Tulsa AMT movement.

[WeAAsles]

Yes, they brought in $58 billion with 435000 employees or around $133,000 per employee while AA brought in $42 billion with 110,000 per employee or around $381,000 per employee. We greatly outproduce UPS, unfortunately our management team obviously does not manage their other costs nearly as well as UPS but we still produce far higher revenue and profits than UPS per employee. 

Alright back to the age old roundtree question then. How much Maintenance do they perform in house? What's their average overall employee costs in comparison to us?

 

[Bob Owens]

Who knows how our guys could negotiate it? Under your scenario of course not. I've got $6000.00 tied up. That would give me a lousy 6 months under your scenario. But what if it was a pre 65 bridge 60 to 65 that was subsidized at the employee rate?

There is another contract out there that does that only they use sick bank to fund it until it's exhausted. Any way you cut it I could see something coming back in the future. I don't really think the company wants all of us old farts flapping around (I know you disagree) It's either that or they're going to have to offer buyouts in the future to get us out the door?
 

 Thats an improvement over what I said for most but what about those who are married and get the benefit through their spouse? They lose their money. Either way AA eliminated our no cost plan and gets to keep our money. We should be able to roll it into an HSA.

 

[Bob Owens]

Alright back to the age old roundtree question then. How much Maintenance do they perform in house? What's their average overall employee costs in comparison to us?

 
 
Thats a company question, the answer is they perform more in house now than they did when we made around the same. 
 
 
How come we never hear that question with Fleet, the Pilots or Flight attendants even though we had more of them per plane than anyone else? In addition AA's in house maintenance is not all done by people at AMT pay rates, OSMs, parts washers etc make much less.
 
I dont consider myself a commodity to be discounted for volume. 
 
If we went by Line maint the raitio is around the same, then if you take OH payroll and average it out the wage is less than what they would pay to outsource it domestically, and IIRC UPS does limit outsourcing to Domestic facilities, unlike AA. 

 

[700UW]

Fred Astaire Owens.

UPS Farms out all overhaul.

 

[WeAAsles]

Thats an improvement over what I said for most but what about those who are married and get the benefit through their spouse? They lose their money. Either way AA eliminated our no cost plan and gets to keep our money. We should be able to roll it into an HSA.

First things first. Either the BK court solves the issue by allowing AA to dump retiree medical for actives? The company then makes its intentions known with OUR match? We get a little more clarity through the APFA grievance? Maybe we negotiate something with the funds or maybe we take AA to court?

Still not at any of those points yet.

 

[WeAAsles]

Thats a company question, the answer is they perform more in house now than they did when we made around the same. 
 
 
How come we never hear that question with Fleet, the Pilots or Flight attendants even though we had more of them per plane than anyone else? In addition AA's in house maintenance is not all done by people at AMT pay rates, OSMs, parts washers etc make much less.
 
I dont consider myself a commodity to be discounted for volume. 
 
If we went by Line maint the raitio is around the same, then if you take OH payroll and average it out the wage is less than what they would pay to outsource it domestically, and IIRC UPS does limit outsourcing to Domestic facilities, unlike AA.

Well I'll let you and 700 hash out that conversation on here. He and you know far more about it than I do. (Although all I did again was ask a question Bob)

And of course the negotiators and the company can hash that out on the big stage at the wooden table.

 

[700UW]

UPS has 427 Airplanes.
 
 
Employees
The strength of our company is our people, working together with a common purpose. We had approximately 435,000employees (excluding temporary seasonal employees) as of December 31, 2014, of which 354,000 are in the U.S. and 81,000are located internationally. Our global workforce includes approximately 75,000 management employees (38% of whom are part-time) and 360,000 hourly employees (47% of whom are part-time).
 
As of December 31, 2014, we had approximately 270,000 employees employed under a national master agreement and various supplemental agreements with local unions affiliated with the International Brotherhood of Teamsters (“Teamsters”). During 2014, the Teamsters ratified a new national master agreement with UPS that will expire on July 31, 2018.
 
We have approximately 2,600 pilots who are employed under a collective bargaining agreement with the Independent Pilots Association ("IPA"), which became amendable at the end of 2011. In February 2014, UPS and the IPA requested and received mediation by the National Mediation Board for the ongoing contract negotiations.
 
Our airline mechanics are covered by a collective bargaining agreement with Teamsters Local 2727, which became amendable November 1, 2013. In addition, approximately 3,100 of our auto and maintenance mechanics who are not employed under agreements with the Teamsters are employed under collective bargaining agreements with the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers (“IAM”). In 2014, the IAM ratified new collective bargaining agreements that will expire on July 31, 2019.
 
