the IAM is mad at the back door deals at AA!

[WNMECH]

No wonder why you have that attitude, AMFA has always been an elitist organization.

Maybe you should educate yourself on how labor unions started and what their purpose is, and read about how people died in order to join unions.

Every union at SWA fought for their members seniority.
Every one except the IAM.
Get off your high horse and educate yourself.

 

[700UW]

I am highly educated on union matters, a union doesnt treat new members or merged members as second class citizens, that is not what the labor movement was founded on.

Thats what the TWU did to TWA, Reno and AirCal, and AMFA did it to to FL employees as well as the TWU.

Did ALPA, AFA, and the IAM do that to HP employees, PI employees?

 

[WNMECH]

I am highly educated on union matters

Not on union matters at SWA.
And that is what I was referring to.

 

[swamt]

You forgot that our CSAs were forced by the IAM to get DOH.
The Airtran ramp/CSA group voted in the IAM before the Airtran acquisition was finalized.
Then the SWA CSAs that had been paying the IAM dues for like 20 years or so, and the new Airtran CSAs who had never paid a dime in dues to the IAM, were given straight DOH by the IAM after every other SWA union workgroup had proven that that would cause a windfall in pay and benefits to the Airtran side.
While I am sure KEV, 700uw and others believe this to be fair, I believed it was a straght up betrayal to the long time dues paying members of the SWA CSAs.

Yes I did forget. Thx for the correction.

 

[WNMECH]

Yes I did forget. Thx for the correction.

No problem.
But I knew mentioning it would get 700uw all fired up.

 

[Kev3188]

You forgot that our CSAs were forced by the IAM to get DOH.
The Airtran ramp/CSA group voted in the IAM before the Airtran acquisition was finalized.
Then the SWA CSAs that had been paying the IAM dues for like 20 years or so, and the new Airtran CSAs who had never paid a dime in dues to the IAM, were given straight DOH by the IAM after every other SWA union workgroup had proven that that would cause a windfall in pay and benefits to the Airtran side.
While I am sure KEV, 700uw and others believe this to be fair, I believed it was a straght up betrayal to the long time dues paying members of the SWA CSAs.

The IAM has a pretty clear (and long standing) policy on integration when both sides are already IAM members. This should NOT have been news to any CSA at WN.

Is it fair? I happen to be a fan of the working class helping each other to raise everyone's standard of living. Depends on your perspective, I guess.

Is it a betrayal? NFW.

 

[WNMECH]

Is it a betrayal? NFW.

The betrayal came from organizing a group in the midst of a merger to negotiate directly against your own long standing dues paying members.
The Airtran CSAs would become IAM after the merger regardless but the IAM had a duty to represent the best intrests of the members that had been paying them for decades before a non organized group with no relationship to the IAM.

The CSAs I have heard from call it straight up betrayal.

In the IAMs defense, the timing of the vote forced the IAMs hand and they had to represent to AT ramp/CSAs.
Also the ramp and CSAs were one group at Airtran and it was the ramp that forced and won the election.
But all other unions here agreed that the fair and equitable SLI solution was NOT DOH.

So I guess all unions here are wrong and only the IAM was right huh.

 

[737823]

1.1AA said they did.

2. It's not fair for the employees who are being merged into another company to suffer at the hands of bad management decisions. And its totally wrong for labor to attack its own.

AMFA strike at NWA in 2005 anyone?

"IAM members will not be duped into standing with AMFA" IAM Vice President Robert Roach Jr.

And save the bandwith to explain that PFAA didn't observe the strike and how the IAM had ancillary duties at many stations covering the AMFA duties and how NWA imposed a new CBA and IAM members not performing the work would be insubordination. Performing struck work is scab activity.

Josh

 

[Kev3188]

The betrayal came from organizing a group in the midst of a merger to negotiate directly against your own long standing dues paying members.
The Airtran CSAs would become IAM after the merger regardless but the IAM had a duty to represent the best intrests of the members that had been paying them for decades before a non organized group with no relationship to the IAM.

The CSAs I have heard from call it straight up betrayal.

In the IAMs defense, the timing of the vote forced the IAMs hand and they had to represent to AT ramp/CSAs.
Also the ramp and CSAs were one group at Airtran and it was the ramp that forced and won the election.
But all other unions here agreed that the fair and equitable SLI solution was NOT DOH.

So I guess all unions here are wrong and only the IAM was right huh.

Wrong.

Please do not put words in my mouth. I am for the union that allows/encourages/fosters the most engagement amongst their membership, and the one that advocates for direct action, which ever one that might ultimately be. IMO, most all of 'em have a long way to go towards breaking out of the sclerotic structures they have in place. That is one thing I've repeatedly said AMFA does quite well. I just happen to disagree with the idea of promoting 1 class at the expense of all others. Promoting your best interest is fundamental; doing it at the expense of others, not so much... It's not unlike a bargaining unit at a hospital promoting nurses at the expense of rad techs, surgical assistants, and others.

