This Is How We Roll.......

[Light Years]

There's just not a single good argument for GIVING some people seniority and taking away anothers. Please explain how that's fair? It just doesn't make sense. You have to earn things in life.

I'm furloughed from Airways with half a decade of service. Am I crying about it and trying to get my union to furlough people with twenty years seniority instead? No, they earned thier right to be there, and my time is not enough. That's how it works, and always has. That's what we knew when we got involved and got that little mustard colored AFA Bylaws book. It's always been seniority, it's all you have in this industry, more now than ever. Like I said, fight if someone's trying to take it away, but don't embarrass yourself by fighting for it if you didn't earn it.

 

[goodgirl37]

Well, well......It is utterly impossible to have an intelligent discussion on this forum. No matter what anyone posts, the replys from US folks are derogatory, rude and downright disrespectful. What you have given up, what you have sacrificed...yada yada yada. With that being said, how about trying to stick to the issue: DOH /Seniority Integration. All seniority levels should be protected.

p.s. No, I am not junior, which is totally irrelevant to the DOH issue being discussed.

[post="297145"][/post]​

All due respect HAG, we are the ones that are giving you the info. to have an intelligent conversation, you don't know much our airline if you are going to sit here and make false statements regarding all aspects including seniority integration. DOH is what you want to talk about then lets chat. I just have one thing to ask though, what makes you such aterrific flight attendant that you should gain years of seniority and I should lose seniority? A truthful answer is appreciated - just wondering what makes you such an important factor over me and why you should be rewarded with years of seniority tacked on... Hopefully you can shed some light on your way of thinking for me... because so far most people aren't in line with you even at HP... you want slotting no need for fences - be careful what you wish for...

 

[etops1]

Well, well......It is utterly impossible to have an intelligent discussion on this forum. No matter what anyone posts, the replys from US folks are derogatory, rude and downright disrespectful. What you have given up, what you have sacrificed...yada yada yada. With that being said, how about trying to stick to the issue: DOH /Seniority Integration. All seniority levels should be protected.

p.s. No, I am not junior, which is totally irrelevant to the DOH issue being discussed.

[post="297145"][/post]​

you have issues. it's ok ,we love you anyway over here at u.

 

[PITbull]

AFA's Constitution and By-Laws are NOT outdated. We at AWA must adhere to date-of-hire with regard to seniority. It is FAIR. PERIOD. Many flight attendants at AWA fear being bumped out of PHX. There is NOTHING TO FEAR with date-of-hire. Like I said before, on this forum and my own AFA forum, date of hire is the only way to integrate seniority. We at AWA must deal with it, stop fearing it, and do what is right. ALL of us must stop this fighting, finger pointing, and get over it. Most importantly, GET ON WITH IT!  B)

[post="295503"][/post]​

Not to butt into your boards...but US Airways employees can NOT bump folks out of PHX. The only time there is transfers to or from is when there is an opening in a base or bases. Period.

If there are NO openings in PHX for years and there is no need to bring in f/as in that base, THERE WILL BE NO TRANSFERRING IN, and you can't bump folks out.

This is for any base.

 

[desertgal]

Questions for GalleyHag:
More than likely, the attempt to change the C&Bs to something favoring HP FAs will not go thru.
How will you feel about your job if the merger goes ahead with DOH?
Will you be gracious or bitter?
Will you snub original US FAs? Will you stir trouble on the aircraft, or will you make friends with your new co-workers?
Will you quit?

I have 17 HP years.
I have absolutely no problem going with DOH.
I am not afraid.
I know this merger was as neccessary for HP as it 'appears' to be for US.
If for some reason the BOD allows relative integration, the majority of our FA group will be understandably pizzed off, and I would hate for them to treat me shabbily because I was bumped ahead of them with a gift of seniority I did not actually accrue. Nor do I want to work w/a former HP FA who is bitter like you.
DOH is fair for everyone, its what we agreed to.
I'm hoping for 30 more years on the job. I want to enjoy it.

 

[EricLv2Fish]

you have issues. it's ok ,we love you anyway over here at u.

[post="297235"][/post]​

Nice post etops1. Galleyhag please do not disrespect our US brothers and sisters in the manner you have displayed :down: . May I suggest if you are emotional about this issue to walk away until you can think objectively so you post your opinions WITHOUT including disrespectful remarks. We have an opportunity to build something very special here and we need everyone "on board". Do you want to find yourself with just a life preserver around you neck with the boat leaving you behind? :unsure: If not, then get on board, be a productive member, and act like a professional please!

 

[diogenes]

Well I for one, fail to see or comprehend how DOH is the best for both airlines. DOH is only good for US not for HP. DOH will create the biggest animosity between fa work groups. There will not be but a handfull of AWA fa's who could stomach working with a US fa if DOH goes through. Such a shame because this merger could of been handled differently. DP is a great CEO, but unfortunately he left the pilots and the fa's hung out to dry at AWA.

