the IAM is mad at the back door deals at AA!

[swamt]

Been tried before and failed, the IBT is raiding US now.

Good, let'em raid US. It would be perfect to see AMFA embarrass the teamsters again in another integration. Matter fact I hope the teamsters win at US just so they can go head to head again. Hope they get Josh as their attorney. I think I would like to be an observer for this one. LOL Sign me up...

 

[Bob Owens]

I am highly educated on union matters, a union doesnt treat new members or merged members as second class citizens, that is not what the labor movement was founded on.

Thats what the TWU did to TWA, Reno and AirCal, and AMFA did it to to FL employees as well as the TWU.

Did ALPA, AFA, and the IAM do that to HP employees, PI employees?

So when Ex EAL/IAM workers went to USAIR what Seniority did they get?

Mergers are managements decisions, so you are saying that the workers should let management decide their fate?

 

[Bob Owens]

You havent had layoffs of rifs because WN has offered buyouts and early outs.

Buyouts, early outs, no rifs and an industry leading contract vs layoffs, concessions and bottom of the industry contracts.

What you are championing isnt fairness, its maximizing dues flow at the expense of workers living standards. Taking on more members than the business can consistantly employ simply for the sake of maximizing the dues flow. Ask any worker which agreement they would rather work under and I guarantee they wont say that they would rather be one of the many miserable than the proud few.

 

[swamt]

Us at AA as well because of the possible merger. Any where AMFA is a threat the IBT jumps in to cause interference and drive interest away. That is all they can do.

At least you have 3 airlines that are saying they are tired of their current union representation. AA wants to fire the TWU and US wants to fire the IAM and let's not forget another airline wants to fire the teamsters. These are all the same industrial unions. There is a reason all these airlines are trying to fire thrir current unions. That leaves one craft union for all to have represent them, AMFA. I predict AA will vote in AMFA, then after AA and US merge AMFA will end up prevailing and representing all the mechanics after merger, then, UAL will have another vote and bring back AMFA, now here's a long shot but after AMFA is representing the 3 biggies for awhile, Delta might have a change of mind and bring AMFA in over there. It sure would be nice to see this happen.

 

[Bob Owens]

1.1AA said they did.

2. It's not fair for the employees who are being merged into another company to suffer at the hands of bad management decisions. And its totally wrong for labor to attack its own.

3. But I guess you are use to it since AA and it's union's have always screwed its new employees from merging companies, AirCal, Reno and TWA.

4. Every merger I have been involved with, no employees have been disadvantaged in regards to seniority.

Actually Aircal got DOH because they were TWU, Reno was non Union and TWA was IAM.

You never answered how it would be fair to the EAL (IAM) guys -after 10 years at AA and perhaps 25 at EAL- to get bumped out of their jobs by a guy from TWA who was hired right out of school and had 11 years there.

 

[swamt]

Buyouts, early outs, no rifs and an industry leading contract vs layoffs, concessions and bottom of the industry contracts.

What you are championing isnt fairness, its maximizing dues flow at the expense of workers living standards. Taking on more members than the business can consistantly employ simply for the sake of maximizing the dues flow. Ask any worker which agreement they would rather work under and I guarantee they wont say that they would rather be one of the many miserable than the proud few.

I could only hope they will offer me an early out when my time is here. Yea, pay me to leave early, that would just be a terrible thing. I just don't know if I could live with myself...

 

[700UW]

Keyword, EX, they werent working for an airline, they were hired off the street, the Trump Shuttle guys got there EA seniority.

 

[TWskyliner]

Keyword, EX, they werent working for an airline, they were hired off the street, the Trump Shuttle guys got there EA seniority.

They can't seem to grasp that truth.

 

[unionguy1]

Keyword, EX, they werent working for an airline, they were hired off the street, the Trump Shuttle guys got there EA seniority.

If I'm reading this wrong then my apologies. I am ex-EAL.When Trump bought EAL's east coast shuttle from Lorenzo we were on strike.It became the Trump Shuttle. If Trump kept the EAL people during that time. The EAL personnel would have been with the New Eastern Airlines. Which means they would be SCABS. We were IAM at EAL. So the IAM accepted the EAL SCABS and gave those SCABS their EAL seniority. Thats just wrong. I hope that the US AIR union folks put those SCABS on extinction and treat them as the scum that they are.

