Teamsters filed at USAir for representation

[TRAVIS]

401K's were not intended to replace a defined plan. It was to supplement any current plan you had. Unfortunately many have been led to believe that a 401K is a direct replacement of a defined pension plan. Many financial experts have said that a 401K is not enough for one to retire on. With the addition of a defined pension plan it is a good supplement to the short falls of a defined plan. Many can not afford to contribute enough to a 401K to match what a defined plan can pay out. This is why we all are very critical of whatever pensions we have left. With all the talk of the Teamsters pensions being in trouble and underfunded as well as Hoffa pushing congress to pass Pension reform one should think long and hard before voting for the Teamsters. Too many questions unanswered. Once you pull the trigger on the Teamsters it may be too late. At least with the status quo you know what you have. It is not about pay but benefits that we all should be concerned about.

With a larger pay check I can put more money in 401K and the IBT has proven to have the highest pay scales. Even your man swamt has said swa got their largest raises with the IBT. Have you looked at your pay check? Well mine looks just as poor that's because WE ARE IN THE BOTTOM OF THE BARROW AND THE ONLY WAY OUT IS UP.... I do not want to be stuck under the IAM again and you don't want the TWU and now the two bottom feeder unions want's to tag team both of us. Well My AMT Brother I will go with the Union that Filed the cards I know they have the support.(by the way AMFA has no pension just 401k plan). You do know Mr 700 is a IAM mouth piece!!!
GO IBT
Have A Nice Night.

 

[TRAVIS]

BARREL lol long night

 

[john john]

[/size]

Reference Lie #5 -- You cannot be serious. Lazy, loud and obnoxious does not mean effective or competent... although it seems to be an IAM inner circle prerequisite.

Reference Lie #6 -- Reminds me of something...

Back around 2005 there was a union "activist" (ahem) who went to PHL as a stock clerk from CLT. He lasted only one shift, and word is he left early to fly home on that shift. Then he was caught abusing "union business lost time", while he tried out his new job (at Freightliner) and was working a probationary period. He was terminated by US, and the mighty IAM could not save his job. He betrayed his peers while falsifying "union business" so he could see if he could hack his new job. (Which he also failed at.)

After being terminated he attempted to portray himself on these boards as still working at US, deflecting several pointed questions and comments regarding his employment status. After a period of time, he announced he "had left US Airways" and attempted to rewrite history. (People usually "leave" after being terminated.)

Do you remember that guy, 700? What do you think of a union guy who files for "lost time union business" to draw a check while working another job? Whatever happened to him?

Finally

 

[700UW]

You are all funny, glad you all like to make up stories.

Typical board behavior, when you dont like what the posters says or cant refute the facts with debate, attack the poster.

 

[1AA]

With a larger pay check I can put more money in 401K and the IBT has proven to have the highest pay scales. Even your man swamt has said swa got their largest raises with the IBT. Have you looked at your pay check? Well mine looks just as poor that's because WE ARE IN THE BOTTOM OF THE BARROW AND THE ONLY WAY OUT IS UP.... I do not want to be stuck under the IAM again and you don't want the TWU and now the two bottom feeder unions want's to tag team both of us. Well My AMT Brother I will go with the Union that Filed the cards I know they have the support.(by the way AMFA has no pension just 401k plan). You do know Mr 700 is a IAM mouth piece!!!
GO IBT
Have A Nice Night.

A pay raise to make up a lose of your defined pension plan does match with what you can contribute on a 401K plan.

The max contribution of a 401K for 2013 is $17,500
At $70,000 salary you would need to contribute 25% of your pay to meet the max contribution of $17,500. Then if you are older than 50 you can add more. They call it a Catch Up contribution. That is a max of $5,500 for 2013.
So can you afford a 25% contribution?
Can you afford a Catch up contribution in addition to the 25% if your over 50?
Even if you made $150,000 a year you still have a limit on your 401K. Retirement analysts agree a 401K at its max does not replace what a traditional defined plan would have paid out. We all know that all the airlines have gone away from a defined plan and shifted to a 401K. So if you are relying on the IBT to fill in the gap on top of whatever you can afford to contribute in your 401K to make up the short falls of a defined plan think again. You have no solid guarantees from the IBT on pension payouts. The IBT has cut pension payouts more than once on already retired members. These guys planned out their retirements based on guarantee figures from the IBT before they retired.You have a good chance on going down the same path based on IBT pension payout experiences. If you are supporting the IBT for the reason of a pay raise think again. There is more than just money. Benefits and work rules will make or break your work and home lifestyle. BTW unless you get a pay raise before you join the IBT you will get another pay cut. Increased union dues over the IAM. But that is another subject.