[post="297025"][/post]​

Just curious. HP and US are AFA, yes?


What were AFA by-laws five years ago regarding merging two AFA carriers?

Two years ago?

Today?

I'm guessing they're the same - DOH. Now that may or may not be fair, but that is the language, and nobody can claim they didn't know what they were getting into.

I've read the argument U is a dying carrier; this is a new era, etc.

Interesting, but irrelevant.

What do your by-laws say?

Did you think they were unfair 5 years ago, and did you try to change them then?

Or not until the U deal broke?

 

[Travelpro72]

I just don't understand how people want the language changed NOW. As stated above, it was written when you agreed to your contract. ALL AFA carriers are in agreement with the written laws. Now that HP and US are merging it's not ok? Someone had mentioned before that if the merger were to be with AirTran would this fuss be made today? Highly unlikely. Whether anyone feels DOH is fair doesn't matter. All members of AFA agreed to their contract and it is what it is. CLEARLY WRITTEN ! ! ! !

 

[ItsNotThatSerious]

Well, well......It is utterly impossible to have an intelligent discussion on this forum. No matter what anyone posts, the replys from US folks are derogatory, rude and downright disrespectful. What you have given up, what you have sacrificed...yada yada yada. With that being said, how about trying to stick to the issue: DOH /Seniority Integration. All seniority levels should be protected.

p.s. No, I am not junior, which is totally irrelevant to the DOH issue being discussed.

[post="297145"][/post]​

[/quote
Gallyslag,
You have no idea how much we have been through. If your not junior then u really have nothing to worry about

 

[diogenes]

Interestingly, when the US/UA merger was being talked up (both FA groups were AFA) and considering UA was older and larger than US, the UA f/a's started screaming for by-law changes or decertifying AFA.

Apparently AFA by laws are good when you get a benefit, and the same by-laws are bad when you don't.

Does anyone besides me see a connection between that dynamic and management running over labor at will?

 

[SKY HIGH]

All most folks want at HP is a fair seniority integration. DOH is not and will not ever be fair in the eyes of HP fa's.

[post="297096"][/post]​

sky high states: You're most senior HP F/A has 23 years?...right?.....U's most senior F/A has over 40 YEARS. TELL ME HOW INTEGRATING A F/A with 23 years NEXT TO SOMEONE WITH 40 YEARS....................is FAIR?

TWIST THAT LOGIC!

 

[PITbull]

SKY,

Very easy...one f/a has 23 years of service and the other has 40 years of service.

The 40 year f/a should not have to regress 10 years or 15 years to give you added years that you haven't earned.

Does that make sense? If it doesn't, than you will be stressed out.

 

[EricLv2Fish]

SKY,

Very easy...one f/a has 23 years of service and the other has 40 years of service.

The 40 year f/a should not have to regress 10 years or 15 years to give you added years that you haven't earned.

Does that make sense? If it doesn't, than you will be stressed out.

[post="297673"][/post]​

As an outsider (non-union) with a semi-objective opinion I think AWA is not communicating their point very well. It's not that I agree or disagree, but I think the point AWA is trying to make is not so much about SENIORITY as it is about STATUS/CLASS. A 23 year FA at AWA is "on top", "king/queen of the hill" so to speak of the FA mountain, but a striaght up integration will place this king or queen in with the bishops or rooks...or worse...pawns. It can feel like a demotion being placed down in status/class. FAs in both companies have worked hard to acheive their status. Straight up seniority integration is one-sided (I think) in stepping down AWA FA's status/class. So in that light maybe their argument carries more weight, or at the very least provide some additional understanding? :unsure: <<<<duckin for cover>>>>>

 

[Travelpro72]

I'll tell you what is fair about DOH.... It has been in place and was in place before the merger. It is no surprise to anyone. Again, would this be an issue if HP were merging with a more junior group of AFA represented flight attendants? We on both sides have worked hard and earned the time we have but that being said why should I of 8 years drop down in seniority so someone with less time gets more. How does that possibly sound fair either?

 

[EricLv2Fish]

I'll tell you what is fair about DOH.... It has been in place and was in place before the merger. It is no surprise to anyone. Again, would this be an issue if HP were merging with a more junior group of AFA represented flight attendants? We on both sides have worked hard and earned the time we have but that being said why should I of 8 years drop down in seniority so someone with less time gets more. How does that possibly sound fair either?

[post="297708"][/post]​

Travelpro72, I'm not advocating any particular type of integration. Senority is a relative position/status within your company correct? After the merger, if you were to maintain the same relative position/status in the new company would that be fair? Keep in mind everyone would maintain their relative position/status. If you increased your relative position/status because of the merger would you consider that fair? Keep in mind, for you to increase your relative position/status within the company someone has to lose relative position/status. If you answered yes to the first question and no to the second question than DOH would not yield a fair result. If you answered no to the first question and yes to the second question than DOH will yeild a fair result. Guess it's all a matter of perspective. :blink: