Tulsa AMT movement.

[Buck]

 
I hate to throw in a little wrinkle, but if we get in our joint contract the classification seniorities, like inspector, crew chief, etc that USAirway has. It uses the date of entry into that classification, not the occupational date like we now have. In a nutshell, it could affect the seniorities of current AA crew chiefs, should we go that way. I have 86 occupational seniority and the possibility of going to a classification seniority is one big thing stopping me for bidding a crew chief position.

That will piss off a lot of the TWU Loyalists. I will still have 18 years as a Crew Chief. But then there are still stations Line or Overhaul to fill. Does USAir have a similar structure for Higher Capacity? 
Inspection, Crew Chief ( General and Avionics ) I do realize that our line has basically done away with the Avionics Crew Chief ????

 

[bigjets]

Yes however, there are many in Overhaul who are older, but not near retirement, who may be able to work the line, but could possibly bump those already there. Then there are those who are Crew Chief's who could bump Line Crew Chief's ( what would that look like? ) Be careful what you ask for. I have been here 31 years and even though I have had my battles medically, I could if forced to work the line. The other side is that I am a Crew Chief, are we just supposed ignore our seniority as a mechanic and or a Crew Chief?

 
Are we still laying off under the twu way where you go to open stations or are you going to where your seniority can put you?
 
 
look forward to seeing you in chicago, if you bump a CC so be it that's seniority. we have line mechs in their 60s still changing T&Bs, if you work as a CC you'll figure it out, you hand out jobs for 4 hours then you disappear for 4 hours, when you work a CS or 6 day, you get the CC curtesy and that doesn't mean extra work. 
 
Believe me when I say nobody fears Tulsa mechs seniority, we just feel bad that you have to be away from home or move your family's, but we also enjoy the fact that you have to work under a contract that you voted in at a line station.
 
We have seen lots of laid off mechs come into our stations over the years, DFW CLE DTW SJU BNA RDU MCI STL MSP AFW, all stations that were closed. TUL has been sheltered for such a long time, doesn't look like the TUL mechs will get the special treatment of y'll get to go to DFW and everybody else goes north.
 
don't worry you'll be fine, anyway see you soon

 

[Buck]

 
Are we still laying off under the twu way where you go to open stations or are you going to where your seniority can put you?
 
 
look forward to seeing you in chicago, if you bump a CC so be it that's seniority. we have line mechs in their 60s still changing T&Bs, if you work as a CC you'll figure it out, you hand out jobs for 4 hours then you disappear for 4 hours, when you work a CS or 6 day, you get the CC curtesy and that doesn't mean extra work. 
 
Believe me when I say nobody fears Tulsa mechs seniority, we just feel bad that you have to be away from home or move your family's, but we also enjoy the fact that you have to work under a contract that you voted in at a line station.
 
We have seen lots of laid off mechs come into our stations over the years, DFW CLE DTW SJU BNA RDU MCI STL MSP AFW, all stations that were closed. TUL has been sheltered for such a long time, doesn't look like the TUL mechs will get the special treatment of y'll get to go to DFW and everybody else goes north.
 
don't worry you'll be fine, anyway see you soon

No matter I will be one of the last to leave and I am single again. I will do what I have to. But this is not about me alone and I have never voted for anything the TWU has brought back. I hope that all of you line mechanics can truthfully say the same. I have been trying rid myself of the TWU for almost my entire career. Why would anyone fear another's seniority? It is the business, what the fear should be is that you cannot calculate TUL Seniority on seniority alone. YOu and it might prove to be a positive thing, might not have to worry about a non-licensed  AMT kicking you to the street, there are a lot of those who are pro TWU. NO one really knows what is going to happen with seniority. The last time the FED interfered and angered a lot of IAM people, right? The AA/Air Cal where both were TWU was a Dove Tail and I think the safest way is by date of hire. 

 

[700UW]

Seniority agreement has been agreed too it is dovetail.
 
But there are some differences need to be figured out as premium seniority is different between the CBAs.
 
And at PMUS there isnt title 1, 2, 3 etc....

 

[Buck]

Seniority agreement has been agreed too it is dovetail.
 
But there are some differences need to be figured out as premium seniority is different between the CBAs.
 
And at PMUS there isnt title 1, 2, 3 etc....

Ok, where does that place the Fleet Service or Stores in relation to the Mechanics?

 

[700UW]

Fleet is totally separate CBA has nothing to do with mechanics, at US Mechanic and Related are mechanics, stock clerks and utility and have their own CBA.
 
I had utility time and stores times, so I had a hire date,  an adjusted date, date under the CBA and date of classification, actually two dates of classification.

 

[swamt]

 
I hate to throw in a little wrinkle, but if we get in our joint contract the classification seniorities, like inspector, crew chief, etc that USAirway has. It uses the date of entry into that classification, not the occupational date like we now have. In a nutshell, it could affect the seniorities of current AA crew chiefs, should we go that way. I have 86 occupational seniority and the possibility of going to a classification seniority is one big thing stopping me for bidding a crew chief position.

