TWU and IAM representation alliance vote

[NYer]

Well Mr know it all, YOU need to go to one of them FACILITIES, ST Aerospace in Mobile and San Antonio Aerospace and see all the AA/US AIRCRAFT IN THE BAYS That the IAM/TWU UNIONS HAVE LET THE COMPANY FARM OUT!!! 
I need to go! will you get the ______ off my coattails ! 
Riding coattails: This can often be used as a generic phrase for anyone that hangs onto another person as they forge ahead, without effort from the hanger-on.
IF YOU THINK THE STATEMENT IS WRONG..... THEN WHY ARE YOU GUYS TRYING SO HARD TO KEEP THE AMT's AND WHY DO YOU CARE WHAT UNION WE ARE IN !! IT'S STILL A UNION??????
I'm NOT ATTACKING THE MESSENGER, I'm TELLING YOU WERE TO GET OFF....

 
I'm not trying to keep AMT's, to the contrary, if you read my posts I actively encourage the AMFA supporters to get as many cards signed as they can. If you get the numbers then go do it. The issue is really how the AMFA supporters are using misinformation to persuade others to go their way, so let's level the playing field and if AMFA is indeed the obvious choice to move forward, one little blogger is not going to make a difference, right.

 

[NYer]

 
NYer
 
This statement tells us all really what you know, Although the Local sends a President or a representative to the Negotiations they Do Not sit at the Table with the ATD and the Company.
 
Do you really think that a aircraft mechanic/Fleet clerk/Material Distribution clerk/Facilities mechanic has enough skill to interpret labor laws in every state, has enough contract skills to go up against the legal teams that AA brings to the table come on man. 
 
The ATD sits and makes a deal in which they feel will benefit the group as a whole. The company gives the unions a slice of the company Pie it is then up to the union to give each work group enough of that pie to satisfy them. Getting each group to buy off on its T/A gets the ATD what they want. The UNion is a business just as AA is. They want to make money as well. Members of the TWU/IAM/IBT ATD's make a substantial amount of money above the members. They also reap all the bennies we get but don't have to suffer under the deals in which they make. The ATD members are taken care of by the Unions and live high on the Hog as they say while the working stiffs go pay check to paycheck with out raises and improvements for yrs. I bet the ATD did not take concessions like we did in 2003, Now did they?
 
At the end of this contract we still won't be were we would of been with the 2001 deal.
It won't be until 2018 or so until we see a JCBA with the USAirways guys. The money we have gotten in supposed raise is just returning some of what they gave away.

 
Well, if in your opinion the elected Presidents on the TWU Negotiating Committee don't have the necessary skill to "interpret labor laws in every state, has enough contract skills to go up against the legal teams that AA brings to the table," then ow can you think it is a better idea to have Members sit in negotiations and dictate what is and what isn't acceptable as is mentioned happens in AMFA negotiations.
 
It seems clear you question the very people elected to preform such tasks, but at the same time you're in favor of letting anyone sit in negotiations and interpret the proceedings in order to keep the negotiating committee honest. Can't have both.
 
Even if you're correct and the ATD makes deals, the Presidents still have to vote on them and the Memberships still have to vote on them, and they do.

 

[NYer]

 
NYer
 
This statement tells us all really what you know, Although the Local sends a President or a representative to the Negotiations they Do Not sit at the Table with the ATD and the Company.
 
Do you really think that a aircraft mechanic/Fleet clerk/Material Distribution clerk/Facilities mechanic has enough skill to interpret labor laws in every state, has enough contract skills to go up against the legal teams that AA brings to the table come on man. 
 
The ATD sits and makes a deal in which they feel will benefit the group as a whole. The company gives the unions a slice of the company Pie it is then up to the union to give each work group enough of that pie to satisfy them. Getting each group to buy off on its T/A gets the ATD what they want. The UNion is a business just as AA is. They want to make money as well. Members of the TWU/IAM/IBT ATD's make a substantial amount of money above the members. They also reap all the bennies we get but don't have to suffer under the deals in which they make. The ATD members are taken care of by the Unions and live high on the Hog as they say while the working stiffs go pay check to paycheck with out raises and improvements for yrs. I bet the ATD did not take concessions like we did in 2003, Now did they?
 
