the IAM is mad at the back door deals at AA!

[700UW]

TWA did not file chapter 7, they would have ceased all operations, they filed chapter 11 and AA acquired them.

TWA, the nation's longest existing commercial air carrier, filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection in Wilmington, Del., Wednesday, shortly after its board of directors approved a $500 million acquisition of the troubled airline by AMR Corp., parent company of American Airlines.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/818514/TWA-files-bankruptcy-OKs-bid.html?pg=all

 

[Bob Owens]

TWA did not file chapter 7, they would have ceased all operations, they filed chapter 11 and AA acquired them.



http://www.deseretne...bid.html?pg=all

Who said they did?

You never answered my question, do you think it would be fair for the TWA guys, who got big raises, to come in and displace EAL guys who fought Lorenzo and had to restart at AA?

Who controls meregers? Unions or corporations? Do you really want to give corporations more power? Do you want to enable corporations to use the possibility of a merger as a means to leverage concessions?

You know I'm right, thats why you are dodging the question.

 

[700UW]

1.1AA said they did.

2. It's not fair for the employees who are being merged into another company to suffer at the hands of bad management decisions. And its totally wrong for labor to attack its own.

3. But I guess you are use to it since AA and it's union's have always screwed its new employees from merging companies, AirCal, Reno and TWA.

4. Every merger I have been involved with, no employees have been disadvantaged in regards to seniority.

 

[swamt]

Look at all the AA guys that are quitting AA to go to WN.

You bring up a good point, WN outsources a lot but has never laid off anyone. In the past AA was the leader in outsourcing when it came to the majors, the rationale for AA's heavy outsourcing was memorialized in the contract by CR Smith, who explained that by outsourcing it allowed AA to have a more stable workforce with fewer layoffs. It took 9-11 and BK for AA's peers to gain the flexibility that AA always enjoyed, now we have people like Don videtith, Bobby Gless et al saying that our scope is better than others, when its simply not true. Its not better if it costs us having to agree to the worst terms in the industry, so bad that guys with decades of service are walking into work and quitting. Its like saying that being poor makes you secure because you have nothing to lose.

Correct Bob. I wanted to get to even more points but my post was long winded as it was. We are getting anywhere from 10 year to 28 year mechs from AA. Some of these guys were NOT going to be layed off, matter fact the 28 year AA veteran wasn't even getting moved out of his DFW spot, but saw the writing on the wall and desided to start all over at SWA. Most of them say they made the move for the job security. Most people assume that people make their moves mostly for money. Not true at all. When I came to SWA I told 4 other airlines no in waiting for Southwest to make the call. And yes I took a rather large paycut to come to SWA as all the AA'ers are doing as well. 700 can say all he wants about us farming out. SWA has NEVER had a lay-off or rifs, and they have NEVER launched paycuts or bennie cuts. As far as I am concerned SWA can do whatever they want to as long as they follow the CBA. Just keep sending me my paycheck...

 

[700UW]

You havent had layoffs of rifs because WN has offered buyouts and early outs.

 

[IORFA]

What a novel idea. I wish I worked for a world class organization like that. Congratulations! Maybe we can poach an executive or 2 to come over to the dark side on Amon Carter to share their experiences and try to change this place.

 

[IORFA]

You havent had layoffs of rifs because WN has offered buyouts and early outs.

You say that as if it is bad. What are you implying? No matter what you are implying, they haven't had any involuntary layoffs. Sounds fantastic to me. If they come up with a plan to pay people to leave, then good for them.

 

[swamt]

1.1AA said they did.

2. It's not fair for the employees who are being merged into another company to suffer at the hands of bad management decisions. And its totally wrong for labor to attack its own.

3. But I guess you are use to it since AA and it's union's have always screwed its new employees from merging companies, AirCal, Reno and TWA.