 

[mike33]

A pay raise to make up a lose of your defined pension plan does match with what you can contribute on a 401K plan.

The max contribution of a 401K for 2013 is $17,500
At $70,000 salary you would need to contribute 25% of your pay to meet the max contribution of $17,500. Then if you are older than 50 you can add more. They call it a Catch Up contribution. That is a max of $5,500 for 2013.
So can you afford a 25% contribution?
Can you afford a Catch up contribution in addition to the 25% if your over 50?
Even if you made $150,000 a year you still have a limit on your 401K. Retirement analysts agree a 401K at its max does not replace what a traditional defined plan would have paid out. We all know that all the airlines have gone away from a defined plan and shifted to a 401K. So if you are relying on the IBT to fill in the gap on top of whatever you can afford to contribute in your 401K to make up the short falls of a defined plan think again. You have no solid guarantees from the IBT on pension payouts. The IBT has cut pension payouts more than once on already retired members. These guys planned out their retirements based on guarantee figures from the IBT before they retired.You have a good chance on going down the same path based on IBT pension payout experiences. If you are supporting the IBT for the reason of a pay raise think again. There is more than just money. Benefits and work rules will make or break your work and home lifestyle. BTW unless you get a pay raise before you join the IBT you will get another pay cut. Increased union dues over the IAM. But that is another subject.

Excellent ( Non-Deceiving ) post 1AA..... A lesson in financial economics. I prefer a Defined Pension funded by the company myself. One they cant send to the PBGC. I don't like the fact that the IAM pension was cut but it preserved it for the long haul. Our job now is to make sure the companies improve the contribution rate so we get back up to a decent rate x per month.

 

[Kev3188]

401K's were not intended to replace a defined plan. It was to supplement any current plan you had. Unfortunately many have been led to believe that a 401K is a direct replacement of a defined pension plan. Many financial experts have said that a 401K is not enough for one to retire on.

This is why it is *imperative* that any union focus on getting as high of both a contribution and match as possible.

The harrumphing of "we gotta save the pension" at the expense of everything else (Scope, medical, etc.) has been disastrous to labor of late. We need to collectively realize that, and leverage our numbers to maximize our gains under in the current day.

Many can not afford to contribute enough to a 401K to match what a defined plan can pay out.

That's because many people overextend/overspend/over consume, but that's a thread for another day.

 

[Kev3188]

Excellent ( Non-Deceiving ) post 1AA..... A lesson in financial economics. I prefer a Defined Pension funded by the company myself. One they cant send to the PBGC. I don't like the fact that the IAM pension was cut but it preserved it for the long haul. Our job now is to make sure the companies improve the contribution rate so we get back up to a decent rate x per month.

I hear ya, but that's *exactly* why I prefer a 401k with a large contribution/match. Once the money is in my hands, it's mine. In my hands now. Not subject to the PBGC, not subject to a freeze.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Excellent ( Non-Deceiving ) post 1AA..... A lesson in financial economics. I prefer a Defined Pension funded by the company myself. One they cant send to the PBGC. I don't like the fact that the IAM pension was cut but it preserved it for the long haul. Our job now is to make sure the companies improve the contribution rate so we get back up to a decent rate x per month.

So, you would want to have the company put more money into the IAMPF instead of wages/benefits, presumably so you can get back up to a higher level of IAMPF benefits? And you don't see that hole in your pocket where the IAM pension trustees can once again cut future benefits? Doesn't make any sense to me.

