Teamsters filed at USAir for representation

[TRAVIS]

It is accurate, what is inaccurate about it?

Where did you get your Law Degree?

Since it is passed through legal before it is released to the members.

7oo am i missing something, O" That's right THE FAKE IBT FLYERS PUT OUT BY THE IAM!!!

http://www.teamster.org/sites/teamster.org/files/US_Air_Bogus_Flier_Flier.pdf

 

[737823]

How stupid are you?

You have been explained numerous times on what happened.

AA would not have bought TWA unless ALL the unions, not just the IAM waived their LPPs and TWA would gone out of business.

The APFA and had an agreement and then went back on it and stapled the flight attendants, the IAM spent over $4 Million fighting it even after they werent even IAM members anymore.

The TWU has language in their CBA that states "no TWU member will be adversely effected in seniority due to a merger", the ramp and mechanic and related when to arbitration, it is called the Kasher decision if you can actually read and comprehend what transpired.

The neutral arbitrator ruled that every former TWA employee in Fleet or M&R got full seniority at JFK, MCI and STL. At all other stations, they got full seniority for pay, vacation and retirement. For bidding purposes he ruled that everyone got a seniority date of 4/10/2001 plus 25% of their TWA time.

Can you finally comprehend that or are you going to keep posting misinformation and lies?

This is your spin of what happened. You have said before that what happened to the TW workers was wrong but you still defend the IAM. Just like you say whenever a discussion about AMFA and ancillary duties language at NWA, you agree it's wrong but defend the IAM to a T. Besides as Tim said the ad is misleading or even outright false because of McCaskill-Bond amendment.

So funny that the IAM rehashes this in their campaign material. It it was such a setback for the union, probably best to leave it untouched.

http://afaonevoice.org/images/McCaskill%20Amendment%20explanation%20FINAL%20for%20WEB.pdf

Josh

 

[CactUSmx]

Vote Teamsters!!! Change is always good.

 

[Rusty]

You write like such a little kid. Not just your grammatical immaturity, but the remedial conclusions you create. Southwest was never a real player in the seat revenue miles game until 1990, and even then it was a minor player considering all the other airlines that were available at that time. By 1995 revenue miles had more than doubled and 5 years later in 2000 it nearly doubled again creating the formidable low cost airline we know today. Southwest has been a strong and consistent revenue generator since then. You received a very good raise and contract in 2001 because the market was right (before 9/11) and you had a very resourceful TEAMSTER negotiating team.

I know why you "fired" them. Simple good old fashioned greed. Take a stand for $100 grand. amfa promised to get you above $40 an hour at all costs and you took it.


for Southwest amfa supporters, apparently it is?????

Have a great day, and remember to thank your local IBT representative for getting you where you are now.

Actually, what Swamt said is true and not only did SW get the huge raise from the NWA AMFA guys so did we at AA. Our negotiators came back saying they were shocked at what the company said they were going to give us which was way more than they were going to ask for.

 

[1AA]

Actually, what Swamt said is true and not only did SW get the huge raise from the NWA AMFA guys so did we at AA. Our negotiators came back saying they were shocked at what the company said they were going to give us which was way more than they were going to ask for.

That is correct. I remember it like it was yesterday. the company countered with a higher base pay proposal. Why? To keep AMFA off the property.

 

[Anomaly]

Actually, what Swamt said is true and not only did SW get the huge raise from the NWA AMFA guys so did we at AA. Our negotiators came back saying they were shocked at what the company said they were going to give us which was way more than they were going to ask for.

But did you keep it? At UA, we had to give it all back. amfa at NWA gained us nothing. The other airlines watched and learned as NWA management worked amfa over the coals.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

But did you keep it? At UA, we had to give it all back. amfa at NWA gained us nothing. The other airlines watched and learned as NWA management worked amfa over the coals.

We at UA lost it in bankruptcy, and contrary to your previous ridiculous assertions, UA Mechanic losses occurred before AMFA went on strike at NWA, and before NWA filed for Chap 11.

