TWU and IAM representation alliance vote

[NYer]

 

We gave up in 2003...

 

 
Sure. We should of fought and made it easier to have our pensions frozen or terminated sooner...maybe let them take some more outsourcing sooner...or we could have paid more in medical a decade sooner. Sounds reasonable especially with all the examples of winning campaigns by other work forces in a depressed airline economy.

 

[swamt]

You're confused. I'm not stating that you said anything. I said that only you know (not me) how you would vote if given the choice to provide yourself more at the expense of someone else? (Note the question mark)

You seem slightly standoffish about the subject? Why is that?

Number 1-  I would note vote for anything for myself at the expense of anyone.  2-  I am not confused, at all.  Standoffish? C'mon, you know where you were trying to go and I won't let it happen.  Just like I will will not let 700 and WT get away with it either,  comprendae?

 

[swamt]

 
FACT--AMFA used to have 20,000 Members at one point. Correct?
INCORRECT
 
FACT--AMFA currently has about 2,000 Members. Correct?
INCORRECT
 
FACT--There are more ex-AMFA Members that voted them out than current AMFA Members. Correct?
INCORRECT
 
FACT--AMFA has been trying to organize AA for a decade, with no success. Correct?
INCORRECT
 
FACT--AMFA allows outsourcing at the two remaining shops it still represents. Correct?
If you mean SWA and Alaska, yes, they do some outsourcing, just like ALL the other airlines do.
 
FACT--AMFA could be getting cards signed right now and have their name of the representation ballot along with the Association. Correct?
INCORRECT-AMFA IS getting cards signed
 
The best argument for AMFA seems to be that they're not the TWU and everyone votes for everything.
INCORRECT Yet again..
 
You need to get better informed before you decide to spout off there chief, you look pathetic...

 

[swamt]

 
 
SWAMT
 
You have been a great supporter of our cause but what have you done with your fellow workers to influence the NEC and the AMFA Locals to get behind this fight here at AA and make AMFA a Big player in the Airline BIZ?

You have been told by wnmech as well as myself.  AMFA National will not get involved in an organizing campaign.  It will be done by a true grass roots effort.  National has spent a little money as has local 11 out of Dallas to help you guys out.  But, from what I am hearing the funds are no longer available to assist as we are knee deep in alot of nego's, arbitrations, and other items that I will not go into detail here.  We (AMFA and local 11) have dumped thousands upon thousands of dollars each and every month to help the NWA guys out, to help and support the AA guys in many past campaigns and currently we need to focus on our own.  There comes a time when the members just say, "quit spending our money on those items and refocus those funds on our current problems.  It is time for us to focus on our own.  We really do need all the outside distractions at this time.  I have gotten National involved in the past.  I also support you guys 100% coming on board.  But there are some at certain levels that now want nothing to do with it.  I hope you understand but I fully understand if you do not.  You guys really need to get this done this time as after this time it will all go by the waste side.  I am telling you right now that once this alliance is in place you guys will have to deal with them for rest of the existance of the new AA and beyond.  This is no threat, it is a fact and I think you know this.  If the guys at AA and US do not see this as this alliance group is trying to force this crap down the members throats then they will have to deal with it for their entire careers and all careers behind them coming in.  Sorry to be so cold on this issue, but, after so many dollars have been spent, the AMFA  folks are tired of spending the cash...

 

[NYer]

 

 
FACT--AMFA used to have 20,000 Members at one point. Correct?
INCORRECT
 
FACT--AMFA currently has about 2,000 Members. Correct?
INCORRECT
 
FACT--There are more ex-AMFA Members that voted them out than current AMFA Members. Correct?
INCORRECT
 
FACT--AMFA has been trying to organize AA for a decade, with no success. Correct?
INCORRECT
 
FACT--AMFA allows outsourcing at the two remaining shops it still represents. Correct?
If you mean SWA and Alaska, yes, they do some outsourcing, just like ALL the other airlines do.
 
FACT--AMFA could be getting cards signed right now and have their name of the representation ballot along with the Association. Correct?
INCORRECT-AMFA IS getting cards signed
 
The best argument for AMFA seems to be that they're not the TWU and everyone votes for everything.
INCORRECT Yet again..
 