Back to WN:

Those you spoke to can call it a betrayal, but the fact is that the IAM's policy on integration isn't anything new. If they felt is was so wrong, why not ever work to change it? FWIW, the AFA's policy is similar, as is ALPA's, IIRC... I get that the elections at FL were decided close to the merger close, but it wasn't exactly a secret that it was in the works, nor were the campaigns happening over there.

That said, using my (admittedly coarse) analogy above, this would be like nurses from a hospital across town now being under the same CBA. You are endorsing the idea that the first group should be pissed the new nurses received raises, and other benefits. I'm of the mind that they should be happy that a good number of people have now been helped up the ladder to their same level.

I get that my vision for what middle class America should look like is quite different from yours. I really do. But unless we all truly come together and mobilize, we're going to be stuck in the same flat spin we've been in for the last 30 yrs. When you pit one group against another, the only winners are the bosses. We they work against us, it's bad enough. When we do it to ourselves, it's unconscionable.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

What I don't get is why the IAM should be mad, we the mechanics of AA represented by the TWU gave up our "me too clause" and the profit sharing as well for a lousy 4.3% raise. (just a rumor but we will see) when made official....

I hope that they will join us when we do merge to rid the airlines of both the IAM and the TWU.

 

[700UW]

You dont get it?

The IAM has been in negotiations for almost two years for all three groups, and US hasnt agreed to a new CBA, nor has it made itself available for necessary session to reach a deal.

They can make deals with unions that arent even on US property, but cant negotiate with their own unions in a timely manner to complete new CBAs.

 

[WNMECH]

Wrong.

Please do not put words in my mouth. I am for the union that allows/encourages/fosters the most engagement amongst their membership, and the one that advocates for direct action, which ever one that might ultimately be. IMO, most all of 'em have a long way to go towards breaking out of the sclerotic structures they have in place. That is one thing I've repeatedly said AMFA does quite well. I just happen to disagree with the idea of promoting 1 class at the expense of all others. Promoting your best interest is fundamental; doing it at the expense of others, not so much... It's not unlike a bargaining unit at a hospital promoting nurses at the expense of rad techs, surgical assistants, and others.

Back to WN:

Those you spoke to can call it a betrayal, but the fact is that the IAM's policy on integration isn't anything new. If they felt is was so wrong, why not ever work to change it? FWIW, the AFA's policy is similar, as is ALPA's, IIRC... I get that the elections at FL were decided close to the merger close, but it wasn't exactly a secret that it was in the works, nor were the campaigns happening over there.

That said, using my (admittedly coarse) analogy above, this would be like nurses from a hospital across town now being under the same CBA. You are endorsing the idea that the first group should be pissed the new nurses received raises, and other benefits. I'm of the mind that they should be happy that a good number of people have now been helped up the ladder to their same level.

I get that my vision for what middle class America should look like is quite different from yours. I really do. But unless we all truly come together and mobilize, we're going to be stuck in the same flat spin we've been in for the last 30 yrs. When you pit one group against another, the only winners are the bosses. We they work against us, it's bad enough. When we do it to ourselves, it's unconscionable.

Sorry about that, the last line was not meant to be directed at you, it was to 700uw. It basically what he was saying but not saying.

The whole point is that SLI agreements under MB are not a simple DOH decision anymore in all cases.

The threshold for agreements is that they be "fair and equitable" to BOTH SIDES.

And IMHO that agreement where 1 group lost seniority and the other got a windfall in rasies, benefits and job security, it fell way short of that threshold.

I begrudge no ex-Airtran employee, and am very happy to welcome them all aboard.

 

[Vortilon]

What I don't get is why the IAM should be mad, we the mechanics of AA represented by the TWU gave up our "me too clause" and the profit sharing as well for a lousy 4.3% raise. (just a rumor but we will see) when made official....

I hope that they will join us when we do merge to rid the airlines of both the IAM and the TWU.

Yeah, the way I see it, most of US Airs 3500 or so AMTs are line mechanics. Shouldn't be too hard to get them on board the AMFA train to rid ourselves of the TWU, IAM, and any other communist collective type organization (IBT). The days of have the TWU lemmings in Tulsa dictating line AMTs pay and benefits are gonna finally come to an end.

 

[700UW]

Been tried before and failed, the IBT is raiding US now.

 

[1AA]

Been tried before and failed, the IBT is raiding US now.

Us at AA as well because of the possible merger. Any where AMFA is a threat the IBT jumps in to cause interference and drive interest away. That is all they can do.