TWU and IAM representation alliance vote

[Rogallo]

 
With the Association the TWU continues to be your union. The only way for the IAM to become your union is to have a vote between the parties, which they'd have a fair chance of winning considering how many have blasted the TWU for most of their careers. 
 
Therefore, the hypocrisy lies in those that talk so much against the IAM and at the same time want a vote that would open the door for the IAM to win a vote and become your exclusive representative.
 
It doesn't seem many on here things these things through. Then again, the main agenda on these pages seems to be to promote a union that has failed in their attempt to represent TWU Members at AA for about 53 years.

 
"The IAM Int'l president will be first chairperson for a two year term followed by the TWU Int'l president."
 
I'll be paying dues to the TWU with the IAM chairing the association. WTF?

 

[NYer]

 
"...With the Association the TWU continues to be your union. The only way for the IAM to become your union is to have a vote between the parties..."
 
Really? Well lets just see what the IAM-TWU joint agreement for Mechanics and related has to say about that, shall we?
 
Per Paragraph 4 of the joint agreement.
 
 
....And just so you know.... from the "DUES" Q&A
 
 
 
So again, you prove you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
 
Well Done.

 
Nice try, but that answer was for ThirdSeatHero to a post he made. Therefore the response was to him and not an overall assessment that fits everyone. However, the majority of IAM Members and the majority of TWU Members will continue to be represented by the unions that take care of that today. The Association does not represent anyone for the purposes of daily issues (such as grievances), they're there to represent in collective bargaining issues and national issues that affect the entire work forces.
 
I know you're looking for a "gotcha" since rebutting the information shared seems to be too difficult.

 

[NYer]

 
"The IAM Int'l president will be first chairperson for a two year term followed by the TWU Int'l president."
 
I'll be paying dues to the TWU with the IAM chairing the association. WTF?

 
 Neither the Chairman nor the Vice Chairman have autonomy, decisions are by consensus.

 

[NYer]

Don't piss on my back and tell me it's raining. I will do my best to get rid of the IAM or TWU or both of these worthless unions any way I can. I would VOTE non-UNION rather than have them. DELTA not looking to bad right now.
They may be doing a good job for ramp rats and auto mech's but as a LICENSED A&P THEY HAVE DEVASTATED MY CAREER WITH PISS POOR CONTRACTS AND FLAT OUT FAILURE TO SUPPORT THE AMT MEMBERS.

 
"Delta's spending on outsourced maintenance has grown from a third to almost half of its nonlabor maintenance expense in recent years, according to government figures, after the carrier contracted out virtually all of its major aircraft overhauls. Such overhauls, which involve extensive inspections every six years or so, once filled many of Delta's hangar bays. The changes are part of Delta's effort over the past few years to cut costs and rework processes to mirror industry trends. Along the way, Delta cut its 9,500-employee maintenance staff by a third and shuttered hangars in Tampa, Dallas-Fort Worth and Atlanta." (source Atlanta-Constitution 2007)
 
"A News 8 investigation of San Antonio Aerospace, a unit of Singapore Technologies, found that hundreds of foreign workers were imported to work on the aircraft of U.S. carriers at the company's sprawling facility in San Antonio. Delta Air Lines and UPS are among San Antonio Aerospace customers...the San Antonio airport facilities.ST Aerospace in Mobile, Alabama also employed hundreds of low-wage foreign workers, many of whom were from overseas, News 8 found." (source WFAA 2011)
 
Seems as if your favorite airline for mechanics is actually making even harder to get the compensation and job security you crave. Maybe AMFA would do a better service by organizing Delta, rather than spending so many years on a work force that is already unionized.

 

[NYer]

I read 2 lines and stopped.  Your still incorrect.  Get it right. Get educated. SWA has well over 1750 mechs chief-get right.  I am sooooo tired of you guys that post untruths and misinformation. You sir are going by very old information, get into the 2014's.  Stop believing the lies from the TWU and IAM about AMFA, as you look like an idiot and moron...

 
What is the current number of SWA aircraft mechanics servicing Southwest Airlines' 680 aircraft?

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

 
Nice try, but that answer was for ThirdSeatHero to a post he made. Therefore the response was to him and not an overall assessment that fits everyone. However, the majority of IAM Members and the majority of TWU Members will continue to be represented by the unions that take care of that today. The Association does not represent anyone for the purposes of daily issues (such as grievances), they're there to represent in collective bargaining issues and national issues that affect the entire work forces.
 
I know you're looking for a "gotcha" since rebutting the information shared seems to be too difficult.

 
 
First you claim .....
 

 
...With the Association the TWU continues to be your union. The only way for the IAM to become your union is to have a vote between the parties..."

 
Then when confronted with the actual language from the agreement, you try and deflect with this nonsense ....
 

 
"...However, the majority of IAM Members and the majority of TWU Members will continue to be represented by the unions that take care of that today...."

 
Your sorry attempt at re-qualifying your remarks isn't fooling anyone.
 
Your Hypocrisy remains. You continue to try and denigrate AMFA while at the same time advocating for an alliance with a union, which using your own stated metrics, is far worse in its representation of mechanics. You've tried to defend this hypocritical position with the farce that no one could be forced under the IAMs representation without a vote, which has now been proven to be absolutely NOT TRUE.
 
Nice try Indeed.

 

[swamt]

 

Number 1-  I would note vote for anything for myself at the expense of anyone.

Good. I hope you mean it. I'm not always so sure when I actually talk to people one on one what they really would do. But if you are being truthful I can bet that you're the exception to the rule for most.

 2-  I am not confused, at all.

About what? For the third time I said I can't ever possibly know what you think since those thoughts are your own. Why are you having such a difficulty understanding that? 

 Standoffish? C'mon, you know where you were trying to go and I won't let it happen.

I'm not trying to go anywhere with you. What you "think" I'm trying to do again is in your own mind.

 Just like I will will not let 700 and WT get away with it either,  comprendae?

 

 

Yes Comprendae.  (sorry, wrong spelling, but trying to add a little spanish) 
I do mean it.
You said I was confused in your last post between you and I.
I agree 100% about our 2 twins you listed above.
 
BTW, I really did think you were trying to twist my post, if I was wrong, I am sorry for the actuation. I will admit when I am in the wrong, as others will not out here...

 

[OldGuy@AA]

The interesting thing here is that NYer is a Fleet Service Clerk.  He has above average industry pay and better benefits than AMTs do.  His group voted yes on their first TA and then hoped the "Me Too" clauses would lead to improvements.  Of course we AMTs know that "Me Too" has done nothing for AMTs while securing improvements for FS and Stores.  Nyer doesn't want AMTs to get away from the TWU or the insane alliance.  His warped view of unionism allows for one group to be discriminated against and forced to endure inferior benefits and higher pay cuts.  As long as it's not his work group he is fine with it.  When he talks about a TA passing he is talking about the Fleet Service contract.  We AMTs know that the buyout package bought the yes votes for our TA.  NYer enjoys longevity pay & 100% sick pay.  These two things are something AMTs have not had for over eleven years.  We were also forced to take an extra 2.5% pay cut than FS or Stores,  but not a peep from NYer about how this is not what unionism is all about.  Hypocrisy seems to run rampant in the FS work group as he and others who continue to spew their wacked version of reality must be frightened the AMTs might actually get away from them someday.  Oh yeah, also helps NYer and friends that the ATD is loaded up with Fleet Service Clerks who will no doubt look out for them while continuing to force unfair and inferior benefits on AMTs.  Do you think NYer would be ok with the AMTs getting longevity and sick time and a 2.5% raise before FS gets a single thing?  Of course not.  Is it any wonder why so many AMTs want out of the TWU?  I only hope more of us wake up in time to get AMFA on the ballot so we can be done with NYer and the TWU and the alliance.  NYer's opinion seems to be that FS deserves above standard pay and better benefits while AMTs stay at the bottom of the industry in pay while living with inferior benefits to boot.  With union "Brothers" like him who needs enemies?

 

[NYer]

The interesting thing here is that NYer is a Fleet Service Clerk.  He has above average industry pay and better benefits than AMTs do.  His group voted yes on their first TA and then hoped the "Me Too" clauses would lead to improvements.  Of course we AMTs know that "Me Too" has done nothing for AMTs while securing improvements for FS and Stores.  Nyer doesn't want AMTs to get away from the TWU or the insane alliance.  His warped view of unionism allows for one group to be discriminated against and forced to endure inferior benefits and higher pay cuts.  As long as it's not his work group he is fine with it.  When he talks about a TA passing he is talking about the Fleet Service contract.  We AMTs know that the buyout package bought the yes votes for our TA.  NYer enjoys longevity pay & 100% sick pay.  These two things are something AMTs have not had for over eleven years.  We were also forced to take an extra 2.5% pay cut than FS or Stores,  but not a peep from NYer about how this is not what unionism is all about.  Hypocrisy seems to run rampant in the FS work group as he and others who continue to spew their wacked version of reality must be frightened the AMTs might actually get away from them someday.  Oh yeah, also helps NYer and friends that the ATD is loaded up with Fleet Service Clerks who will no doubt look out for them while continuing to force unfair and inferior benefits on AMTs.  Do you think NYer would be ok with the AMTs getting longevity and sick time and a 2.5% raise before FS gets a single thing?  Of course not.  Is it any wonder why so many AMTs want out of the TWU?  I only hope more of us wake up in time to get AMFA on the ballot so we can be done with NYer and the TWU and the alliance.  NYer's opinion seems to be that FS deserves above standard pay and better benefits while AMTs stay at the bottom of the industry in pay while living with inferior benefits to boot.  With union "Brothers" like him who needs enemies?

 
Typical tactic from those that cannot refute the shared information. Let's personally attack the messenger.
 
The reality remains that Local Presidents negotiate the contracts at every title group, but the same Presidents that don't deliver the promised goods also blame the International, the other title groups and the Company.
 
The answer must be AMFA...The union that was started by AA TWU mechanics in 1961 and has represented many of the airlines within the industry, except AA and that have been voted out by others or have just lost their Members to failed strategies like in Northwest.
 
You can try to kill the messenger, but it seems the message still gets through.

 

[Duke787]

Typical tactic from those that cannot refute the shared information. Let's personally attack the messenger.
 
The reality remains that Local Presidents negotiate the contracts at every title group, but the same Presidents that don't deliver the promised goods also blame the International, the other title groups and the Company.
 
The answer must be AMFA...The union that was started by AA TWU mechanics in 1961 and has represented many of the airlines within the industry, except AA and that have been voted out by others or have just lost their Members to failed strategies like in Northwest.
 
You can try to kill the messenger, but it seems the message still gets through.

It all makes sense now, the highest paid rampers certainly don't want the mechs to leave the association, it might have an impact on them.

 

[TRAVIS]

 
"Delta's spending on outsourced maintenance has grown from a third to almost half of its nonlabor maintenance expense in recent years, according to government figures, after the carrier contracted out virtually all of its major aircraft overhauls. Such overhauls, which involve extensive inspections every six years or so, once filled many of Delta's hangar bays. The changes are part of Delta's effort over the past few years to cut costs and rework processes to mirror industry trends. Along the way, Delta cut its 9,500-employee maintenance staff by a third and shuttered hangars in Tampa, Dallas-Fort Worth and Atlanta." (source Atlanta-Constitution 2007)
 
"A News 8 investigation of San Antonio Aerospace, a unit of Singapore Technologies, found that hundreds of foreign workers were imported to work on the aircraft of U.S. carriers at the company's sprawling facility in San Antonio. Delta Air Lines and UPS are among San Antonio Aerospace customers...the San Antonio airport facilities.ST Aerospace in Mobile, Alabama also employed hundreds of low-wage foreign workers, many of whom were from overseas, News 8 found." (source WFAA 2011)
 
Seems as if your favorite airline for mechanics is actually making even harder to get the compensation and job security you crave. Maybe AMFA would do a better service by organizing Delta, rather than spending so many years on a work force that is already unionized.

Well Mr know it all, YOU need to go to one of them FACILITIES, ST Aerospace in Mobile and San Antonio Aerospace and see all the AA/US AIRCRAFT IN THE BAYS That the IAM/TWU UNIONS HAVE LET THE COMPANY FARM OUT!!! 
I need to go! will you get the ______ off my coattails ! 
Riding coattails: This can often be used as a generic phrase for anyone that hangs onto another person as they forge ahead, without effort from the hanger-on.
IF YOU THINK THE STATEMENT IS WRONG..... THEN WHY ARE YOU GUYS TRYING SO HARD TO KEEP THE AMT's AND WHY DO YOU CARE WHAT UNION WE ARE IN !! IT'S STILL A UNION??????
I'm NOT ATTACKING THE MESSENGER, I'm TELLING YOU WERE TO GET OFF....

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

 
Typical tactic from those that cannot refute the shared information. Let's personally attack the messenger.
 
The reality remains that Local Presidents negotiate the contracts at every title group, but the same Presidents that don't deliver the promised goods also blame the International, the other title groups and the Company.
 
The answer must be AMFA...The union that was started by AA TWU mechanics in 1961 and has represented many of the airlines within the industry, except AA and that have been voted out by others or have just lost their Members to failed strategies like in Northwest.
 
You can try to kill the messenger, but it seems the message still gets through.

 
NYer
 
This statement tells us all really what you know, Although the Local sends a President or a representative to the Negotiations they Do Not sit at the Table with the ATD and the Company.
 
