TWU and IAM representation alliance vote

[MetalMover]

 
You like AMFA so they can decide for you what isn't your best interest....You don't like the TWU or the IAM so they can't decide for you what is or isn't in your best interest.

Isn't that what the TWU does? Decide for us what is best? Decide who gets international appointments without our input? Their salaries without our input? 

 

[NYer]

AMFA/NWA was not just about wages. You are trying so desparately to distinguish  the AMFA strike from the IAM strike. They were both about survival. One against EAL. The other against NWA. You are claiming that the AMFA strike failed because they went back under the airline's terms. So what about the IAM? Was that a success causing a great airline to shut down forcing tens of thousands to the street?

 
Depends who you ask. Most Eastern workers I've spoken to say that strike was a success to them because they didn't let Lorenzo win and continue to dismantle Eastern the way he did with Continental. The fight at Eastern is well chronicled and documented. The strike at NWA doesn't seem to carry the same history although the circumstances are vastly different.
 
The Eastern guys seem to feel they succeeded because they stopped Lorenzo. What is the measurement of the NWA strike what makes it successful or unsuccessful? 

 

[MetalMover]

 
Depends who you ask. Most Eastern workers I've spoken to say that strike was a success to them because they didn't let Lorenzo win and continue to dismantle Eastern the way he did with Continental. The fight at Eastern is well chronicled and documented. The strike at NWA doesn't seem to carry the same history although the circumstances are vastly different.
 
The Eastern guys seem to feel they succeeded because they stopped Lorenzo. What is the measurement of the NWA strike what makes it successful or unsuccessful? 

And THEY HAVE EVERY RIGHT to deem it a success. They walked the line and lost their jobs.  When was the last time the TWU even whispered the word STRIKE in hopes of standing up to concessions?
Just like the Eastern people felt it was right, so did the NWA people who struck. 
Again, I am going to ask you and WeAAsles....How much more in concessions are you willing to endure "just to keep" your job?  What is your limit?
I ask you this because BOTH the IAM and AMFA people who struck did so because they had enough!

 

[NYer]

The TWU sucking is good enough reason for a lot of us. Show me where the TWU has ever put up a real fight during ANY contract WITHOUT giving anything up? 

 
It doesn't seem to be good enough reason for the majority.

 

[MetalMover]

 
It doesn't seem to be good enough reason for the majority.

Oh, you mean the 50 or so votes we lost by? WoW solid majority there. Thank heavens for dead and retired TWU members getting included.

 

[NYer]

And THEY HAVE EVERY RIGHT to deem it a success. They walked the line and lost their jobs.  When was the last time the TWU even whispered the word STRIKE in hopes of standing up to concessions?
Just like the Eastern people felt it was right, so did the NWA people who struck. 
Again, I am going to ask you and WeAAsles....How much more in concessions are you willing to endure "just to keep" your job?  What is your limit?
I ask you this because BOTH the IAM and AMFA people who struck did so because they had enough!

 
So you're saying that if everyone decides to go to AMFA there will be no more concessions? There will be no more outsourcing, even though both AMFA airlines contain outsourcing language

 

[NYer]

Oh, you mean the 50 or so votes we lost by? WoW solid majority there. Thank heavens for dead and retired TWU members getting included.

 
It's been a decade, you guys should know every name by heart at this point. If you want to convince people that AMFA is better how can you be outsmarted after so long at organizing.

 

[NYer]

Isn't that what the TWU does? Decide for us what is best? Decide who gets international appointments without our input? Their salaries without our input? 

 
Delle decided not to allow the Members of AMFA to vote on the NWA last offer before going on strike or two subsequent offers while they on strike. AMFA decided what was best....even though they admit it was a loss.

 

[MetalMover]

 
So you're saying that if everyone decides to go to AMFA there will be no more concessions? There will be no more outsourcing, even though both AMFA airlines contain outsourcing language

I never said that. But from your posts, you believe in bending over for the company. You support the alliance because we will all of a sudden get a decent contract. AMFA has never been at AA. Just the TWU and they have allowed outsourcing along with B scale and OSMs and SRP's. Cant blame AMFA for what happened at AA under the TWU's watchful eye.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

 

 

 
In order to save the AMFA represented employees and more hardship they AMFA's Leaders decided to give up the representation to ease the transition with Delta. -AMFA decided to save their Members more "hardship" by allowing them to go to a non-union shop to "ease the transition." Whaaaa?
 

 

 
 
Yes - beyond your superficial glance at the situation lays the real story.  Delta was withholding a $3+ dollar an hour raise from the sNWA mechanics until the representational dispute was settled. AMFA knew they didn't have enough cards, so they did the right thing by the membership, and requested decertification rather than drag the question out, and delay the raise.

 

[NYer]

I never said that. But from your posts, you believe in bending over for the company. You support the alliance because we will all of a sudden get a decent contract. AMFA has never been at AA. Just the TWU and they have allowed outsourcing along with B scale and OSMs and SRP's. Cant blame AMFA for what happened at AA under the TWU's watchful eye.

 
And can't be confident they will make anything better, considering their history.
 
I support the Association because I'd rather not get into another battle for cards and votes...I want to start working towards a JCBA.

 

[MetalMover]

 
It's been a decade, you guys should know every name by heart at this point. If you want to convince people that AMFA is better how can you be outsmarted after so long at organizing.

Because there will always be people on both sides of the argument. We understand that. There will always be the TWU supporters who are afraid of change. Kind of like you and WeAAsles. Afraid to take a stand and choose to stay with the status-quo. Hasn't your work group taken enough of a hit?
How much is enough for you? 
And I will tell you this, should we get AMFA, and down the road they screw us, then guess what? We vote them out as well. At least we are willing to try.

 

[NYer]

 
 
Yes - beyond your superficial glance at the situation lays the real story.  Delta was withholding a $3+ dollar an hour raise from the sNWA mechanics until the representational dispute was settled. AMFA knew they didn't have enough cards, so they did the right thing by the membership, and requested decertification rather than drag the question out, and delay the raise.

 
So again. They decided what was best for their Members. Was there a vote? I guess not.They just gave up...No fight?
 
And you want to bring them here. They can't even afford to organize us (or are uninterested) and they seem to make decisions for their Members which even you guys think is a "no-no"

 

[MetalMover]

 
And can't be confident they will make anything better, considering their history.
 
I support the Association because I'd rather not get into another battle for cards and votes...I want to start working towards a JCBA.

You do realize that the IAM gave USair outsourcing, don't you. That was in BK, the TWU allowed it in smaller portions without the benefit of BK.
These are two desperate unions worried more about preserving union dues than the members' well being.

 

[NYer]

Because there will always be people on both sides of the argument. We understand that. There will always be the TWU supporters who are afraid of change. Kind of like you and WeAAsles. Afraid to take a stand and choose to stay with the status-quo. Hasn't your work group taken enough of a hit?
How much is enough for you? 
And I will tell you this, should we get AMFA, and down the road they screw us, then guess what? We vote them out as well. At least we are willing to try.

 
You should make an educated decision. If this is about moving the mechanics forward then it should be with a clear better choice. AMFA is just a choice and to many it's enough simply because it's not the TWU. I wouldn't want people to make such an important decision for themselves and their families simply because we can just get rid of them. If there is a change to be made, it should be to a clear upgrade. I don't see that with AMFA.