Teamsters filed at USAir for representation

[xUT]

The IBT United folks have a retirement. It's just not the IAM pension. It's in the form of a 401k. In fact, the company, United airlines, puts more money into a topped out United mechanic's 401k than it contributes to the IAMPF.
That's the only math that counts! How much does a company put into a retirement? And they don't have a JCBA but are light years in front of the IAM at United. At least the IBT chose to stand by its members and refuse transition talks until management compensated its mechanics with a 12% pay increase over 2 years. How much did the IAM get? LMAO. Try ZERO because they supported management and coughed up section 6 talks.

The UA 401K match was created by the last BK AMFA contract. IBT did nothing to improve it. IBT promised UA M&R a pension then failed to give them one.
Dem's da facts Jack!

B) xUT

 

[robbedagain]

The UA 401K match was created by the last BK AMFA contract. IBT did nothing to improve it. IBT promised UA M&R a pension then failed to give them one.
Dem's da facts Jack!

B) xUT

if they cant keep their promise they ought to not make a promise esp if they do not intend to keep one

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

The UAL Boys Still have Life Time Recall.

The rest of the story.......

Lets say you get hired at UAL and laid off 3 years later, then recalled 10 years after that.....total time 13 years.

Before the teamsters CBA:

You'd return with 13 years seniority for pay, vacation, pass travel, and bidding purposes.

Now Under the teamsters CBA

You'd return with only 90 days over 3 years for pay, vacation, pass travel, and bidding purposes.

+ they increased the time to top out in pay to 7 years.


.......but yeah we still have "lifetime" recall rights.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

So, what makes the IAM structure of having locals in every city superior? I'm just wondering, because I didn't see any benefit. When I was in TWU, there were local station meetings monthly, and it was a local comprised of mx. With the IAM I was in a local dominated by ramp/cs. I'm currently AMFA, and back to a strictly mx local, which provides me far greater info/access than the IAM structure.

Well said.

Additionally, on the subject of locals, while in my experience with 3 unions here at UAL I have seen members at smaller stations belong to Locals often distant from them by more than a few miles, only under the ibt have I seen a membership at 1 point split as we are in SFO, and divided between locals.

Also its worth pointing out that here in SFO, our local meetings aren't business meetings, they're "craft" meetings, no union actual business is conducted or can be acted on in an official capacity. The actual local business meetings are held at night between the standard shifts in SFO thus all but guaranteeing minimal participation.... That is when they have them .... our local here in SFO has NO meetings 3 months out of the year.

 

[xUT]

700, stick to the topic. You brought up United, and I showed how you are full of S. BTW, what the h are you talking about regarding a 401??? Don't you ever read contracts? You claimed that the United IBT MX didn't have a retirement, and I pointed out that United pays more into their 401k than it does in the IAMPF.

As an aside, do you still think all 401k money is personal money? LMAO

UA M&R has a 401K match not because of the IBT.

FYI, after the match and funds are deposited into your 401K, it "IS" your personal money.
B) xUT

 

[Tim Nelson]

The UA 401K match was created by the last BK AMFA contract. IBT did nothing to improve it. IBT promised UA M&R a pension then failed to give them one.
Dem's da facts Jack!

B) xUT

Certainly not deniable. My comment to 700 was correct though that United puts more money into a topped out mechanic's retirement, than it does into an IAM United employee's IAMPF. The cost of the retirement plan is what I look at. I'll let the IBT use their IBT math, and the IAM use its IAM math in figuring out all the bull S of what comes out of the plans 30 years after vesting. Just because someone has a defined pension [something that is quite dinosauric in the midst of current tax laws] doesn't mean its better. And with the IAM, we have learned twice this decade that future benefits get 're defined'. As an IAM member, my pension has been pounded by the IAM pension trustees each time the pension fund suffers a big membership loss. The last one was the drop dead letter I received 3 days after Delta voted out the IAM. Trust me, it's no fun getting a letter from your union pension saying "Tuffa Lucka your defined benefit has been slashed in half." Bad things man, bad things. I personally wouldn't want to be in any union pension. Why the hell should a 3rd party get the money to manage? Manage the money yourself and have more access and control.

 

[Tim Nelson]

UA M&R has a 401K match not because of the IBT.

FYI, after the match and funds are deposited into your 401K, it "IS" your personal money.
B) xUT

true, it "IS". But 700 thinks that 'your' money is what is funding it. It's not, it is funded by the company.

 

[xUT]

if they cant keep their promise they ought to not make a promise esp if they do not intend to keep one

It was just a 'demo'...

When a young salesman met his untimely end, he was informed that he had a choice about where he would spend his eternity: Heaven or Hell. He was allowed to visit both places, and then make his decision afterwards.
"I'll see Heaven first," said the salesman, and an angel led through the gates on a private tour. Inside it was very peaceful and serene, and all the people there were playing harps and eating grapes. It looked very nice, but the salesman was not about to make a decision that could very well condemn him to a life of musical produce.
"Can I see Hell now?" he asked. The angel pointed him to the elevator, and he went down to the Basement where he was greeted by one of Satan's loyal followers. For the next half hour, the salesman was led through a tour of what appeared to be the best night clubs he'd ever seen. People were partying loudly, and having a, if you'll pardon the expression, Hell of a time.
When the tour ended, he was sent back up where the angel asked him if he had reached a final decision.
"Yes, I have," he replied. "As great as Heaven looks and all, I have to admit that Hell was more of my kind of place. I've decided to spend my eternity down there."
The salesman was sent to hell, where he was immediately thrown into a cave and was chained to a wall, and he was subjected to various tortures. "When I came down here for the tour," he yelled with anger and pain, "I was shown a whole bunch of bars and parties and other great stuff! What happened?!"