Kind Regards,
Harvey West

 

[Kev3188]

If the people went along with the planes/other assets to Trump, wouldn't they have no longer been EAL employees? Maybe it's me who's reading this wrong???

Separately, IIRC, there was a protracted court case to decide these people's ultimate seniority.

 

[Bob Owens]

Keyword, EX, they werent working for an airline, they were hired off the street, the Trump Shuttle guys got there EA seniority.

So as a Union Man, what exactly are you saying?

What I'm getting is you are advocating that Airline workers roll over for corporate raiders until they sell off the carcass of what was once a good company with good jobs to some other carrier so you can move in with your seniority intact. But under no circumstances should you fight back with anything more than harsh words.

You dismiss and disrespect what the EAL workers did, I feel like they should be recognized for what they did the same way we look at people who take up arms for our country. I recognize that if more of us behaved like they did then we would still have pensions, benefits and wages like we had years ago thanks to the generations before us who fought for them.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

No wonder why you have that attitude, AMFA has always been an elitist organization.

Maybe you should educate yourself on how labor unions started and what their purpose is, and read about how people died in order to join unions.

TImes change 700UW. UNIONS like the TWU have not served their purpose for a long time. They exist only as a form of control and political manipulation.

I am not saying the idea of a UNION is bad but, they are very prone to corruption. You have to hit the reset button and clean out the garbage every once in a while. TWU is long overdue.

 

[700UW]

Actually they resigned from Eastern and went to work for Trump. Trump lost the shuttle to Citibank, US operated for Citibank then bought it, the IAM gave them the day they started at Trump, they sued US and the IAM and the jury gave them their EA time.

And the Shuttle was sold before the EA went on strike. Eastern went on strike on March 4, 1989, that would be five months after the shuttle was sold.

During Lorenzo's tenure, Eastern was crippled by severe labor unrest. Asked to accept deep cuts in pay and benefits, on March 4, 1989, Frank Lorenzo locked out Eastern's mechanics and ramp service employees, represented by the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers (IAM). Concerned that if Lorenzo was successful in breaking the IAM he would do the same to the pilots' and flight attendants' unions, the pilots represented by Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA) and flight attendants represented by the Transport Workers Union (TWU) called a sympathy strike. Those actions effectively shut down the airline's domestic operations. Non-contract employees, including airport gate and ticket counter agents and reservation sales agents, did not honor the strike. Due to the lockout and sympathy strike flights were canceled, resulting in the loss of millions of dollars in revenue.

Eastern Sells Shuttle To Trump For $365m

October 12, 1988|

Eastern Airlines has sold its profitable shuttle to real estate and casino magnate Donald Trump for $365 million.
Trump and Frank Lorenzo, the chairman of Eastern's parent, Texas Air, planned a news conference in New York today to announce the deal. News reports said the deal includes gates in New York, Washington and Boston - the three cities now served by the shuttle - and 17 Boeing 727s.
An Eastern spokeswoman, Karen Ceremsak, confirmed that the pilots and flight attendants unions were informed of the sale today, and she said efforts were being made to contact the Machinists union leadership. She declined to give details of the sale.

As the financial outlook for Eastern Air Lines became more pessimistic in the late 1980s, the carrier began to sell its routes and aircraft. It organized its profitable Northeastern air shuttle operation into a separate company headed by Bruce Nobles with the intent of selling it to raise cash. On October 5, 1988, amidst a prolonged threatened mechanics strike action, real estate mogul Donald Trump arranged to purchase the shuttle. In June, 1989 the deal was completed, financed through a $380 million loan from a syndicate of 22 banks. The new airline began service as Trump Shuttle on June 23. Its IATA designator code, TB

 

[unionguy1]

I stand corrected.Old Timers Disease setting in.

Kind Regards,
Harvey West

 

[OldGuy@AA]

So as a Union Man, what exactly are you saying?

What I'm getting is you are advocating that Airline workers roll over for corporate raiders until they sell off the carcass of what was once a good company with good jobs to some other carrier so you can move in with your seniority intact. But under no circumstances should you fight back with anything more than harsh words.

You dismiss and disrespect what the EAL workers did, I feel like they should be recognized for what they did the same way we look at people who take up arms for our country. I recognize that if more of us behaved like they did then we would still have pensions, benefits and wages like we had years ago thanks to the generations before us who fought for them.

Amen!