blownkneesbob
Member
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2008
- Messages
- 96
- Reaction score
- 46
? Was this directed to my post ?
Transport Workers and Machinist Union to Jointly Represent Ground Workers at the "New" American Airl
- Thread starter 700UW
- Start date
Thomas Paine
Veteran
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2003
- Messages
- 583
- Reaction score
- 569
Really? Lorenzo did at both Continental and EAL and back in 2005 there were thousands of pilots without jobs as well. Thats not the case not for either group now.
Anybody can be replaced.
NW replaced the mechanics without much trouble.
EA went out of business because of the damage from the strike, Lorenzo was removed from the airline industry and banned.
The laws were different then they are now and you didnt have the TSA and the background requirements, plus all the training that has to be done.
You cant walk off the street and be a captain.
EA went out of business because of the damage from the strike, Lorenzo was removed from the airline industry and banned.
The laws were different then they are now and you didnt have the TSA and the background requirements, plus all the training that has to be done.
You cant walk off the street and be a captain.
Yes Oragatans in the cockpit and chimps in the galleys.
Thomas Paine
Veteran
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2003
- Messages
- 583
- Reaction score
- 569
Without much trouble? Really? 18 months and they still didn't have enough, they cut their operations by 20%, they spent more to bust AMFA than it would have cost to pay them and they eventually went out of business merging with non-union Delta who cleared out the IAM and AFA.
You cant just walk off the street and be a mechanic either, you have to be trained just like a pilot and the TSA applies to everyone even Fleet service and stores. Back in 2005 with an 18 month lead time NWA could have done the same thing to the pilots if they were willing to spend the money, but this isn't 2005 its 2013 and both of those skill sets are becoming scarce.
You were the one who said look how things worked out for the NWA mechanics, doing exactly what management wants Union people to do and look at that as a lesson on what happens if you don't roll over and kiss the bosses behind but as I pointed out the IAM and AFA no longer represent those workers either, and that was after both those unions rolled over and gave the company everything they asked for. So instead of saying look at how things worked out for the Mechanics at NWA , many of whom moved on and are doing better than they would have had they rolled over like your guys, you may want to be less of a management puppet and say look at what happened to all the Unions at NWA, including your IAM. Cooperation lead to the same end result, except at least the AMFA guys can say they went out swinging with top pay till the last day while your guys got screwed, then screwed again with barely a whimper, they just faded away.
By the way why is it OK for pilots (ALPA) and flight attendants (AFA) to desire and maintain craft unions but wrong for mechanics (AMFA)?
Kev3188
Veteran
Point of order: Neither the AFA or IAM gave the company anywhere near "everything" the company was asking for during BK.
700 thinks like a typical Industrial Unionist. No desire or concern for the craft or class.
Just suck up as many members as possible to keep the cash flowing. Pay for the private jets and triple digit salaries for the International officers. Pay for their union medical, union pensions and union cars. That's the TWU, IAM and IBT M.O.
AMFAinMIAMI
Veteran
Unions kiss and makeup at the airport: Fisticuffs to handshakes
For anyone with a long memory (and it doesn't have to be that long), last week's partnership announcement from the Transport Workers Union and the International Association of Machinists was full of juicy irony. Does anyone remember the brawl between these two unions at the Philadelphia Airport Marriott on Feb. 8, 2006?First, last week's news: The IAM and the TWU have created a partnership to represent nearly 30,000 ground mechanical and fleet service employees at the soon-to-be merged American Airlines and US Airways. The unions teamed up to combat a threat from the International Brotherhood of Teamsters. The Teamsters has filed a petition to represent US Airways mechanics, now represented by the Machinists union. The Teamsters also announced plans to try to get the mechanics now represented by the TWU at American to switch to become Teamsters.
"An unprincipled raid," the TWU and IAM harrumphed.
Now for the brawl in 2006: Same situation, a merger of two airlines. Entirely different approach. US Airways was merging with America West. The Machinists represented US Airways workers; the TWU represented those at America West. When TWU organizers came to Philadelphia, one of US Airways main hubs, to hold an information session in the hopes that TWU could represent the soon-to-be combined workforce, the Machinists took umbrage in a grand style.