At the end of this contract we still won't be were we would of been with the 2001 deal.
It won't be until 2018 or so until we see a JCBA with the USAirways guys. The money we have gotten in supposed raise is just returning some of what they gave away.

 
Once the Association is approved by the NMB and voted on by the Members, the JCBA will be in place before the end of 2015.
 
The "wage adjuster" is set to kick in on September 2012, so that figures to be the starting point for wage negotiations.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

 
It makes no difference and it makes less sense since each title group has a separate Association agreement. Instead of complaining so much, the work should be to get everyone to sign AMFA cards, this might be your last chance. That's the real reason for M&R to be opposed to the Association, it makes an AMFA takeover virtually impossible.
 
AMFA has been trying to get in for at least a decade and there are many less mechanics now than in 2001, 2003 and even 2012...but they still can't get 50% of people to sign cards.....Sad.

 
 
We all can find a negative about any union but when we the guys who want to make the change show the bad about the TWU as far as the mechanics are concerned and when TWU supporters that are from fllet just keep looking and finding and repeating the bs about amfa it just makes it harder and that is why some put down the fleet guys and say what ever and them you fleet guys get the bb off on the elite amt's and just never quit.
 
"YES" each group has its own contract but the same ATD does the sit down at the table.
You do know that correct?????
 
The prez sit in a side room and discuss what the ATD tells them what to talk about or decide. Each group talks about each article and what company has to offer and they give feed back to the info they were given.
 
Sitting in lets each member hear what is being said and that way they can ask questions when the session is over as to what something meant if they did not get it. Can't do that with the IAM/IBT/TWU. They alll sign letters of I will say nothing.
 
That is correct we have less guys either due to layoff or early out or just quit since this place for the AMT had gotten worse each contract.

 

[NYer]

 
 
We all can find a negative about any union but when we the guys who want to make the change show the bad about the TWU as far as the mechanics are concerned and when TWU supporters that are from fllet just keep looking and finding and repeating the bs about amfa it just makes it harder and that is why some put down the fleet guys and say what ever and them you fleet guys get the bb off on the elite amt's and just never quit.
 
"YES" each group has its own contract but the same ATD does the sit down at the table.
You do know that correct?????
 
The prez sit in a side room and discuss what the ATD tells them what to talk about or decide. Each group talks about each article and what company has to offer and they give feed back to the info they were given.
 
Sitting in lets each member hear what is being said and that way they can ask questions when the session is over as to what something meant if they did not get it. Can't do that with the IAM/IBT/TWU. They alll sign letters of I will say nothing.
 
That is correct we have less guys either due to layoff or early out or just quit since this place for the AMT had gotten worse each contract.

 
Oh Brother. OK, let's go with your premise. Let's say the ATD does sit with the Company and they do talk about whatever it is they're conspiring to do. At some point, the Presidents', the ATD and the Company do sit in a room together and they do talk with each other...so if the Presidents' disagree with the ATD and the Company, they can voice in that setting and make it perfectly clear that those Presidents will not go along with whatever they believe is happening. In the end, ONLY the Presidents have the vote to bring something back to the Membership. The Company doesn't have that power, the ATD doesn't have that power...it only sits with the Presidents so they have some control.
 
Secondly, even if AMFA allows Members to sit in, how do we know that there weren't talks behind closed doors as alleged with the TWU and only the issues they want to be discussed are discussed in that setting. There could be meetings before the Members are allowed in and the same things could happen in that setting.
 
And yes, we have less Members that we did, but we still have more Members that AMFA has at SWA, as a matter of fact three times more.

 

[Vortilon]

 
Once the Association is approved by the NMB and voted on by the Members, the JCBA will be in place before the end of 2015.
 
The "wage adjuster" is set to kick in on September 2012, so that figures to be the starting point for wage negotiations.

 
 
2012???  "Wage Adjuster"?  Is that supposed to cover all the other losses as well?  Look what we have to look forward to guys - a wage adjuster that puts our base pay in the middle of the pack again - probably 3 years before that would take effect.  Sorry about your 2 weeks of vacation you lost.  Sorry about your loss of 5 holidays, and loss of holiday pay at 2.5X.  Sorry about your Sick Pay, and sorry about sick time acrual rate cut by more than half.  Sorry about loss of shift differential pay.  Sorry about loss of longevity pay.  The list goes on and on - of TWU negotiated losses for AA AMTs.  Yet here you are trying to pump sunshine up the AMT's a$$es.
 
