Three 13 hour Shifts

[Flying low]

How can it only be for one dock only. Is this a management decision for the dock?

More than one dock, it would have been for hangers 1 & 2 - Docks 1A, 1B, 1C, 1D, 2A, and 2B (when it returns back to 737 work).
Docks 2B and 2D are currently being used for MD-80 work and don't fall under the management of hanger 1/2.

And to answer your question yes, it is the managers decision.

3/13's wasn't on the bid sheet, so we'll have to wait another 3 months to see if it comes into play.

 

[Bob Owens]

The contract only allows up to 12.

ARTICLE 3 – HOURS OF WORK
(a) The workday will consist of a twenty-four (24) hour period beginning at 12 o'clock midnight and a regular day's work will consist of not less than eight (8) hours and not more than twelve (12) hours.

I have to wonder who is driving this? Did it come from the floor or is it from guys in office who are not A&Ps who have a business on the side?

Tulsa reps were pushing for 13 hour shifts for Tulsa only prior to BK. Technically if they are paid 40 for 39 hours then its a pay raise (in addition to reduced commuting costs). If it were true we would grieve it, if the Grievance was denied it could drive a DFR.

 

[Keroseneuser]

It's hard to imagine a 15-16 hour day dedicated to this place. The would include travel time depending on your commute.
First day off to recover... 1 day before going back, just moping around the house thinking about those 13 hour days...

Sounds like they are trying to get the MX schedule more like the flight crew schedules. 3 or 4 on and 2 to 4 off.

A short day for a flight crew is 8 to 10 hours. Most days are in the 10 to 12 hour range not including travel to and from home/hotel. Scheduled time at least. Toss in weather delays and 12 to 16 is common.

Seems to me if they want to do that to other groups that are FAA certified you guys need to hit them up for the same required rest periods that pilots have. 13 hours is 13 hours no matter if it is in the flightdeck or hangar. Still have to have rest in between so you know your name. I don't want the guy fixing my airplane suffering from lack of sleep anymore than I want to be shooting an approach suffering from lack of sleep.

 

[1AA]

Sounds like they are trying to get the MX schedule more like the flight crew schedules. 3 or 4 on and 2 to 4 off.

A short day for a flight crew is 8 to 10 hours. Most days are in the 10 to 12 hour range not including travel to and from home/hotel. Scheduled time at least. Toss in weather delays and 12 to 16 is common.

Seems to me if they want to do that to other groups that are FAA certified you guys need to hit them up for the same required rest periods that pilots have. 13 hours is 13 hours no matter if it is in the flightdeck or hangar. Still have to have rest in between so you know your name. I don't want the guy fixing my airplane suffering from lack of sleep anymore than I want to be shooting an approach suffering from lack of sleep.

Hate to be the one to tell you this but most AMT's already work those many hours. It is called a second job to supplement the income that the TWU gave away.

 

[Desert Snake]

How do the custom shifts, especially the doubles work? Do you just tell them what you want to work? Is it all bid by seniority? I've never worked anywhere that had this. At US we can do doubles, but you have to find a swap partner to do them. Can someone shed some light on this. I work in PHX which is considered a line station. Our grave shift is all 10 hr. shifts and days and swings are 8 hr shifts.

 

[jimntx]

Sounds like they are trying to get the MX schedule more like the flight crew schedules. 3 or 4 on and 2 to 4 off.

A short day for a flight crew is 8 to 10 hours. Most days are in the 10 to 12 hour range not including travel to and from home/hotel. Scheduled time at least. Toss in weather delays and 12 to 16 is common.

Seems to me if they want to do that to other groups that are FAA certified you guys need to hit them up for the same required rest periods that pilots have. 13 hours is 13 hours no matter if it is in the flightdeck or hangar. Still have to have rest in between so you know your name. I don't want the guy fixing my airplane suffering from lack of sleep anymore than I want to be shooting an approach suffering from lack of sleep.

You probably already know this, but for those who might not know...the FAA in its infinite wisdom has determined that pilots are the only airline people that might suffer from fatigue. For flight attendants, the general rule is "Are they upright? Are their eyes open? Then, they are legal." The only FAA restriction on flight attendant duty days is that we can not be on duty 7 straight calendar days. Of course, the company can get around this by giving us a 24 (or more) hour layover somewhere. We are away from home. We are subject to reassignment at any time of the day or night. We are required to maintain contact with the company. But, the FAA says this is not "on duty", and therefore does not count in the 7-day restriction.

I can't imagine that they would put restrictions on ground personnel. After all, at some point they do get to go home and sleep in their own bed. (Even if it is 16-20 hours later.)

 

[Slopoke]

How do the custom shifts, especially the doubles work? Do you just tell them what you want to work? Is it all bid by seniority? I've never worked anywhere that had this. At US we can do doubles, but you have to find a swap partner to do them. Can someone shed some light on this. I work in PHX which is considered a line station. Our grave shift is all 10 hr. shifts and days and swings are 8 hr shifts.

The doubles at AA are just like yours, you need a "dancing partner" and trade shifts.

 

[Keroseneuser]

You probably already know this, but for those who might not know...the FAA in its infinite wisdom has determined that pilots are the only airline people that might suffer from fatigue. For flight attendants, the general rule is "Are they upright? Are their eyes open? Then, they are legal." The only FAA restriction on flight attendant duty days is that we can not be on duty 7 straight calendar days. Of course, the company can get around this by giving us a 24 (or more) hour layover somewhere. We are away from home. We are subject to reassignment at any time of the day or night. We are required to maintain contact with the company. But, the FAA says this is not "on duty", and therefore does not count in the 7-day restriction.