You need to get better informed before you decide to spout off there chief, you look pathetic...

 

 
You say incorrect about the 20000 Members, Here is the fact..."AMFA has shrunk from nearly 20,000 members several years to about 11,000 members at seven airlines One of the union's biggest challenges is overcoming the defeat it suffered two years ago at the end of a 14-month strike at Northwest Airlines. From 4,400 members before the strike, its ranks dwindled to several hundred members, said Steve McFarlane, AMFA's national director." ( source Chicago Tribune, January 2008)
 
You say incorrect about currently having around 2000 Members. Here is the fact..."Alaska Airlines' 623 aircraft technicians, cleaners and fleet-service employees are represented by the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association (AMFA).(source Alaska Airlines)...."AMFA represents approximately 1,750 Southwest Airlines Aircraft Maintenance Technicians..." (source Southwest Airlines)
 
You say incorrect about there being more ex-AMFA that voted them out than current Members. Here is the fact..."The Teamsters garnered 4,113 votes compared with 2,631 for AMFA out of 8,631 eligible workers, according to the National Mediation Board." (Source Chicago Tribune April 2008) AMFA doesn't have 4000 Members.
 
You say incorrect about AMFA trying to organize AA for a decade. Actually you may be right on this. It looks to be about 53 years. "O.V. Delle-Femine, commonly referred to as "Dell," spent a stint as an Air Force mechanic during the ‘50s, and then was hired by American Airlines for a job at LaGuardia Airport in New York. Naturally gregarious and inclined toward politics, Dell began attending union meetings. The Transport Workers Union (TWU) represented American’s mechanics; back then (and currently), the TWU was a broadbased union that represented more bus drivers and subway workers than aircraft mechanics. In 1968 Dell left American Airlines to devote his time to building a union that solely represents airline mechanics, and thus AMFA the journey began." (source AMFA)
 
Oh well, let's not let facts get in the way.

 

[swamt]

 
You say incorrect about the 20000 Members, Here is the fact..."AMFA has shrunk from nearly 20,000 members several years to about 11,000 members at seven airlines One of the union's biggest challenges is overcoming the defeat it suffered two years ago at the end of a 14-month strike at Northwest Airlines. From 4,400 members before the strike, its ranks dwindled to several hundred members, said Steve McFarlane, AMFA's national director." ( source Chicago Tribune, January 2008)
 
You say incorrect about currently having around 2000 Members. Here is the fact..."Alaska Airlines' 623 aircraft technicians, cleaners and fleet-service employees are represented by the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association (AMFA).(source Alaska Airlines)...."AMFA represents approximately 1,750 Southwest Airlines Aircraft Maintenance Technicians..." (source Southwest Airlines)
 
You say incorrect about there being more ex-AMFA that voted them out than current Members. Here is the fact..."The Teamsters garnered 4,113 votes compared with 2,631 for AMFA out of 8,631 eligible workers, according to the National Mediation Board." (Source Chicago Tribune April 2008) AMFA doesn't have 4000 Members.
 
You say incorrect about AMFA trying to organize AA for a decade. Actually you may be right on this. It looks to be about 53 years. "O.V. Delle-Femine, commonly referred to as "Dell," spent a stint as an Air Force mechanic during the ‘50s, and then was hired by American Airlines for a job at LaGuardia Airport in New York. Naturally gregarious and inclined toward politics, Dell began attending union meetings. The Transport Workers Union (TWU) represented American’s mechanics; back then (and currently), the TWU was a broadbased union that represented more bus drivers and subway workers than aircraft mechanics. In 1968 Dell left American Airlines to devote his time to building a union that solely represents airline mechanics, and thus AMFA the journey began." (source AMFA)
 
Oh well, let's not let facts get in the way.

I read 2 lines and stopped.  Your still incorrect.  Get it right. Get educated. SWA has well over 1750 mechs chief-get right.  I am sooooo tired of you guys that post untruths and misinformation. You sir are going by very old information, get into the 2014's.  Stop believing the lies from the TWU and IAM about AMFA, as you look like an idiot and moron...

