Three 13 hour Shifts

[Bob Owens]

Most of the people I know at AA would be screwed without CSs!

Many only work 20 hrs a week to make this part time and work full time elsewhere.

I wonder if US allows giving away half of you hours?

True, but if they are only working 20 it probably means that before OT others are working 60. Both are working 60, the "part Timer" puts in 40 at his primary job then at least 20 at AA. Its still 60 and he is probably still fatigued. Between the two of them they are supplying 50% more labor and contributing to the vicious cycle that keeps driving down wages.

Duty times may only directly affect the guys working CSWs but eventually the guys giving the days away would run out of people who could work for them. The guys giving the days away would probably quit, removing not only their labor but also the ability for the guy to work 60 hours at the lower straight time rate. The company would have to pay OT instead. The company would be forced to try and get more workers and they would have to offer better wages because there would be less supply.

 

[Jager]

I'll call mach 85er out on refusing an airplane...

99.9% of AA's pilots don't have the cahoonas to refuse a legal airplane..

Over my 29 years in the airlines, I've laid it down with the pilots on the jetbridge that the aircraft is legal and the balls in their court..

I've called the chief pilot down a quite a few times here at DFW to deal with the pilot..

100% , that's every time, the pilots got in the cockpit and flew away..

We have a check and balance system and redundancy systems to keep most items from slipping through the cracks..

If you want to pay us pilot pay, we'll be glad to abide by a duty cycle. But we want a hotel with a view, per diem free internet, no more than 80 hours a month, and dry cleaning reimbursement..

 

[Bob Owens]

I'll call mach 85er out on refusing an airplane...

99.9% of AA's pilots don't have the cahoonas to refuse a legal airplane..

Over my 29 years in the airlines, I've laid it down with the pilots on the jetbridge that the aircraft is legal and the balls in their court..

I've called the chief pilot down a quite a few times here at DFW to deal with the pilot..

100% , that's every time, the pilots got in the cockpit and flew away..

We have a check and balance system and redundancy systems to keep most items from slipping through the cracks..

If you want to pay us pilot pay, we'll be glad to abide by a duty cycle. But we want a hotel with a view, per diem free internet, no more than 80 hours a month, and dry cleaning reimbursement..

??

Why would you call a Chief Pilot? It would never even cross my mind to do that. I've had pilots get in my face before and like you I would just say "Hey from where I'm sitting it's legal, I've done all I'm gonna do, whether you take it or not its your call" (technically its all we can do without getting a personal delay) but I would never call the Chief Pilot, he's management.

Duty times are what helped get pilots the things you are talking about. Anything that limits the supply of our labor helps drive up the price. Scarcity + demand = Higher prices You want to do 80 hour FTs at 1.5x pay for 72 hrs fine but on that 7th day you are off. Not too restrictive but its a start. He doesn't determine what we get paid so don't blame him, blame yourself for being willing to work 80 hours for what you should get for 40.

 

[Jager]

???

Bob, The reason we call the chief pilot down is to put these computer programming "pilots" in their place.. When we're done explaining the situation 5 times over, you can't fix ignorance.. Most of the pilots are cool and possess a relatively abundant amount of common sense.. Multiply JFK by 2000% and that's what we deal with here... We get every kind..

I had a pilot threatening to refuse a 73 because the log book was signed off by a repair station in SNA for an ECO.. (seat pitch). Totally legal paperwork.. Book was released. It also flew 5 days after the ECO... He wanted it in the book explaining exactly what the ECO was before he'd take the airplane. I told him it's really none of his business as long as it's signed off and released . I said, I guess you also want every item accomplished on a O/N Bck in the book instead of a Airworthiness Release for a B12 ck in the book..

Really??

I called the Chief Pilot down to explain it to this idiot and left the jet bridge.. That pilot was in the cockpit and pushing back 10 minutes after I left with a 45 minute delay for the people on board..

BTW.. I'm not a Union Supporter.. I pay my dues under duress for this clown operation.. I own a business and pay top dollar for top talent.. Unions protect the underachievers, not award top compensation for the hitters.. I'd pay $55 and hour to the line maintenance techs but I'd also cut the crew count by 30%.. You will work a solid for 6-7 hours a day but you'll be well compensated.. You've been around.. You know why we're underpaid..

 

[Mach85ER]

A tired AMT is a concern, but overtime is the only way the AMT's today can make a living with all the concessions that have been forced upon the industries carriers that have had to endure the airline bankrupcy trend.

I understand that we have both taken concessions. I also understand your pay sucks compared to others doing the same job and there is 2 reasons for that;
1- the weighted value of the TUL vote that cuts your ##ts off because of what they are willing to accept due to a low standard of OK living. My bet is a TUL mechanic at top scale and playing any overtime has a greater standard of living than a 777 Captain living locally in LAX or NY.
2. That dead weight of every other non-certificated member in your same union that doesn't understand your training and skill, nor a substantial pay raise to justify it. I can more understand the pilots being in the same union as the FA's than what you guys do.