I can't imagine that they would put restrictions on ground personnel. After all, at some point they do get to go home and sleep in their own bed. (Even if it is 16-20 hours later.)

thats why i was sad to see the "me too" clause go away for our F/A's on this last contract of theirs. Until now at USairway east, the f/a's always worked under the pilot rest rules since they were crewed with us for the whole trip. The new contract wiped that away, i don't think they are going to like result in a few months. We have some very senior folks on the f/a side. I will not be surprised if you see a mass retirement trend happen over the next couple of years once the new schedules hit. Back to back to back 12 to 16 hour days with minimum rest is bound to be tough on folks in their late 50's, 60's and in some cases over here early 70's.

 

[jimntx]

I was so hoping that the co-pairing that LCC did would survive. Our contract here at AA calls for compensatory rest if the duty day is over a certain number of hours--10, I think--so, the company simply schedules the 13 hour day on the last day of the trip. That way, my "compensatory" rest is at home on my own time. Last Friday night, I had a 8 hour, 45 minute layover in Austin (was supposed to be 9.50, but due to a mechanical...). I got about 5 hours sleep because I have never been able to go to the hotel, get out of my uniform, and go straight to bed. I have to unwind at the end of the day. This was followed by a scheduled 12.20 duty day. In actual operation, it became a 14.49 duty day. (On last leg, PDX-DFW, we had to divert to TUL because of the storms in DFW; so, instead of arriving at DFW at 2105, we arrived at 2343.)

 

[Bob Owens]

Sounds like they are trying to get the MX schedule more like the flight crew schedules. 3 or 4 on and 2 to 4 off.

A short day for a flight crew is 8 to 10 hours. Most days are in the 10 to 12 hour range not including travel to and from home/hotel. Scheduled time at least. Toss in weather delays and 12 to 16 is common.

Seems to me if they want to do that to other groups that are FAA certified you guys need to hit them up for the same required rest periods that pilots have. 13 hours is 13 hours no matter if it is in the flightdeck or hangar. Still have to have rest in between so you know your name. I don't want the guy fixing my airplane suffering from lack of sleep anymore than I want to be shooting an approach suffering from lack of sleep.

Our union actually fought against stricter duty time limits!!!!!

 

[Flying low]

The contract only allows up to 12.

ARTICLE 3 – HOURS OF WORK
(a) The workday will consist of a twenty-four (24) hour period beginning at 12 o'clock midnight and a regular day's work will consist of not less than eight (8) hours and not more than twelve (12) hours.

I have to wonder who is driving this? Did it come from the floor or is it from guys in office who are not A&Ps who have a business on the side?

Tulsa reps were pushing for 13 hour shifts for Tulsa only prior to BK. Technically if they are paid 40 for 39 hours then its a pay raise (in addition to reduced commuting costs). If it were true we would grieve it, if the Grievance was denied it could drive a DFR.

Bob,
To answer your question I'm really not 100% sure if it came from the floor or management. All I know is that the manager wants to cut out OT on the weekends. Right now the 4/10's are working OT during the week to make up for a shortage of mechanics, and the 5/8's still work OT on the weekends. (in my opinion the shortage comes from AMT's that volunteered/forced to 4/10's leaving the week day work force short).

I may be blind, but I don't see how the 4/10 or 3/13's will cut out OT.

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob,
To answer your question I'm really not 100% sure if it came from the floor or management. All I know is that the manager wants to cut out OT on the weekends. Right now the 4/10's are working OT during the week to make up for a shortage of mechanics, and the 5/8's still work OT on the weekends. (in my opinion the shortage comes from AMT's that volunteered/forced to 4/10's leaving the week day work force short).

I may be blind, but I don't see how the 4/10 or 3/13's will cut out OT.

The 3/13s is an appeasement. It has nothing to do with OT other than they feel if they give the 3/13s they can use taking them away as a threat to boost productivity. Guys become dependant, they can build new homes or run their business or tend to their farm four full days a week and suppliment their income. With 5/8s they do those things the same days they work at AA and show up tired and less productive. They want you to hurry up on those checks so they can lay you off quicker when the work dries up as new planes are added.

They expect M&R to be down to just 6325 by 2017, remember we are already in 2013. There are around 4000 on the line. So between TAESL, DWH and Tulsa they are looking at 2300 guys. Do you really think they will keep three overhaul locations with just 2300 people?

 

[JAFI]

How do the custom shifts, especially the doubles work? Do you just tell them what you want to work? Is it all bid by seniority? I've never worked anywhere that had this. At US we can do doubles, but you have to find a swap partner to do them. Can someone shed some light on this. I work in PHX which is considered a line station. Our grave shift is all 10 hr. shifts and days and swings are 8 hr shifts.

By our current local agreement, days and afternoons would be able to double. Midnights cannot double with a 10 hour shift. You would log onto staff admin and put in for the days you will work and your partners shift. Management doesnt get involved unless there is a problem (ie someone doesnt show up or calls in sick). You work 16.5 hours not 17 hrs.

 

[Desert Snake]

By our current local agreement, days and afternoons would be able to double. Midnights cannot double with a 10 hour shift. You would log onto staff admin and put in for the days you will work and your partners shift. Management doesnt get involved unless there is a problem (ie someone doesnt show up or calls in sick). You work 16.5 hours not 17 hrs.

Ok, that's pretty much the way it is at US.

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob,
Our 3-13 in tulsa, will start on April 1(the start of our 3 month shift bids). Can the Company force
people to work this shift? Example. 3-13 afternoon, summer time, outside temps 110, open hanger 115.
Maybe a health problem for a senior mech( 60-67yrs old).?

I would grieve it. Contract says up to 12, pretty clear, what right does Tulsa have to strike a deal thats says something else. If someone only wants to work three days then let them do two doubles and a single.