Do you really think that a aircraft mechanic/Fleet clerk/Material Distribution clerk/Facilities mechanic has enough skill to interpret labor laws in every state, has enough contract skills to go up against the legal teams that AA brings to the table come on man. 
 
The ATD sits and makes a deal in which they feel will benefit the group as a whole. The company gives the unions a slice of the company Pie it is then up to the union to give each work group enough of that pie to satisfy them. Getting each group to buy off on its T/A gets the ATD what they want. The UNion is a business just as AA is. They want to make money as well. Members of the TWU/IAM/IBT ATD's make a substantial amount of money above the members. They also reap all the bennies we get but don't have to suffer under the deals in which they make. The ATD members are taken care of by the Unions and live high on the Hog as they say while the working stiffs go pay check to paycheck with out raises and improvements for yrs. I bet the ATD did not take concessions like we did in 2003, Now did they?
 
At the end of this contract we still won't be were we would of been with the 2001 deal.
It won't be until 2018 or so until we see a JCBA with the USAirways guys. The money we have gotten in supposed raise is just returning some of what they gave away.

 

[MetalMover]

 
NYer
 
This statement tells us all really what you know, Although the Local sends a President or a representative to the Negotiations they Do Not sit at the Table with the ATD and the Company.
 
Do you really think that a aircraft mechanic/Fleet clerk/Material Distribution clerk/Facilities mechanic has enough skill to interpret labor laws in every state, has enough contract skills to go up against the legal teams that AA brings to the table come on man. 
 
The ATD sits and makes a deal in which they feel will benefit the group as a whole. The company gives the unions a slice of the company Pie it is then up to the union to give each work group enough of that pie to satisfy them. Getting each group to buy off on its T/A gets the ATD what they want. The UNion is a business just as AA is. They want to make money as well. Members of the TWU/IAM/IBT ATD's make a substantial amount of money above the members. They also reap all the bennies we get but don't have to suffer under the deals in which they make. The ATD members are taken care of by the Unions and live high on the Hog as they say while the working stiffs go pay check to paycheck with out raises and improvements for yrs. I bet the ATD did not take concessions like we did in 2003, Now did they?
 
At the end of this contract we still won't be were we would of been with the 2001 deal.
It won't be until 2018 or so until we see a JCBA with the USAirways guys. The money we have gotten in supposed raise is just returning some of what they gave away.

Exactly! Everything we lost will become a bargaining chip all over again...."You guys want THAT? Well you have to give us THIS!

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

Exactly! Everything we lost will become a bargaining chip all over again...."You guys want THAT? Well you have to give us THIS!

 
Correct, the TWU and its ATD leaders have failed the members.
 
Being without a snap back clause means we start from where we are in Negotiations NOT from where we were.
 
All the TIME and MONEY that was spent by the TWU (YOUR Dues) to get what we had as far as pay/vacation/Holidays all bargained away.
 
What guys fought for many yrs ago and walk the picket lines for just given away for what, a few pennies and maybe another few yrs of your jobs.
 
Eastern/TWA/Continental/United/Delta etc.. all outsourced work but are being paid more than us. AA and the TWU have kept us at the Bottom for so long Now and have made most think that being the # 1 airline is most important that you over LOOK your family obligations for just a "T" shirt and a slice of pizza. You think getting your picture taken with the customer service cup or the employee appreciation days is because they really care.
 
The Pilots and FA get more than we do each time the contracts become amendable.
 
NYer still has not answered the question why Fleet service does NOT want the mechanics to leave the TWU.  Neither has any of the other fleet guys who post here.
 
I just don't understand WHY it makes a difference to them, What we do does not effect them, or does it? lol.....
 
It's time to wake up mechanics of AA the NMB will give us a decision soon, Are You willing to be placed under the ruling thumb of the IAM for Two yrs and have a mixture of IAM and TWU sitting at the table attempting to pad the pockets of both of these unions or will You sign a card and send them Packing.

 

[NYer]

It all makes sense now, the highest paid rampers certainly don't want the mechs to leave the association, it might have an impact on them.

 
It makes no difference and it makes less sense since each title group has a separate Association agreement. Instead of complaining so much, the work should be to get everyone to sign AMFA cards, this might be your last chance. That's the real reason for M&R to be opposed to the Association, it makes an AMFA takeover virtually impossible.
 
AMFA has been trying to get in for at least a decade and there are many less mechanics now than in 2001, 2003 and even 2012...but they still can't get 50% of people to sign cards.....Sad.