut loose.

So the TWU has a better excuse for allowing it?
You like to keep repeating the fact that SWA has less mechanics. They have ALWAYS had less and have ALWAYS outsourced more. That is from day 1. No one has ever LOST their job at SWA due to outsourcing. they did so from the day that airline was born.

 

[MetalMover]

Wrong!
 
The CBA that permitted outsourcing was in the second chapter 11 case and our CBA was abrogated and the judge made the members vote on the final offer, the IAM and the NC never agreed to any outsourcing.

 So it was STILL a result of BK..Correct? Force fed by a judge?
.. The TWU allowed a BK contract WITHOUT BK.. Try and top that!

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

 
 

So how could they know that their strike would cripple the carrier. The Pilots scabbed, the F/A scabbed and the IAM did as well. So the BIG unions continued to work while AMFA represented mechanics and related walked a picket line. --Under the NMB process, everyone else must continue to report to work.

 
--Under the NMB process, everyone else must continue to report to work.
 
In a word - WRONG.

 

[TRAVIS]

 
And can't be confident they will make anything better, considering their history.
 
I support the Association because I'd rather not get into another battle for cards and votes...I want to start working towards a JCBA.

5 or 6 week a couple of votes and you'll have and a new union and working on that new JCBA.LOL

 

[TRAVIS]

You do realize that the IAM gave USair outsourcing, don't you. That was in BK, the TWU allowed it in smaller portions without the benefit of BK.
These are two desperate unions worried more about preserving union dues than the members' well being.

+10

 

[WeAAsles]

Because there will always be people on both sides of the argument. We understand that. There will always be the TWU supporters who are afraid of change. Kind of like you and WeAAsles. Afraid to take a stand and choose to stay with the status-quo. Hasn't your work group taken enough of a hit?
How much is enough for you? 
And I will tell you this, should we get AMFA, and down the road they screw us, then guess what? We vote them out as well. At least we are willing to try.

Wow you know some of you guys remind me of that old movie with John Travolta, "The boy in the plastic bubble" it's like you've never left your house and while everyone else is breathing toxic air, you're having your's pumped in and purified for you. Ever since deregulation in 1978 the airline industry has been one hell of a crappy business.

Warren Buffett 1995
 
"And despite putting in billions and billions and billions of dollars, the net return to owners from being in the entire airline industry, if you owned it all, and if you put up all this money, is less than zero."
 
"If there had been a capitalist down there [at Kitty Hawk the day the Wright brothers made their first flight] the guy should have shot down Wilbur!  I mean ….  You know… one small step for mankind, and one huge step backwards for capitalism!"

What did you guys breath a huge dose of Knute Rockne or something?


"We're gonna go inside, we're gonna go outside, inside and outside. We're gonna get 'em on the run boys and once we get 'em on the run we're gonna keep 'em on the run. And then we're gonna go go go go go and we're not gonna stop till we get across that goal line. This is a team they say is... is good, well I think we're better than them. They can't lick us, so what do you say men?"

Maybe it's time for someone to open your bubble and kick you outside so you can breath the smog!

A number of major airlines have declared bankruptcy and have either ceased operations, or reorganized under bankruptcy protection. Airlines, like any business, are susceptible to market fluctuations and economic difficulties. The economic structure of the airline industry may contribute to airline bankruptcies as well. One major element in almost every airline bankruptcy is the rejection by the debtor of its current collective bargaining agreements with employees. After satisfying certain requirements, bankruptcy law permits courts to approve rejection of labor contracts by the debtor-employer. With this tool, airline managers reduce costs. Terms of an employee contract negotiated over years can be eliminated in months through Chapter 11. Terms of the Railway Labor Act, amended in 1936 to cover airlines, prevent most labor union work actions before, during and after an airline bankruptcy.
 