Look, nobody that has looked at this JCBA deal with any objectivity, has any confidence in it - working to benefit the AA AMTs at all..
 
AMFA is the only logical choice.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

 
Oh Brother. OK, let's go with your premise. Let's say the ATD does sit with the Company and they do talk about whatever it is they're conspiring to do. At some point, the Presidents', the ATD and the Company do sit in a room together and they do talk with each other...so if the Presidents' disagree with the ATD and the Company, they can voice in that setting and make it perfectly clear that those Presidents will not go along with whatever they believe is happening. In the end, ONLY the Presidents have the vote to bring something back to the Membership. The Company doesn't have that power, the ATD doesn't have that power...it only sits with the Presidents so they have some control.
 
Secondly, even if AMFA allows Members to sit in, how do we know that there weren't talks behind closed doors as alleged with the TWU and only the issues they want to be discussed are discussed in that setting. There could be meetings before the Members are allowed in and the same things could happen in that setting.
 
And yes, we have less Members that we did, but we still have more Members that AMFA has at SWA, as a matter of fact three times more.

 
 
NYer
 
The Local Prez don't at any time sit with the company. They are Not going to have ramp/stores mechanics getting alll hot under the collar with the HR and Legal teams of the AA team.
 
The ATD can as well just sign off on it they DON"T even have to let us vote, they do have the power to do that. They don't but they can.  Just like this Association they are speaking for us J. Little and T. Buffenburger signed this agreement without our say not didn't they?
 
They signed away our profit sharing as well or did you forget. Pres. didn't vote on that.
Bobby Gless just gave it away and said its better to get money now we did not have a say.
 
They kept our stock to pay the legal fees we again had NO SAY
They did not put a snap back clause in our 2003 contract, and in fact Don Vedeitich made this statement we didn't feel it was in the best interest of the company at this time to put a snap back in on our contract.
 
What ever is going to keep the dues flowing is what the TWU is going to do, and you better come to realise that. Its a business for the TWU and the crooks that run it.

 

[Vortilon]

 
Oh Brother. OK, let's go with your premise. Let's say the ATD does sit with the Company and they do talk about whatever it is they're conspiring to do. At some point, the Presidents', the ATD and the Company do sit in a room together and they do talk with each other...so if the Presidents' disagree with the ATD and the Company, they can voice in that setting and make it perfectly clear that those Presidents will not go along with whatever they believe is happening. In the end, ONLY the Presidents have the vote to bring something back to the Membership. The Company doesn't have that power, the ATD doesn't have that power...it only sits with the Presidents so they have some control.
 
Secondly, even if AMFA allows Members to sit in, how do we know that there weren't talks behind closed doors as alleged with the TWU and only the issues they want to be discussed are discussed in that setting. There could be meetings before the Members are allowed in and the same things could happen in that setting.
 
And yes, we have less Members that we did, but we still have more Members that AMFA has at SWA, as a matter of fact three times more.

 
 
I believe Bob has covered this scenario with you on numerous occasions.  IIRC Bob stated that the line presidents did in fact protest on this last contract TA.  They were blown off by the company negotiators.  How was it - the company could do that you ask?  Because of the sellouts from the Local five one four and their majority roll call vote, and a few smaller sized stations with fleet service presidents were flown in to help out vote the line AMTs. 
Yeah, that's the kind of representation we want.... said no one - ever.

 

[wrencher]

So post merger what will my seniority be 4-10-2001 at some stations 25% at others and 100% in St. Louis ? What is DOH into the craft and class mean? Is it just for the original AA mechanics / parts washers ect . Are they even meeting to discuss these issues?

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

So post merger what will my seniority be 4-10-2001 at some stations 25% at others and 100% in St. Louis ? What is DOH into the craft and class mean? Is it just for the original AA mechanics / parts washers ect . Are they even meeting to discuss these issues?

 
Wrencher
 
I have asked the TWU about that as well, can't get an answer. No one knows if Kasher is going to still be honored. At this point it is the rule of the Land but as we merge with US will that get over turned or honored, who knows. Merging by Mccaskill Bond is supposed to be the way it will get done. But who will keep the TWU/IAM in check to do the right thing.
 
