La Li Lu Le Lo
Veteran
- May 29, 2010
- 7,402
- 2,649
Bob Owens said:
Tulsa AMT movement.
- Thread starter chilokie1
- Start date
bob@las-AA
Veteran
This has been going on since AA hung its shingle since day one. Why should this surprise you.toroshark said:
He may have "0" lead time, 30 yrs mech. He still carries his seniority with him. Now just to clarify a little more. 30 yr mech bids lead (CC) position, he is awarded last open position after all existing leads are placed. For all bids after initial entry to lead he carries his 30 yrs with him. Just because someone else with 6 months seniority bids into lead classification and later has 5 yrs total seniority and 5 yrs 6 months from being hired as a mech the 30 yr man has more seniority than the mech in the same classification (leads, CC's, inspection etc...) I believe this is the same for the AA'ers and TWU. Over at US then the man with 5 yrs and 6 mo's with 5 yrs as a lead would have more classification seniority than the 30 yr man with 6 mo's lead time. This is in fact taking seniority away from the 30 year man. Now don't get me wrong I do understand all the theories about why some like it the way US does it, but, it still not correct. Seniority is everything you should take it wherever you go.700UW said:
Slopoke is correct, with the majority of guys on the TWU side of the fence, pretty sure the mechanic seniority to follow you everywhere will prevail. The US guys will then have to get used to the differences. And you never know they could very well draw a line with all existing leads, cc's, inspectors etc... Grandfathered in per say. Just don't know how they will work out all future bids and moves after that. All the changes that will be made will in fact produce some pain on the US side (my opinion) when some long time leads/CC's are surpassed by lower time leads/CC's that have many more years on them.
Slopoke you seem to have all this down about the different classification seniority and mechanic seniority. Can you think of other areas of this kind of major differences that will come up? This is only one example, I am assuming there are many more to come as these two unions come together as one has so many different ways of doing things; % pay at one and premium pay at another, different longevity rates of pay, different vac accrual, sick accrual are just some other small examples.---- How about when someone goes into management, what happens with his seniority? How is that worked out when he comes back from management (or forced back) these are some other things to think about that could very well affect the QOL at one side or the other.
- Banned
- #514
The 30 year man NEVER worked as a lead he has zero lead time, no way he should be senior to someone who has worked as a lead and is currently one.
And at PMUS if you go into management if you pay your dues for six months you get six months seniority, after that you stand still and people will pass you.
And at PMUS if you go into management if you pay your dues for six months you get six months seniority, after that you stand still and people will pass you.
ThirdSeatHero
Veteran
It is unfair to use EITHER the AA OR US seniority system in combining Leads & Inspectors
No current serving Lead or Inspector should have to lose seniority relative to his(or her) peers.
The solution is simple provided you can get your representatives to adhere to your wishes.
Use existing RANK position to combine current Lead & Inspector Lists of both airlines as of date of ratification of a JCBA.
For example - AA has 100 leads US has 50
Use their current rank on their individual lists to establish position - in other words #1 lead at AA then #1 lead at US and so on - NOT individual seniority date.
Combine the two lists and then red circle them ALL indicating that so long as they maintain their lead or inspector positions this first group of combined leads will ALWAYS be senior to any new leads or inspectors that come from future bids.
After all this - decide on which seniority system you wish to go with for future bids
Seniority - in whatever system is in place must always be respected.
Do not let the company's decision to merge set you at each other over this.
No current serving Lead or Inspector should have to lose seniority relative to his(or her) peers.
The solution is simple provided you can get your representatives to adhere to your wishes.
Use existing RANK position to combine current Lead & Inspector Lists of both airlines as of date of ratification of a JCBA.
For example - AA has 100 leads US has 50
Use their current rank on their individual lists to establish position - in other words #1 lead at AA then #1 lead at US and so on - NOT individual seniority date.
Combine the two lists and then red circle them ALL indicating that so long as they maintain their lead or inspector positions this first group of combined leads will ALWAYS be senior to any new leads or inspectors that come from future bids.
After all this - decide on which seniority system you wish to go with for future bids
Seniority - in whatever system is in place must always be respected.
Do not let the company's decision to merge set you at each other over this.
There is a topic for fleet service. Use it to discuss fleet service issues. http://www.airlineforums.com/topic/58058-2015-fleet-service-discussion/ This is for AMT's. Let's not start merging topics only to create more confusion when discussing issues pertaining to one group or another. Thank you.700UW said:
blue collar
Veteran
- Mar 17, 2008
- 1,241
- 901
I never liked the 'premium' seniority, I have always believed that your occupational seniority should be used no matter your job (mechanic, lead, inspector, lead inspector).
Another thing to note is that with different seniority types comes different OT lists, leads will always be behind a mechanic for mechanic OT, no matter how many hours they have.
Another thing to note is that with different seniority types comes different OT lists, leads will always be behind a mechanic for mechanic OT, no matter how many hours they have.
Real tired
Veteran
A great idea in theory, but it's going to be tough in execution, especially in the Premium positions.ThirdSeatHero said:
For example, the senior #1 AA Lead ( C/C, or Inspector) has 45 years company time and 1 day Lead time.
How can he be placed ahead of the #1 US Lead who has 35 years company time and 30 years Lead time?
Any way we decide to do it is going to hurt, and I can not think of any fair way to do it now that I found out these little tidbits of information on the way the TWU side does it.
I can't wait to see what our negotiating team comes up with when they FINALLY decide to get together.
Kev3188
Veteran
Should be either DOH or Classification seniority. My guess is that DOH will win the day. I'm a fan of classification seniority, but having had to go to DOH, I can say I've at least gotten used to it. I guess I'm lucky in that it hasn't negatively impacted me yet...