The devil replied, "Oh, that! That was just the Sales Demo."

B) xUT

 

[700UW]

The majority of money put into a 401k is the employees, if they dont contribute, there is nothing for the company to match.

Guess you dont understand that concept.

 

[737823]

The majority of money put into a 401k is the employees, if they dont contribute, there is nothing for the company to match.

Guess you dont understand that concept.

The co considers the cost of the contribution in negotiatons, are you that obtuse? Not having a pension liability would enable a higher base rate, lower medical or different work rules. Kevin has posted about this countless times do you not understand? Why has the IAMNPF slashed benefits for plan participants? Sure it's 105% funded and has no immediate risk of insolvency, only because they have slashed benefits promised to IAM members.

Like it or not, defined benefit pensions are a fantasy of the past. Some industries and unions may maintain them for the next 30 or so years but the trend of their demise is long underway and will only continue.

Josh

 

[Tim Nelson]

The majority of money put into a 401k is the employees, if they dont contribute, there is nothing for the company to match.

Guess you dont understand that concept.

earlier you said that the 401k money is your own money. I was merely pointing out that the company contributions that United {the company] has to make to the IBT mechanics retirement [in this case a 401k] is significantly more than what United [the company] has to contribute to the IAMPF for IAM members at United. Thus, the 401k is much more expensive for the company. Not sure but isn't the United MX 401k funded by the airline at 5% earnings without a match?

 

[737823]

Well ask the half the SFO mechanics are forced to be members in LAX.

MCO mechanics are forced to be members in MIA.

IAD, PHL and BWI members are forced to be members in NYC, under the IBT.

And mechanics for UPS are all in one local, so you can be in LAX and be a member of 2727 in SDF, if I remember correctly.

All places except for UPS have non-airline dominated locals under the IBT.

Funny that you as a staunch proponent of industrial union, namely the IAM are using craft union talking points. Isn't the industrial union spiel solidarity for all, organizing any and all workers?

And explain how this is any different than an IAM member wanting to get involved with the district lodge. Do DL 141 members have an open door to their offices in Chicago area? How does a member of 141 based in LAX attend 141 meetings?

Are all IAM members able to visit the glass palace in Upper Marlboro, MD and be apart of union dealings?

Josh

 

[Tim Nelson]

The co considers the cost of the contribution in negotiatons, are you that obtuse? Not having a pension liability would enable a higher base rate, lower medical or different work rules. Kevin has posted about this countless times do you not understand? Why has the IAMNPF slashed benefits for plan participants? Sure it's 105% funded and has no immediate risk of insolvency, only because they have slashed benefits promised to IAM members.

Like it or not, defined benefit pensions are a fantasy of the past. Some industries and unions may maintain them for the next 30 or so years but the trend of their demise is long underway and will only continue.

Josh

Josh, you are correct. I received a letter from the IAM Pension trustees telling me that my pension would be slashed 40% due to the risk of the IAMPF possibly being overtaken by the government. That "Drop Dead" letter was December 13, 2010. I was quite simply in shock as the IAM had betrayed me. A few years earlier, my company froze my pension, but having your own union slash your pension is treason. And you are correct, it is 105% funded when the trustees stole the future defined funds of the active participants and replenished the math. My concern is that this will happen again since it is a pure ponzie scheme where more folks are retiring and less are active.

As far as company cost, it's a win win to have a defined contribution plan. Defined pensions are dinosaurs. With this century's tax savings and portability, it makes no sense to be stuck in a plan where someone else has your money and is making money off of it. Never mind that if one is married, the spousal offset [automatic] hoses the member more, thus a reduced benefit.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Funny that you as a staunch proponent of industrial union, namely the IAM are using craft union talking points. Isn't the industrial union spiel solidarity for all, organizing any and all workers?

And explain how this is any different than an IAM member wanting to get involved with the district lodge. Do DL 141 members have an open door to their offices in Chicago area? How does a member of 141 based in LAX attend 141 meetings?

Are all IAM members able to visit the glass palace in Upper Marlboro, MD and be apart of union dealings?

Josh

Don't be misled by 700. AGC's don't necessarily have an office unless they have the same office as 700, i.e., home.
700 made good coffee at the local and was supposedly on the organizing team but nobody ever saw him and he spend most of his time at home on the union dime. Some even claimed it was part of the reason why he had to leave the company. 700 was an organizer and didn't even have any idea that the IAM filed cards in 98 for the ticket agents at US AIRWAYS.

He was a stooge on the negotiation team and didn't know it. When they signed a TA, he didn't even know he just signed over the jobs of the cleaners. When he found out, he transferred to another class just to save his job. Honestly, how much credit can you give someone if they were on a negotiation team and didn't even know he agreed to contract out his own job?

 

[700UW]

I see your lying again timmie.

Buy any A-cards lately with gift cards?

How stupid are you?

We never reached a deal with the company, the CBA was abrogated and a final offer was made by US and the judge made the membership vote on it.

There never was a TA that eliminated Utility.

Keep lying timmie