4. Every merger I have been involved with, no employees have been disadvantaged in regards to seniority.

I would also like to point out that you keep using the word merger. We did not merge with AirTran. SWA flat out purchased, bought out, aquired however you wish to put it. AirTran was not in BK, however they were in the beginning stages of losing money. The profits they were making were due to their baggage fees. If they did not have baggage fees AT would not have made profit in their final quarters of existance. If it wasn't for the purchase AT would be looking just like Frontier does now. Frontier pilots sure did screw up didn't they? And I also want you to remember this. With the integrations at SWA, EVERY single union group on property recieved boost in seniority, even groups that took it all the way to arbitrators (many groups went to arbitration, not just one group) independant arbitrators also ruled that a boost in seniority was fair due to the "windfall" the AirTran employees were recieving. Even upper management at SWA and AirTran thought it was fair. I believe our group was the highest boost recieved (tying only with dispatchers) and remember it was agreed upon by both sides with overwhelming greater than 85% of each membership. Don't blame AMFA for what took place during integration. Blame me (the membership) as they were the ones that directed AMFA what it would take to get integration done outside of an arbitrator. Stop blaming AMFA, they did their job which was what the membership wanted. Have you EVER heard of another union doing this? The AA mechanics could have it this way as well if they want it, just vote AMFA in and start controling your own union...

 

[swamt]

You havent had layoffs of rifs because WN has offered buyouts and early outs.

Really 700?? This is the only complaint?? Yea, SWA did do freedom 09. A whopping 20-30 mechs took it. The rest were behind the wall employees. The mechs that took it were going to retire within 2 years anyway. The co was not happy with the low turn out from mechanics last time, this is why they are considering doing another one this year. SWA can pay 2 new hires the same as one "soon to be retired" mechanic, and get more productivity out of them.
Your post sounds as if you think the buy-outs are negative or in lieu of lay-offs or rifs, they are far from that. It is just an offset to the cost of buying AirTran outright, building well over 250-300 mil in new buildings, not to mention the 1.4 bil that is steadily rising to over 2.0 bil for AT purchase, hundreds upon hundreds of millions for computer upgrades, trax going bust ect...
We are still hearing of a possible EO being offered some time this year. I would welcome it again. And in no way shape or form is it in lieu of lay-offs or rifs, C'mon man...

 

[WNMECH]

With the integrations at SWA, EVERY single union group on property recieved boost in seniority

You forgot that our CSAs were forced by the IAM to get DOH.
The Airtran ramp/CSA group voted in the IAM before the Airtran acquisition was finalized.
Then the SWA CSAs that had been paying the IAM dues for like 20 years or so, and the new Airtran CSAs who had never paid a dime in dues to the IAM, were given straight DOH by the IAM after every other SWA union workgroup had proven that that would cause a windfall in pay and benefits to the Airtran side.
While I am sure KEV, 700uw and others believe this to be fair, I believed it was a straght up betrayal to the long time dues paying members of the SWA CSAs.

 

[700UW]

You are not a unionist at all, a union is about coming together for fairness, not alienating one group over another.

Maybe you need an education about what the labor movement is all about.

 

[WNMECH]

You are not a unionist at all, a union is about coming together for fairness, not alienating one group over another.

Maybe you need an education about what the labor movement is all about.

blah blah blah.

You are right on que.

So every other union group at SWA aren't unionists either because they don't believe like you.

 

[700UW]

No wonder why you have that attitude, AMFA has always been an elitist organization.

Maybe you should educate yourself on how labor unions started and what their purpose is, and read about how people died in order to join unions.

 

[WNMECH]

So every other union group at SWA aren't unionists either because they don't believe like you.

 

[700UW]

The TWU has all ready shown that behavior at AA, multiple times.

I have a friend who is a FA at FL and she is ATL based international and WN is opening up ATL base and the former FL FAs arent allowed to bid ATL and will be displaced once the FAs are fully merged into WN, and doesnt know where she will end up.

How is that fair?