Robert Boland, then the president of IAM Local 1776, had a dozen union members take off from their airport duties on Feb. 8. According to court documents, they gathered at the Jazz & Java coffee shop at the airport and strolled over to the Marriott, entering through a breezeway. When they got there, Boland and two other union officials went into the conference room the TWU rented and delivered an expletive-laced message: "We own ... Philadelphia, this is our ... city and you guys are to get out," the documents said, quoting Boland. "We're going to go to breakfast and we're going to be gone for about half an hour, and when we come back you guys had better be cleared out... I can't be held responsible for what these men outside are about to do."
Thirty minutes became about 30 seconds. A mob, about a dozen, entered the room and started throwing glasses and chairs. Fists flew next, court documents said.
The fight spread into the hotel's service corridors, with IAM members chasing TWU organizers who tried to flee the fracas. Police came. Arrests were made, 22 in all.
Over the years, two parallel cases made their way through the courts. Some of the men, including Boland, wound up being charged criminally in Philadelphia with aggravated assault, terroristic threats, conspiracy and simple assault. Ultimately, the charges were downgraded with those who remained in the case pleading guilty to simple assault. The men, including Boland, were sentenced to probation. After the incident, Boland was fired from US Airways, but remained president of Local 1776, although he isn't president now.
The TWU organizers, some of whom were badly injured, sued the men individually as well as Local 1776, plus the IAM in federal court in Philadelphia. Eventually, the number of defendants in the case narrowed to Local 1176 and seven men, including Boland, and Anthony Armideo, also spelled Armedio. He had moved up in union ranks around the time of the incident.
On Oct. 24, 2010, a jury "returned a verdict for Plaintiffs and against Defendants," awarding the organizers a total of $811,993. Since then, there have been a variety of motions on both sides, but the basic result stands.
That's the story: Hard to imagine that these two unions are now singing a duet!
That's the story: Hard to imagine that these two unions are now singing a duet!
“I am proud that our two great unions put the members first in a true demonstration of solidarity," said IAM International President Tom Buffenbarger said in the press release announcing the deal between the unions. “These agreements protect our members' representation, pensions and seniority. Working jointly with the TWU, we will ensure both unions' members are rewarded in this merger."
“This agreement allows us to use our combined strength and resources on behalf of all our members as we move forward at the new American Airlines,” said TWU International President James C. Little. “Both unions have decades of experience representing workers at US Airways and American Airlines and both unions are members of the AFL-CIO.”
You can click here to read the press release announcing the agreement and here to read one of the early stories the Inquirer ran on the brawl.
The TWU has screwed us here at AA for yrs, the IAM failed at CAL/TWA/UAL/USAir
How much more of the industrial way of doing things do you need to read before you sign an AMFA card? Just what is it going to take for the AA mechanics to realize that its not about our class and craft its all about them, and OUR Money.
The Time is NOW, for ALL AA Mechanics to stand together, say enough is enough.
Lets give these unions the boot from our class and craft.
AMFA at AA in 2013
robbedagain
Veteran
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2003
- Messages
- 11,125
- Reaction score
- 2,676
I remember that scuffle in phl
Your wrong here 700. NWA could put replacement pilots in place if they were givin the time to do so. This is where I have been saying the entire time, "AMFA IMO, waited way too long to strike." If they would have started the strike way back when NWA brought the very first mechanic on property to train it may have been different. I'm not saying it would have changed the outcome, but it would heve been much more difficult on the company. However, with all the other industrial unions on property willing to scab and cross AMFA's picket lines, and yes this also includes some AMFA members crossing as well, there was no way AMFA was going to win. Like I said before; it's a matter of "STRENGTH IN ACTIONS" not numbers when you have more than 75% of other unions on property willing to work "AGAINST" AMFA in order to get AMFA out of the industry. Little do these industrial unions realize that this "ACTION" from AMFA at NWA, helped their name more than hurt them. AMFA is the only union strong enough to take such "ACTION" in many, many decades. Now days the TWU's, the IAM's and the teamsters are all doing "BEHIND CLOSED DOOR" deals, giving away the farm, agreeing to massive concessions, job losses and rif's that have affected way more mechanics in our industry than any other. Companies don't want AMFA in as a direct relation to what AMFA did at NWA, this is why all the industrial unions are working with their respective companies to keep AMFA out. Would you want to go with a strong union that has the nads to do what it may take to get the companies attention? Or do you want a union who has constantly giving away the farm, jobs and cause havoc upon the members and families for well over the last 3 decades.