Airline bankruptcies in the United States:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airline_bankruptcies_in_the_United_States


 

 

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

 
Delle decided not to allow the Members of AMFA to vote on the NWA last offer before going on strike or two subsequent offers while they on strike. AMFA decided what was best....even though they admit it was a loss.

 
Do you realize just how ridiculous the position is you're taking?
 
AMFA had over a 90% yes to strike authorization at NWA prior to managements last best offer.
 
That offer, when it came, was worse than the offer the membership had already overwhelmingly authorized a strike over - NWA management was asking to eliminate over 50% of the AMFA membership and over 20% in wage and benefit reductions. 
 
 
You're really trying to make a case on the LBO, as if there was ANY chance it would've passed had it been put to a vote ...... do you really believe anyone other than your fellow alliance cheerleaders believe or take stock in this BS?

 

[MetalMover]

Wow you know some of you guys remind me of that old movie with John Travolta, "The boy in the plastic bubble" it's like you've never left your house and while everyone else is breathing toxic air, you're having your's pumped in and purified for you. Ever since deregulation in 1978 the airline industry has been one hell of a crappy business.

Warren Buffett 1995
 
"And despite putting in billions and billions and billions of dollars, the net return to owners from being in the entire airline industry, if you owned it all, and if you put up all this money, is less than zero."
 
"If there had been a capitalist down there [at Kitty Hawk the day the Wright brothers made their first flight] the guy should have shot down Wilbur!  I mean ….  You know… one small step for mankind, and one huge step backwards for capitalism!"

What did you guys breath a huge dose of Knute Rockne or something?


"We're gonna go inside, we're gonna go outside, inside and outside. We're gonna get 'em on the run boys and once we get 'em on the run we're gonna keep 'em on the run. And then we're gonna go go go go go and we're not gonna stop till we get across that goal line. This is a team they say is... is good, well I think we're better than them. They can't lick us, so what do you say men?"

Maybe it's time for someone to open your bubble and kick you outside so you can breath the smog!

A number of major airlines have declared bankruptcy and have either ceased operations, or reorganized under bankruptcy protection. Airlines, like any business, are susceptible to market fluctuations and economic difficulties. The economic structure of the airline industry may contribute to airline bankruptcies as well. One major element in almost every airline bankruptcy is the rejection by the debtor of its current collective bargaining agreements with employees. After satisfying certain requirements, bankruptcy law permits courts to approve rejection of labor contracts by the debtor-employer. With this tool, airline managers reduce costs. Terms of an employee contract negotiated over years can be eliminated in months through Chapter 11. Terms of the Railway Labor Act, amended in 1936 to cover airlines, prevent most labor union work actions before, during and after an airline bankruptcy.
 
Airline bankruptcies in the United States:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airline_bankruptcies_in_the_United_States


 
 

YAWN! Cutting and pasting this means nothing. You're the one living in the TWU bubble..
 
Again, you should be happy the mechanics want out. Why do you care?

 

[WeAAsles]

North America: USD5.8 billion profit in 2013, increasing to USD8.3 billion in 2014. In both years North American carriers will deliver both the highest absolute profits and the strongest EBIT margins (4.8% in 2013, 6.4% in 2014).

IATA: “Overall, the industry’s fortunes are moving in the right direction. Jet fuel prices remain high, but below their 2012 peak. Passenger demand is expanding in the 5-6% range—in line with the historical trend. Efficiencies gained through mergers and joint ventures are delivering value to both passengers and shareholders. And product innovations are growing ancillary revenues... We must temper our optimism with an appropriate dose of caution. It’s a tough environment in which to run an airline. Competition is intense and yields are deteriorating. Cargo volumes haven’t grown since 2010 and cargo revenues are back at 2007 levels.  The passenger business is expanding more robustly,” Tony Tyler, director general and CEO. Source: IATA, 12-Dec-2013. [more - original PR]

http://centreforaviation.com/news/iata-2014-forecast-to-be-largest-ever-absolute-profit-for-the-airline-industry-291805