The IAM abandoned you and let the TWU do what it did and it went to the arbitrator and he made the ruling. But who is to say that the TWU did not influence that. Just as with SWA and the Airtran guys both parties came up with a plan they all voted and it went the way it did. Is it right that depends on who you talk too.
 
For Me giving everyone the occupational time in the classification they are working is fair, some say NO but that is the IGM syndrome of the times.
 
We the mechanics of the airline industry are our own worst enemy. LQQKing out for just ourselves and what we have instead of the group as a whole.

 

[NYer]

 
 
NYer
 
The Local Prez don't at any time sit with the company. They are Not going to have ramp/stores mechanics getting alll hot under the collar with the HR and Legal teams of the AA team. --Isn't it the job of the elected Local Presidents to sit with the Company...how can you argue they don't have time. That's ridiculous.
 
The ATD can as well just sign off on it they DON"T even have to let us vote, they do have the power to do that. They don't but they can.  Just like this Association they are speaking for us J. Little and T. Buffenburger signed this agreement without our say not didn't they? --The can, but they didn't. The Presidents brought back the Tentative Agreement, they argued their points, and shared their views with their Memberships.
 
They signed away our profit sharing as well or did you forget. Pres. didn't vote on that.
Bobby Gless just gave it away and said its better to get money now we did not have a say. --The Profit Sharing was an MOU with a company we didn't work for. The AMT's received an annual $2,500 raise that they can add to with OT and 401K matching funds. In the beginning of the decade the Profit Sharing was seen as an albatross and now we received pay raises and that's wrong too.
 
They kept our stock to pay the legal fees we again had NO SAY --The holding of the stock was a Court mandated issue. It was a court order that established the 14% holding from a lawsuit raised by Early Out recipients based on a decision made by the Equity Committee, which were all Local Presidents.
 
They did not put a snap back clause in our 2003 contract, and in fact Don Vedeitich made this statement we didn't feel it was in the best interest of the company at this time to put a snap back in on our contract. --Bad call, if it was even possible to get under the circumstances.
 
What ever is going to keep the dues flowing is what the TWU is going to do, and you better come to realise that. Its a business for the TWU and the crooks that run it. --So there are not dues at other unions or with AMFA. The TWU is only union that collect dues? Is that really an argument.
 
If you guys want AMFA, then you need to tell everyone how they will make things better for everyone else. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem there is too much positives to advertise about...except they can vote for absolutely everything. If that's what the Members want and they ignore the other stuff, then get those cards signed. Good luck with that.

 

[NYer]

So post merger what will my seniority be 4-10-2001 at some stations 25% at others and 100% in St. Louis ? What is DOH into the craft and class mean? Is it just for the original AA mechanics / parts washers ect . Are they even meeting to discuss these issues?

 
All the seniority dates from the Kasher Decision stays the same.
 
DOH = Date of Hire

 

[NYer]

 
 
I believe Bob has covered this scenario with you on numerous occasions.  IIRC Bob stated that the line presidents did in fact protest on this last contract TA.  They were blown off by the company negotiators.  How was it - the company could do that you ask?  Because of the sellouts from the Local five one four and their majority roll call vote, and a few smaller sized stations with fleet service presidents were flown in to help out vote the line AMTs. 
Yeah, that's the kind of representation we want.... said no one - ever.

 
Line Presidents that have Members from the Title groups affected by the Tentative Agreement and they have the right to represent their membership as do all the Presidents. The call is to have votes, in this case a local that has many Members used a roll call to represent those Members. AT THE SAME TIME, you're going to argue against smaller locals being able to vote also. It seems that's a perfect excuse to not get what you want...blame others, everyone else is at fault. The International, the ATD, the 514 representatives, the Presidents from smaller local representing several title groups....The longer you guys used the arguments the more exposed are the conspiracy theories being thrown about.