IAM guarantees the pension then cuts future benefits almost in half, then asks the company to shift more $$ on your behalf into that fund once again. What happens if the IAM pension trustees reduce future benefits a
3rd time? Will you support even more money going into the IAMPF a third time to risk getting a 4th whacking? Hell, at some point, the company will be paying the IAMPF more money than it does for other things. Doesn't make any sense, especially if the new federal laws pass that allow a union to go in and tap 'current' benefits. I'd rather have any additional benefits into vacation, health, wage instead of dumping an increased benefit from the company into a fund that has a huge downward trend because it is a dinosaur like all defined benefit plans that restrict choices and shift funds. If you can't see the terrible trend of all defined benefits then I'm amazed. United airlines refused vehemently to toss in any more employees into the IAMPF, due to liability issues, even though the IAM begged and pleaded a few months ago to get the additional 16,000 continental members into the fund.

I'm more worried if the US AIRWAYS MX vote out the IAM and the plan takes another whack. Last time a group voted the IAM out, we got the drop dead letters 3 days later. regards,

 

[737823]

Tim,
I believe Sito has said he hopes to get the DL FAs into the IAMNPF, of course that is if the IAM gets certified at DL and the company agrees to this. The IAM doesn't currently represent FAs at any major carrier, correct? Mostly just FAs at small carrier like ASA and ExpressJet, right?

Josh

 

[Tim Nelson]

I hear ya, but that's *exactly* why I prefer a 401k with a large contribution/match. Once the money is in my hands, it's mine. In my hands now. Not subject to the PBGC, not subject to a freeze.

Not subject to PBGC OR the IAM Pension trustees. I'm totally amazed at some of the old timers who don't understand that defined benefit plans are dinosaurs from a different era. The tax advantages of the new plans, along with culture changes where folks want more choices and control have made defined benefit plans look, um, well, quite silly.

And my comments aren't necessarily directed at the IAMPF. All defined plans are in serious trouble, especially multi employer ones. I know not all IBT plans are in trouble but any union pension plan is on the slippery slope down the hill. If the new federal laws pass then, who is going to suffer most? Those strong union people who rented out their brains to their union and put their eggs in the union pension.
regards,

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim,
I believe Sito has said he hopes to get the DL FAs into the IAMNPF, of course that is if the IAM gets certified at DL and the company agrees to this. The IAM doesn't currently represent FAs at any major carrier, correct? Mostly just FAs at small carrier like ASA and ExpressJet, right?

Josh

The IAM organizing drive at Delta is really lacking. I have seen some of the organizing materials and it seems like they are using the IAMPF as an organizing tool. I believe that to be incredibly naïve. They just don't listen. At AirTran, I refused to use any mention of the IAMPF. Then when Ira Levy attempted to incorporate it in the plan for the United ramp, I refused and tossed that goofy idea away. Ira blew the continental flight attendant campaign up by scaring the AFA members about the IAMPF. AFA made sure their members were informed. Cripes, not even the Continental stews wanted it. [Well, incorporating in his organizing campaign to leave ORD alone and just work the cafeteria on pass thrus was the kiss of death in that campaign]
Ira and Sito think they are a lot smarter than blue collar guys but they are both highly ignorant and really have no concept of labor. Neither really gives a rip about the IAM either.

But hey, Sito just promoted Ira yesterday. Ira has a great resume. He lost 10,000 flight attendants that his organizing drive failed to deliver. He blew up the United contracts when he supported management. Now he gets a promotion for it. Morons!

regards,

 

[737823]

You are right, just off the wires:

http://www.goiam.org/index.php/imail/latest/11584-buffenbarger-names-key-transportation-staff

Josh

 

[Tim Nelson]

You are right, just off the wires:

http://www.goiam.org/index.php/imail/latest/11584-buffenbarger-names-key-transportation-staff

Josh

Humphreys never took part in any organizing drives, fwiw. I directed the United ramp and didn't even use him. Not amazingly, Sito gives him full credit for winning organizing drives and will pin future organizing drives on his shoulder. Ira does have experience at collective bargaining and organizing. The same experience as a losing pitcher who is on a 10 game losing streak. regards,

 

[robbedagain]

tim are you helpin to organize dl