The experience of our management team continues to be an organizational strength. Nearly 34% of our full-time managers have more than 20 years of service with UPS.
 
We believe that our relations with our employees are good. We periodically survey all our employees to determine their level of job satisfaction. Areas of concern receive management attention as we strive to keep UPS the employer-of-choice among our employees. We consistently receive numerous awards and wide recognition as an employer-of-choice, resulting in part from our emphasis on diversity and corporate citizen

 

[Bob Owens]

UPS has 427 Airplanes.
 
 

Well if we count all the planes that AA codeshares with then AA has several thousand airplanes. I spoke to the pilots union on this years ago, That figure includes aircraft operated by vendors under contract with UPS, mostly in foreign countries that never come to the US. So a big UPS jet will fly into a terminal in some foreign country where a foreign operator under UPS contract will fly it to the next stop. Note that UPS has 2600 pilots. AA has 12000 pilots with 900 planes. The ratios didn't make sense, 6 pilots per plane at UPS vs 13 at AA. UPS only has around 200 planes that they operate. 
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UPS_Airlines

 

[700UW]

Because freighters don't fly as much as passenger airplanes, pretty simple to figure out. Most freighters fly two legs a day.

 

[Bob Owens]

Fred Astaire Owens.
UPS Farms out all overhaul.

Always did, so why has it become an excuse to make us work for less? 

 

[700UW]

And those 427 planes are owned, leased and operated by UPS, not outsourced.

And wiki is not a credible source.

 

[1AA]

Fred Astaire Owens.

UPS Farms out all overhaul.

And why do you care what UPS does?

 

[700UW]

Ask Bob

 

[1AA]

UPS has 427 Airplanes.
 
 
Employees
The strength of our company is our people, working together with a common purpose. We had approximately 435,000employees (excluding temporary seasonal employees) as of December 31, 2014, of which 354,000 are in the U.S. and 81,000are located internationally. Our global workforce includes approximately 75,000 management employees (38% of whom are part-time) and 360,000 hourly employees (47% of whom are part-time).
 
As of December 31, 2014, we had approximately 270,000 employees employed under a national master agreement and various supplemental agreements with local unions affiliated with the International Brotherhood of Teamsters (“Teamsters”). During 2014, the Teamsters ratified a new national master agreement with UPS that will expire on July 31, 2018.
 
We have approximately 2,600 pilots who are employed under a collective bargaining agreement with the Independent Pilots Association ("IPA"), which became amendable at the end of 2011. In February 2014, UPS and the IPA requested and received mediation by the National Mediation Board for the ongoing contract negotiations.
 
Our airline mechanics are covered by a collective bargaining agreement with Teamsters Local 2727, which became amendable November 1, 2013. In addition, approximately 3,100 of our auto and maintenance mechanics who are not employed under agreements with the Teamsters are employed under collective bargaining agreements with the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers (“IAM”). In 2014, the IAM ratified new collective bargaining agreements that will expire on July 31, 2019.
 
The experience of our management team continues to be an organizational strength. Nearly 34% of our full-time managers have more than 20 years of service with UPS.
 
We believe that our relations with our employees are good. We periodically survey all our employees to determine their level of job satisfaction. Areas of concern receive management attention as we strive to keep UPS the employer-of-choice among our employees. We consistently receive numerous awards and wide recognition as an employer-of-choice, resulting in part from our emphasis on diversity and corporate citizen

You work for UPS now? Just asking since you threw a bunch of info out there.

 

[Bob Owens]

UPS has 1200 line mechanics for 200 aircraft, AA has less than 4000 Lime mechanics for 900 aircraft.  So UPS has more Line mechanics per airplane than AA, 6 vs 4.
 
AA has in total around 6500 A&P mechanics, UPS Automotive and facilities mechanics are in a different contract. So counting OH we have around 7 A&Ps per aircraft to UPS 6.
 
So for 15% more A&Ps per airplane,  we earn around 50% less . 
 
http://www.ajc.com/news/business/ups-aircraft-mechanics-approve-new-contract/nQsKQ/#__federated=1
 
UPS= $50.31 an hour.
 
AA = $35.22
 
So using rough approximations from memory:
 
UPS medical is worth around $7000/year more than ours so subtract $3.35 from AA
 
AA- $31.85
 
UPS gets more vacation than we do, so subtract another $1.00
 
AA+ $30.85
 
UPS gets more Holidays at a Higher rate than we do so subtract another $3.90
 
AA= $26.98
 
UPD get shift pay' so subtract 50 cents
 
AA =$26.48
UPS gets a better pension than we do rough guess take another $3/hr off ours
 
AA=$23.48/hr/