AMFA in their first CBA at NWA raised the bar for mechanics in the entire industry.

 

[swamt]

Now that you 2 have stated the same as I, Anomaly admits that they too had benefited from AMFA's industry leading contract at NWA. Then he says they had to give it all back, therefore they gained nothing from AMFA at NWA. He better be glad he was at the rate of pay when they did give it all back, otherwise they would be paid a lot less than they are now as UAL still would have gone BK and still demanded the same percentile in wages as they did. It would be too much for his ego to admit that AMFA was the true reason the bar was raised for mechanic pay in the airline industry.

 

[Bob Owens]

Ask the TWA workers how the IAM worked out for them!

Josh

You have him there. The IAM signed a blank check as far as their TWA members because AA had threatened to screw the IAM out of monies owed to the pension and lease payments that TWA owed the IAM on engines the IAM owned. The IAM could have fought for a better deal but they only complained after the fact. In all fairness though the IAM ground workers probably fared better as far as Seniority than the Pilots or Flight Attendants who ended up with even less.

 

[Bob Owens]

But did you keep it?

I too would like to see the numbers that put you at "just a pinch" over $40. At AA we too have some mechanics that make over $40/hr, actually around $42.50, but they are "Special". You see when Don Videtich sat down with the company and put in language to remove Company Paid Union Business from the elected Presidents, which they used as a pretext to justify liquidating the line maintenance locals, and instead have a new thing called UBI, "Union Business International" where he, who was appointed, could in turn appoint four people and put them on special committees or positions of his choosing where in addition to getting their regular 40 hours of pay a week they also get an additional 10 hours pay per week bringing them up to an adjusted rate of around $42.50 an hour (funny how in BK the company had to have this concession from the mechanics but nobody else, and when you do the math they agreed to pay the International appointees as much as they were saving by not paying the five elected Presidents yet still credited the concession to the mechanics deal, hmm). At the moment I hear these guys are running around the system, supposedly on an anti-IBT campaign, (being paid by the company?) even though the card drive has stopped and there has not even been a decision made as to whether or not there will even be a vote at AA,(its been reported that the TWU is claiming at least 1500 cards were fraudulent, if true there will be no vote so why the campaign?) but from what we hear they are running around bad mouthing the people the mechanics elected to the new local they forced the mechanics into when they dissolved the five line locals (you see the mechanics elected people the International didn't like, but the International forced bylaws on the mechanics in the new Local where if the people they elected are removed for any reason the International can get the people in that the members didn't elect, the ones where the International sent flyers promoting their guys to everyone's homes, without an election). You wont find that explicitly written in the contract either, but, is that how you get to "just a pinch over $40"?

 

[psa8979]

Bob as a AMR Group M/C ? if you had a choice would you rather pay dues to the IBT,AMFA,TWU, or IAM ?

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob as a AMR Group M/C ? if you had a choice would you rather pay dues to the IBT,AMFA,TWU, or IAM ?