Given the above, if your trying to justify making deadly omissions and mistakes that a pilot or FA may have to deal with inflight because you're fatigued and you need some cash, cry me a river. I've lost plenty of cash because I've gone fatigued and lost pay as a result. There are tough choices to make. Get another career and screw up the work on some housewives BMW while working a double+ shift. Big deal, her car will rattle. it's a little different with a HP duct coming loose and blowing hot air on a fuel line over the Amazon after forgetting a clamp due to fatigue.

Don't shoot the messenger. The company and guys pulling long shifts will get duty time rigs someday. I just don't want to be the guy along with his passengers as the dead poster children for the FAA tombstone agency to finally act.

I'll call mach 85er out on refusing an airplane...

99.9% of AA's pilots don't have the cahoonas to refuse a legal airplane..

I understand, that may be your experience. Not in my case. Never heard a word otherwise from company. Good for them.

 

[Mach85ER]

???

Bob, The reason we call the chief pilot down is to put these computer programming "pilots" in their place..

Try not to be an idiot.

 

[AA-MRO.COM]

Many in Tulsa are now losing their second jobs since the company has decided to treat us all like we are in prison. Absolutely no C/S allowed. Fixed start/stop times so those who either worked it out to start a little early or late to accomodate another job to try to make up loss of pay from AA are now going to be out of luck. Of course the TWU has been mum on all this. We will have to stick to a strict schedule and watch management come and go as they please. Traffic jams are now common occurance in the parking lot. It seems management in Tulsa is going out of their way to make us as miserable as they can, with the TWU's blessing it looks like. How would no C/S allowed go over at the line stations? Get ready. I am thinking if it is not allowed in Tulsa it won't be allowed elsewhere.

We voted yes now bend over and take it like a man
and remember "they can do that"

 

[CapRetro737]

Bob,
Our 3-13 in tulsa, will start on April 1(the start of our 3 month shift bids). Can the Company force
people to work this shift? Example. 3-13 afternoon, summer time, outside temps 110, open hanger 115.
Maybe a health problem for a senior mech( 60-67yrs old).?

 

[Bob Owens]

Don't shoot the messenger. The company and guys pulling long shifts will get duty time rigs someday. I just don't want to be the guy along with his passengers as the dead poster children for the FAA tombstone agency to finally act.

Well maybe you should encourage your union to take a position on this because as you said you don't want to be "the dead poster children".

Our class and craft is determined by the NMB and they have determined that A&P mechanics are not a class and craft unto themselves and in part because of that we are in a Union that lobbies alongside the Airlines lobbyists against more stringent duty times.

As a side note, two years ago the same union decided that since the company was having trouble filling spots on the line that no experience was required to work the line. Despite Eolson feelings to the contrary its a good thing that people who supervise mechanics must be mechanics. HR pushed eliminating the requirement and of course Gless and Videtich got it done but management at the local level got at least two years put back in place.

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob,
Our 3-13 in tulsa, will start on April 1(the start of our 3 month shift bids). Can the Company force
people to work this shift? Example. 3-13 afternoon, summer time, outside temps 110, open hanger 115.
Maybe a health problem for a senior mech( 60-67yrs old).?

The contract says up to 12, nowhere does it say 13. File a grievance, also maybe see a lawyer and claim the Local and the company are trying to force older workers in Tulsa out by making them work extended hours. I know that during negotiations the Title I rep for Tulsa was hot on this, but was this ever brought before the members?

The Line was never even offered such an option, maybe we will file a DFR. If Tulsa is paid 40 for 39 hours then they are getting a pay raise that was not offered to the line. We could also claim that they are getting this raise in return for voting YES.

If they are only getting 39 hours then are they still considered "Full Time"?

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob, do you want an electronic copy of the current US/IAM CBA?

Sure, have a hard copy but soft is easier. Thanks.

[email protected]

You can get ours from the TWUBKfacts.org website. The only problem is they keep changing it without bothering to notify anyone about the changes, the only way to know would be to have the two side by side and find the changes. Even then unless you noted which was the most recent there would be no way to tell.

Sadly ours reads more like a company policy book than a labor contract. Even on this issue, whether we work 8, 10 or 12 hour shifts is at the sole discretion of the company, now Tulsa is reportedly agreeing to 13 hours as well.

Unions fought for the weekend-the TWU fights against a one day off in seven rule, the Unions fought for the 8 hour day, the TWU agrees to let the company dictate 12 hour days at straight time, and is now possibly 13 hour days, years ago if we worked a 13 hour shift we would be paid an extra 8 hours. (4 @ 1.5x and 1 @ 2x). Sad.

 

[700UW]

Sent

 

[CapRetro737]

Prelimary only; 3-13 shift times, Starts Friday afternoon 6:00pm to 7:30am, Fri-Sunday. Day's,
Sat-Mon 6:00am-7:30pm, Totaling 39 hours, Area's, Overhaul hanger lines.

 

[Bob Owens]

Sent

Thanks

 

[700UW]

Yw