 
 

That will piss off a lot of the TWU Loyalists. I will still have 18 years as a Crew Chief. But then there are still stations Line or Overhaul to fill. Does USAir have a similar structure for Higher Capacity? 
Inspection, Crew Chief ( General and Avionics ) I do realize that our line has basically done away with the Avionics Crew Chief ????

I agree with you Buck.  Have you heard anything on how they are going to merge these 2 different types of blending?  One has class, the other uses DOH for placements in CC's, inspectors, as well as other groups.  I still think this will be one of the major hold ups of the JCBA.  The problem here is it will have to go one of the 2 ways of doing it, depending on the way they go with it may very well be the cause of a failed vote.  Like you said if they go the way US currently does it all the TWU'ers will be pissed, and of vise versa.  Maybe there is a way to blend them both but I really don't see how, do you?  Anyone know which way the nego team is leaning on these types of issues?  I see the IAM is the one in charge for the first 2 years so maybe they will lean more towards the IAM's way of blending, however, there are way more TWU'ers than IAM'ers so if they were to pick the way the TWU is currently doing it, yes it would piss all the US guys off but the JCBA would still have a better chance at passing than going the IAM's way just because of the shear number differences.  This will get very interesting to watch to see how it may go.  Good luck guys as I know you all are always in the dark until something actually comes out for the vote...

 

[MetalMover]

 
 
I agree with you Buck.  Have you heard anything on how they are going to merge these 2 different types of blending?  One has class, the other uses DOH for placements in CC's, inspectors, as well as other groups.  I still think this will be one of the major hold ups of the JCBA.  The problem here is it will have to go one of the 2 ways of doing it, depending on the way they go with it may very well be the cause of a failed vote.  Like you said if they go the way US currently does it all the TWU'ers will be pissed, and of vise versa.  Maybe there is a way to blend them both but I really don't see how, do you?  Anyone know which way the nego team is leaning on these types of issues?  I see the IAM is the one in charge for the first 2 years so maybe they will lean more towards the IAM's way of blending, however, there are way more TWU'ers than IAM'ers so if they were to pick the way the TWU is currently doing it, yes it would piss all the US guys off but the JCBA would still have a better chance at passing than going the IAM's way just because of the shear number differences.  This will get very interesting to watch to see how it may go.  Good luck guys as I know you all are always in the dark until something actually comes out for the vote...

I love the "IAM IS IN CHARGE FOR THE FIRST TWO YEARS" logic.  This means squat because if the TWUers do no like what is brought back for a vote, it gets voted down. Plain and simple. 
With respect to the cc and inspection seniority issue, this could make or break the contract. TWU members wanting to bid premium positions may vote against it because they will not be able to carry their classification seniority if they bid for one of these positions..
Unlike the seniority agreement already reached, no one loses or gains seniority. but with a cc or inspector, somebody will gain and somebody will lose seniority. 
Maybe they could just apply the rule of each union depending on the station affected.

 

[700UW]

You dont lose classification seniority if you bid to a premium position under the IAM CBA.
 
The only difference really is that under the IAM CBA when you bid a lead job is that the day you are awarded it begins your premium time, not DOC like the TWU has.

 

[MetalMover]

You dont lose classification seniority if you bid to a premium position under the IAM CBA.
 
The only difference really is that under the IAM CBA when you bid a lead job is that the day you are awarded it begins your premium time, not DOC like the TWU has.

I am speaking of NOW if it were to change to one way or the other.. So for instance a CC at AA who has 30 years occupational but 1 year as a CC, you want him to automatically revert to the one year CC seniority? May seem fair to the IAM, not to us at the TWU. Like I said, if it were to go the IAM way, that 30 yr mechanic just got screwed and lost seniority.

 

[700UW]

So do you think it's fair that someone who moved or took a bad shift but has been a CC for years should be junior to someone that has more basic time than premium?

 

[Buck]

How much are the C/C and Inspector Premiums?

 

[Real tired]

I am speaking of NOW if it were to change to one way or the other.. So for instance a CC at AA who has 30 years occupational but 1 year as a CC, you want him to automatically revert to the one year CC seniority? May seem fair to the IAM, not to us at the TWU. Like I said, if it were to go the IAM way, that 30 yr mechanic just got screwed and lost seniority.

He didn't lose senority.  He still has his 30 years.
 
This logic is 180 degrees out of what we are used too.
 
There's no way I'll let a Lead with only 1 year of Lead time, and 30 years of company time, bump me with my 25 years Lead time and only 25 years of company time. 
 
Is that what you are saying?  If so, that stuff will never fly here.

 

[Real tired]

How much are the C/C and Inspector Premiums?

Do you mean pay?
 
If so, a Lead (C/C) is a "buck" seventy five ($1.75) per hour above the Mechanic base rate.

 

[Buck]

Do you mean pay?
 
If so, a Lead (C/C) is a "buck" seventy five ($1.75) per hour above the Mechanic base rate.

Sorry I was not clear, yes I meant money and at the IAM...