Why do you ask? I will say that if I were at USAIR I would be asking myself "Has the IAM brought me to were I want to be?", and if not then what makes me think they will do any better going forward? You have options, now its your time to choose. Stay with the Union that brought you to the bottom of the industry ten years ago or try something else. I think elections are good things and everyone should be held accountable. Would I believe all the promises that the IBT or anyone else is out there giving away? No, but if the IAM stays then not only will the IAM see that as proof that you are OK with being treated by management the way you have been for the last ten years, but so will management. Enjoy being at the bottom because that is where you will remain for the rest of your career. Believe me, management is very interested in your election, for them its a bellwether and it will tell them whether they can keep screwing you over or maybe they need to give something back for a change. An IAM victory sends the message that you are afraid to take a stand, and the next ten will be just like the last ten years, only worse as they continue to push the boundaries to test and see how far they can go before you are ready to act. At this point if they see the same people across the table that they have seen over the last ten years, they have no reason to change the way they are treating you. However if you fire those that have destroyed your careers and management sees all new faces, faces who know they have just one year to prove themselves or face the same fate as their predecessors they may think twice before taking you for granted and be a little more flexible. Me, I've made a commitment to try and change things from within our Union, my peers have chosen me to do this and continue to do so until either there is change from within or they have the opportunity to choose to go somewhere else for representation, either way that means firing those who have destroyed our careers, the opportunity for internal change may come in September at our Convention. The man leading the charge against those who have destroyed our Careers in the TWU is the same guy who I had requested several years ago to be put in charge of our negotiations at AA, Harry Lombardo. Lombardo has a good track record, having lead a strike against the City of Philadelphia. He is not afraid to pull the trigger. Back in 2009 or 2010 I was very unhappy with the way Videtich, Jim Littles appointed Chairman of the Maintenance Negotiating Committee, was advocating for another concessionary deal and simply kicking the can down the road as he collected his six figure salary courtesy of our dues and A-5 passes courtesy of American Airlines, not putting any pressure on the company whatsoever to move off a postion that they had not moved from in two fruitless years of prior NO-gotiations (like the IAM has been doing at US for the last few years) and requested that Jim Little fire Videtich and put Harry Lombardo in charge of our negotiations. I felt the company would see the move as "we are no longer here to get jerked off" and we had a guy in charge who would shut them down if needed. Of course my request was ignored by the management friendly Jim Little. Videtich remains in his appointed position in charge of destroying our careers to this day, in fact he has been promoted for getting the worst contract ever put in place. In September the elected representatives in the TWU will have an opportunity for change. Will we? I hope so, if not, then maybe mechanics will need to explore other options, but one thing is most certainly true, both of us need change. In September I will vote for change, your opportunity is now. How will you vote?

 

[Anomaly]

We at UA lost it in bankruptcy, and contrary to your previous ridiculous assertions, UA Mechanic losses occurred before AMFA went on strike at NWA, and before NWA filed for Chap 11.

AMFA in their first CBA at NWA raised the bar for mechanics in the entire industry.

Now that you 2 have stated the same as I, Anomaly admits that they too had benefited from AMFA's industry leading contract at NWA. Then he says they had to give it all back, therefore they gained nothing from AMFA at NWA. He better be glad he was at the rate of pay when they did give it all back, otherwise they would be paid a lot less than they are now as UAL still would have gone BK and still demanded the same percentile in wages as they did. It would be too much for his ego to admit that AMFA was the true reason the bar was raised for mechanic pay in the airline industry.

You two have created such a perfect fictional little world where everything can be explained within the boundaries of the amfa constitution. How convenient for you. The rest of us however live in the reality. The amfa strike and the losses at NorthWest was not on an overnight light switch turned on in 2005. While you dismiss amfa's lack of presence to what was happening at one of their largest carriers, the rest of us saw the union busting plan that was being driven by NWA. The plan had been in the works for as many as 18 months before the strike as NW openly trained replacement mechanics. amfa certainly did NOT help. They did however set an example for the rest of the industry, but that example was far from good.

http://www.teamster.org/sites/teamster.org/files/10112WhyAMFAFailedatNorthwestAirlines%282008%29.pdf
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/travel/flights/2009-02-27-delta-northwest-union_N.htm
http://www.tcdailyplanet.net/node/2850
http://mobile.zcommunications.org/northwest-strike-over-amfa-too-by-carl-finamore
http://www.topix.com/forum/business/airlines/TH3M4GL79B1SVD7I8

Some of the details you two eliminate in your little 2001 amfa fairy tale is the fact that NW was working under a contract written in 1991 and in 1993 was forced to cut an additional 12.5% of their pay or the company.

http://www.socialistviewpoint.org/may_01/may_01_7.html
http://news.minnesota.publicradio.org/features/200103/02_zdechlikm_nwa/
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2001/03/nowe-m12.html?view=print

The huge raise at NWA came with concessions negotiated by amfa. As with later contracts at SWA, and Alaska, these NW/amfa agreements centered around the ability to outsource. The company agreed to pay top dollar for the right to thin the ranks. Other airlines followed the trend (United was already taking advantage of the "20%" rule irresponsibly negotiated by the IAM). Outsourcing was the way of the future and NW realized the success in their plan. Even as they outsourced more and more maintenance functions, service remained un-interrupted.

