Tulsa AMT movement.
- Thread starter chilokie1
- Start date
Exactly. And this explains why the AA guys just continue to allow the TWU to constantly continue to do so. Sad to see, but very factual. When they wake up and smell the coffee it will be too late. Still hoping your guys will get a clue before it is too late. Good luck brother you and yours are going to need it...La Li Lu Le Lo said:
WeAAsles
Veteran
- Oct 20, 2007
- 23,533
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Hey swamt in one of those AMFA updates I read one of those SWA managers told your guys that they want to be an "Ultra Low Cost Carrier" I know that wasn't Kelly who said that to your guys. Who was that? I forget now and would rather not have to search for it?
Man your group does provide a lot of very disheartening updates.
Man your group does provide a lot of very disheartening updates.
ThirdSeatHero
Veteran
WeAAsles said:
As opposed to what? Your groups disheartening actions? Thanks for the laugh
WeAAsles
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- Oct 20, 2007
- 23,533
- 5,262
Hey you enjoy that laugh. Lack of cash and a contract wouldn't have me laughing personally or maybe it would if that's the only thing I can have after 3 years?ThirdSeatHero said:
As opposed to what? Your groups disheartening actions? Thanks for the laugh
ThirdSeatHero
Veteran
WeAAsles said:
Cash? Cash? ..... Cash?
Oh the stuff that SWA AMFA mechanics have MORE of ...... while they wait.
La Li Lu Le Lo
Veteran
- May 29, 2010
- 7,413
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I am not going to need it. I was smart enough to walk away from this mess (and by that I mean the AA/TWU conglomerate) and start a new career.swamt said:
Once they froze the pension that was the beginning of the end of my career in the Airline business.
I will never forget.... I was in the shop getting my supplies together to go to the hanger and I overheard one of the old timers say "This is not a career anymore... it's a job, they took too much". I had doubts about leaving (American Airlines being one of the better paying employers in my area) before but that pretty much drove it home for me. I knew it was time to get out.
I unlike (I assume) most of the patrons of this forum have worked both sides at American Airlines (white and blue collar) and I have to say the white collar side was much more peaceful and productive. I did not feel miserable going to work every day like I did in Fleet Service. Given my experiences I can only conclude that the morale of the blue collar side is engineered by American Airlines and implemented with the cooperation of the TWU.
In order for a contract to be enforceable there has to be an exchange of value. What was exchanged? What would the damages be for breach of contract? We had a guy who was ousted from the TWU, a guy who was accepting gratuities from an employer, a guy who was trying to make the TWU merge with the CWA sign deals that harmed this Union and you are saying that we could not get out of them? Any deal can be broken, you should know that after 2003 and 2012. The fact is that they made the choice not to fight it, we are not party to the agreement and the law gives them the ability to manage the Union as they see fit, in theory the members have a democratic right to either change the leadership or change the bargaining representative.WeAAsles said:
Where does it say they wont? Where did I say the letter says anything about whether the intent is just going forward or going back? I said the letter only makes one thing clear, they intend to get us all in the IAMNPF and it does not set any limits as far as our frozen pension. You seem to be switching tactics here, in one post you are saying that we should not take anything off the table, defending the right to put anything on the table, now you seem to be saying that because it doesn't explicitely say that they are going after the Frozen Pension that they can't. Well this could be put to bed, all we need is a letter from the IAM and TWU saying there is not intent on including the Frozen part in there and that part of the discussion is over. The only answers we have received in writing is that they have not discussed, not that they will not entertain it.
Dont recall stating any number as far as mechanics because the number I saw was for the entire TWU. I said over 3000 TWU were not getting the full match. My guess is the vast majority would be Fleet Service because the average age of mechanics is around 55 and they would have been putting in around 5.5% prior to the match. I believe that we should be proposing a contribution, like the other Unions on the property got for their members and we should be asking for a parity with what the Pilots get. A 17% Contribution would cost more and put much more money in our pockets, money we could borrow against in the here and now and money we could pass on when we die. According to the IAM handout 10 years in the IAMNPF would be around an $850/month pension at 65, $382.5/month at 55 with ten years in the plan. So the total value on average would be around $96000 over a lifetime with around $40,000 in contributions. With the 17% contribution on all hours worked after 10 years a mechanic would accumulate roughly $200,000 with modest investment returns, if he matched that closer to $400,000. So under those terms a 45 year old mechanic today could probably retire at 55 but not under the IAMNPF terms. The monthly interest on his $200k would be more than his monthly pension payment from the IAMNPF. Lets say the Association was only able to get half of what the APA got for their members, that would still be worth considerably more, on average, than the IAMNPF and the more hours you work the more you get, unlike the IAMNPF.
Our argument in negotiations could be that since we do not get profit sharing we want a defined contribution to our 401K, something they have already agreed to with other work groups and down the road if competitors profit sharing disappeared the rate could be renegotiated. A 17% contribution still leaves AA ahead of Delta in that its only 11.5% more than they match now and Deltas profit sharing has been higher than 11%. Thats a fairly good starting point.