 

[TRAVIS]

You have been told by wnmech as well as myself.  AMFA National will not get involved in an organizing campaign.  It will be done by a true grass roots effort.  National has spent a little money as has local 11 out of Dallas to help you guys out.  But, from what I am hearing the funds are no longer available to assist as we are knee deep in alot of nego's, arbitrations, and other items that I will not go into detail here.  We (AMFA and local 11) have dumped thousands upon thousands of dollars each and every month to help the NWA guys out, to help and support the AA guys in many past campaigns and currently we need to focus on our own.  There comes a time when the members just say, "quit spending our money on those items and refocus those funds on our current problems.  It is time for us to focus on our own.  We really do need all the outside distractions at this time.  I have gotten National involved in the past.  I also support you guys 100% coming on board.  But there are some at certain levels that now want nothing to do with it.  I hope you understand but I fully understand if you do not.  You guys really need to get this done this time as after this time it will all go by the waste side.  I am telling you right now that once this alliance is in place you guys will have to deal with them for rest of the existance of the new AA and beyond.  This is no threat, it is a fact and I think you know this.  If the guys at AA and US do not see this as this alliance group is trying to force this crap down the members throats then they will have to deal with it for their entire careers and all careers behind them coming in.  Sorry to be so cold on this issue, but, after so many dollars have been spent, the AMFA  folks are tired of spending the cash...
 

This sucks! Two UNIONS only want my due money and ONE wont spend the money to get my DUES money.
AMFA has the TWU and IAM right were they want them showing Total Disregard for it's members with only wanting the dues split and total failure my the IAM to deliver a TOP of the curve or even MID of the curve contract for it's members with the COMPANY making RECORD PROFITS, they give us a BK contract.
AMFA Should be going for the THROATS of the IAM and TWU as this is more than likely their best chance to boot them to the curb. Fliers From the National To down play the TWU and IAM half truths and flat out BS LIES also Info meetings  by AMFA National Members to show the AA and US Airways members THEIR IS A BETTER WAY AND A BETTER WAY TO SPEND YOUR MONEY TO HAVE A UNION WORK FOR YOU AND NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND.
Somebody at AMFA National needs to get off their A$$ and start to use some Common Sense.  (HOW MANY DUES PAYING MEMBERS WILL YOU GAIN)!!!!!

 

[WeAAsles]

This sucks! Two UNIONS only want my due money and ONE wont spend the money to get my DUES money.
AMFA has the TWU and IAM right were they want them showing Total Disregard for it's members with only wanting the dues split and total failure my the IAM to deliver a TOP of the curve or even MID of the curve contract for it's members with the COMPANY making RECORD PROFITS, they give us a BK contract.
AMFA Should be going for the THROATS of the IAM and TWU as this is more than likely their best chance to boot them to the curb. Fliers From the National To down play the TWU and IAM half truths and flat out BS LIES also Info meetings  by AMFA National Members to show the AA and US Airways members THEIR IS A BETTER WAY AND A BETTER WAY TO SPEND YOUR MONEY TO HAVE A UNION WORK FOR YOU AND NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND.
Somebody at AMFA National needs to get off their A$$ and start to use some Common Sense.  (HOW MANY DUES PAYING MEMBERS WILL YOU GAIN)!!!!!

Perhaps they see it as losing proposition to put in the effort (and money) and are just being polite when you contact them? Otherwise you are correct that with so much money to gain if you were to cross over, if they felt the chances were good you would be receiving some assistance.

It seems like from the things I read (right on this thread) that you just might be more interested in them then they are in you? Where do you go from there?

 

[WeAAsles]

Number 1-  I would note vote for anything for myself at the expense of anyone.

Good. I hope you mean it. I'm not always so sure when I actually talk to people one on one what they really would do. But if you are being truthful I can bet that you're the exception to the rule for most.

 2-  I am not confused, at all.

About what? For the third time I said I can't ever possibly know what you think since those thoughts are your own. Why are you having such a difficulty understanding that? 

 Standoffish? C'mon, you know where you were trying to go and I won't let it happen.

I'm not trying to go anywhere with you. What you "think" I'm trying to do again is in your own mind.