 

[NYer]

 
 
2012???  "Wage Adjuster"? --That should be 2015, not 2012
 
Is that supposed to cover all the other losses as well?  Look what we have to look forward to guys - a wage adjuster that puts our base pay in the middle of the pack again - probably 3 years before that would take effect. --You keep complaining about being last, now before any more negotiations you'll automatically be at the "middle of the pack." With further JCBA negotiations, that "middle of the pack" standing is the take off point. (not being last)
 
  Sorry about your 2 weeks of vacation you lost.  Sorry about your loss of 5 holidays, and loss of holiday pay at 2.5X.  Sorry about your Sick Pay, and sorry about sick time acrual rate cut by more than half.  Sorry about loss of shift differential pay.  Sorry about loss of longevity pay.  The list goes on and on - of TWU negotiated losses for AA AMTs.  Yet here you are trying to pump sunshine up the AMT's a$$es. --No sunshine here. There needs to be some negotiations going forward. The quicker we get to the table the quicker we can trying to regain some of those losses and keep jobs.
 
Look, nobody that has looked at this JCBA deal with any objectivity, has any confidence in it - working to benefit the AA AMTs at all.. --Being negative at all times is the last place you'll be able to make any gains. It seems there are many that will make anything and everything that happens a negative. Can't help those that want to create the very negativity they want to escape from.
 
AMFA is the only logical choice. Then get to work and get those cards signed. The window of opportunity is quickly fading away. The Association Single Carrier Status application has been delayed by the NMB looking for more information. That is absolutely the best news that can be gathered by the pro-AMFA guys, that gives them even more time to get those cards done.....Go for it. If the majority wants it, it will happen.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

 

 
 
NYer
 
The Local Prez don't at any time sit with the company. They are Not going to have ramp/stores mechanics getting alll hot under the collar with the HR and Legal teams of the AA team. --Isn't it the job of the elected Local Presidents to sit with the Company...how can you argue they don't have time. That's ridiculous. No the ATD does that the pres. or local rep sent sit on a side bar room and the ATD brings what was discussed tot them and then these committees hash out articles submit what they think back to ATD reps.
 
The ATD can as well just sign off on it they DON"T even have to let us vote, they do have the power to do that. They don't but they can.  Just like this Association they are speaking for us J. Little and T. Buffenburger signed this agreement without our say not didn't they? --The can, but they didn't. The Presidents brought back the Tentative Agreement, they argued their points, and shared their views with their Memberships. The AMT pres are out numbered by the rest so that is why our Local pres wanted a NO VOTE. Even put out a video. it only passed by 48 votes since many didn't take the time to vote. How SAD 
 
They signed away our profit sharing as well or did you forget. Pres. didn't vote on that.
Bobby Gless just gave it away and said its better to get money now we did not have a say. --The Profit Sharing was an MOU with a company we didn't work for. The AMT's received an annual $2,500 raise that they can add to with OT and 401K matching funds. In the beginning of the decade the Profit Sharing was seen as an albatross and now we received pay raises and that's wrong too. Bobby Gless who was part of the ATD felt it was better so he bargained it away, my point was that we did not have a say now did we?
 
They kept our stock to pay the legal fees we again had NO SAY --The holding of the stock was a Court mandated issue. It was a court order that established the 14% holding from a lawsuit raised by Early Out recipients based on a decision made by the Equity Committee, which were all Local Presidents. For the TWU to use MY stock and yours to pay their legal fees and then when alll said and done give me what's left is BS. Did you authorize that I surely didn't?
 
They did not put a snap back clause in our 2003 contract, and in fact Don Vedeitich made this statement we didn't feel it was in the best interest of the company at this time to put a snap back in on our contract. --Bad call, if it was even possible to get under the circumstances. Pilots got all of their concessions back, so it must of been available if the union was willing to fight for it. Oh thats right the TWU just rolls over 
 
What ever is going to keep the dues flowing is what the TWU is going to do, and you better come to realise that. Its a business for the TWU and the crooks that run it. --So there are not dues at other unions or with AMFA. The TWU is only union that collect dues? Is that really an argument. With AMFA the members get to vote on whats going to be done the TWU and the rest just doit was my point.
 
If you guys want AMFA, then you need to tell everyone how they will make things better for everyone else. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem there is too much positives to advertise about...except they can vote for absolutely everything. If that's what the Members want and they ignore the other stuff, then get those cards signed. Good luck with that. AMFA is NOT for everyone else its for the mechanics and related those designated by the NMB to be in our class and craft and that does not include Fleet/stores
We are working on those cards. But why do you even care its Not about any change for you now is it? So why bad mouth a union you won't be affiliated with or represented by.