The time is now guys to get AMFA in at AA. Once this is done and they get the US air guys after integration, trust me, you guys will be much, much better off in the short and definitely in the long run. You guys will be overwhelmed on how well you will be informed, involved and how the mechanics run the union (entire union) and not the appointed officers making well over double six figures. It is all about the dues and the paychecks of the officers with the industrial unions. It's time to get democracy into your members representational union and bring AMFA in...
Didnt AMFA take concessions at UA?
Didnt AMFA's weak CBA language let AS close the OAK Heavy Maintenance base and farm out all the work?
Didnt AMFA lose a major status quo case at ACA that led to the company doing anything they wanted until a first cba was agreed too?
Didnt AFMA abandon the TS workers at the Shuttle?
Didnt AMFA abandon the OZ workers when TW bought them?
Didnt AMFA do nothing for the BN workers also?
No union is immune to the economic conditions that led to concessions in the airline industry.
Didnt AMFA's weak CBA language let AS close the OAK Heavy Maintenance base and farm out all the work?
Didnt AMFA lose a major status quo case at ACA that led to the company doing anything they wanted until a first cba was agreed too?
Didnt AFMA abandon the TS workers at the Shuttle?
Didnt AMFA abandon the OZ workers when TW bought them?
Didnt AMFA do nothing for the BN workers also?
No union is immune to the economic conditions that led to concessions in the airline industry.
700, as an outsider looking in, it seems that this "association" of the combined IAM and TWU, that there is a lot more in rewards for the two unions than is being let out. I am sure there is some kind of major pay-off for the 2 unions working into this "association" agreement and everyone will found out later on after it is too late to reverse it. Don't fall for the fake "association" guys, it's all gimmicks to continue the dues flow and for them to try and stay in the industry. You see it is just the airlines that merge, when one is in trouble they merge. Just like the ibt and cwa. Now the TWU is facing leaving the industry for representing mechanics, as well for the IAM at US, so they pull their last resort cards but it will be "TOO LITTLE-TOO LATE"
I still say AMFA waited too long. Gave company too much time to train...
Some of your answers to these questions are yes and some of them are no. However, your right no union immune to the economic conditions. HOWEVER; with AMFA you will not get "behind close door deals" you will not have the nego team agree to any change to the contract and the members not have a vote--NEVER!!! You will not have an AMFA union agreeing to concessions after concessions. As in your examples above: AMFA came in BEHIND the IAM and actually brought in better protections after the IAM gave them away. Read contract and see dates, IAM was in charge when they agreed to reductions, AMFA was in charge when they got better protections at UAL. The TWU was trying to push this issue during the AMFA card drive at AA, and they were proven wrong publically and all the accusers went away. I already told you AMFA did flaw in the NWA issue. However, the AMFA strike is the only strike called in decades by any union representing mechanics to help save the craft--PERIOD!! No other union has shown this kind of fight except AMFA!! All the other industrial unions have in fact (and yes they have admitted it) agreed to concessions, job losses and rif's. Or they just never put up a fight or tried to renegotiate the changes the company wanted. While the pilots at AA showed and proved that this is very possible to do.
Yes I understand AMFA has had their problems in the past, however, this does not even come close to what all 3 of the industrial unions have done to the class and craft of the mechanics in aviation... PERIOD--No comparison.