 Just like I will will not let 700 and WT get away with it either,  comprendae?

 

 

[TRAVIS]

Perhaps they see it as losing proposition to put in the effort (and money) and are just being polite when you contact them? Otherwise you are correct that with so much money to gain if you were to cross over, if they felt the chances were good you would be receiving some assistance.

It seems like from the things I read (right on this thread) that you just might be more interested in them then they are in you? Where do you go from there?

IBT any one but THE IAM OR TWU!!!!!

 

[WeAAsles]

IBT any one but THE IAM OR TWU!!!!!

So what happens when the IBT can't or doesn't produce for you either? How many places do you shop around at spinning your wheels? Who do you go shopping for next that you think is going to hand you that magic pill to solve all your issues?

Seems pretty counterproductive if you ask me.

 

[TRAVIS]

So what happens when the IBT can't or doesn't produce for you either? How many places do you shop around at spinning your wheels? Who do you go shopping for next that you think is going to hand you that magic pill to solve all your issues?

Seems pretty counterproductive if you ask me.

Don't piss on my back and tell me it's raining. I will do my best to get rid of the IAM or TWU or both of these worthless unions any way I can. I would VOTE non-UNION rather than have them. DELTA not looking to bad right now.
They may be doing a good job for ramp rats and auto mech's but as a LICENSED A&P THEY HAVE DEVASTATED MY CAREER WITH PISS POOR CONTRACTS AND FLAT OUT FAILURE TO SUPPORT THE AMT MEMBERS.

 

[WeAAsles]

Don't piss on my back and tell me it's raining. I will do my best to get rid of the IAM o

Don't piss on my back and tell me it's raining. I will do my best to get rid of the IAM or TWU or both of these worthless unions any way I can. I would VOTE non-UNION rather than have them. DELTA not looking to bad right now.
They may be doing a good job for ramp rats and auto mech's but as a LICENSED A&P THEY HAVE DEVASTATED MY CAREER WITH PISS POOR CONTRACTS AND FLAT OUT FAILURE TO SUPPORT THE AMT MEMBERS.

I guess if you say it enough you might get a few other people to believe that all the fault needs to be directed at your union and not so many other factors instead. You can say it as often as you like but it doesn't make it so.

Even if you use caps lock.

 

[TRAVIS]

ame="TRAVIS" post="1126075" timestamp="1413954537"]
Don't piss on my back and tell me it's raining. I will do my best to get rid of the IAM o

I guess if you say it enough you might get a few other people to believe that all the fault needs to be directed at your union and not so many other factors instead. You can say it as often as you like but it doesn't make it so.

Even if you use caps lock.
 
 
 

I would not have even brought that POS CONTRACT to the members to even vote on! I VOTED NO!

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

 
With the Association the TWU continues to be your union. The only way for the IAM to become your union is to have a vote between the parties, which they'd have a fair chance of winning considering how many have blasted the TWU for most of their careers. 
 
Therefore, the hypocrisy lies in those that talk so much against the IAM and at the same time want a vote that would open the door for the IAM to win a vote and become your exclusive representative.
 
It doesn't seem many on here things these things through. Then again, the main agenda on these pages seems to be to promote a union that has failed in their attempt to represent TWU Members at AA for about 53 years.

 
"...With the Association the TWU continues to be your union. The only way for the IAM to become your union is to have a vote between the parties..."
 
Really? Well lets just see what the IAM-TWU joint agreement for Mechanics and related has to say about that, shall we?
 
Per Paragraph 4 of the joint agreement.
 

The association hereby designates the IAM and/or its affiliates to handle representation for contract administration and for other representation purposes that may be authorized by the association for those employees in the craft and class of Mechanics and Related employees at the carrier, who are employed by the carrier, at stations bases or facilities as listed on Appendix B hereto as "IAM Locations"
 

 
....And just so you know.... from the "DUES" Q&A
 

 
Q: Would my dues remain the same even if responsibility for my location shifts to a different Alliance member?
A: No. Dues will be determined under the Constitution and bylaws of the Union with representation responsibility for the location.

 
 
So again, you prove you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
 
Well Done.