The incrementally large jump in pay "negotiated" by amfa also provided the sympathy NW management needed to gain favor with the markets and the courts. I find it NO COINCIDENCE that NW offered the large increases that they did. NorthWest was so cleaver in their plan they even gained the assistance of the President Bush who was ready to offer "relief" to the union. It is my opinion that this support was nothing but a tool for the compnay to use later on in filig for bankruptcy. The PEB dove us to bnkruptcy with unrealistic wage increases, would be the eventual excuse. The goal of NW management was to bust the union and what better way to do that than to manipulate the members and divide the other work groups? Largely it worked and the mechanics were left on their own as politicians and management of other airlines watched the union demise with great support.

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/04/10/business/northwest-reaches-deal-with-mechanics.html?src=pm
http://www.solidarity-us.org/site/node/180
http://peoplesworld.org/editorial-support-the-northwest-airline-strikers/
http://www.socialistviewpoint.org/may_01/may_01_7.html
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2005/08/nwa-a23.html

Other than a few other lost souls on this board, not many would believe your declarations that the NW mechanic disaster was good for the industry. I have not been able to find a single article that defends the decisions by amfa the way you do. Most articles see the strike and treatment of the NW mechanics as a colossal failure with plenty of blame to go around. Even long time staunch amfa supporter Malik Miah from UA described the action at NW a "test" at best and stops well short of calling the strike a benefit. Capricious amfa activists like you two are quick to blame and quicker to excuse amfa failures as hidden victories. In the end, there is little support or agreement to your views.

http://www.solidarity-us.org/site/node/27
http://www.labornotes.org/2006/11/viewpoint-looking-back-northwest-strike
http://www.zcommunications.org/union-struggles-at-northwest-airlines-by-chris-kutalik
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2001/03/nowe-m12.html?view=print

 

[psa8979]

Bob the question was a simple one IBT,AMFA,TWU, or IAM ?

 

[Anomaly]

I too would like to see the numbers that put you at "just a pinch" over $40. At AA we too have some mechanics that make over $40/hr, actually around $42.50, but they are "Special". You see when Don Videtich sat down with the company and put in language to remove Company Paid Union Business from the elected Presidents, which they used as a pretext to justify liquidating the line maintenance locals, and instead have a new thing called UBI, "Union Business International" where he, who was appointed, could in turn appoint four people and put them on special committees or positions of his choosing where in addition to getting their regular 40 hours of pay a week they also get an additional 10 hours pay per week bringing them up to an adjusted rate of around $42.50 an hour (funny how in BK the company had to have this concession from the mechanics but nobody else, and when you do the math they agreed to pay the International appointees as much as they were saving by not paying the five elected Presidents yet still credited the concession to the mechanics deal, hmm). At the moment I hear these guys are running around the system, supposedly on an anti-IBT campaign, (being paid by the company?) even though the card drive has stopped and there has not even been a decision made as to whether or not there will even be a vote at AA,(its been reported that the TWU is claiming at least 1500 cards were fraudulent, if true there will be no vote so why the campaign?) but from what we hear they are running around bad mouthing the people the mechanics elected to the new local they forced the mechanics into when they dissolved the five line locals (you see the mechanics elected people the International didn't like, but the International forced bylaws on the mechanics in the new Local where if the people they elected are removed for any reason the International can get the people in that the members didn't elect, the ones where the International sent flyers promoting their guys to everyone's homes, without an election). You wont find that explicitly written in the contract either, but, is that how you get to "just a pinch over $40"?

Never mind. Not answering. You all will just have to figure it out, but no Bob. We do not have a bump in company pay for union activities. Not that I know of anyway?