Teamsters card drive

[anotherdelay]

I know that the Teamsters Central States was pushing for that one but I'm not sure if I recall it being passed or not? Isn't that last one still kind of lingering out there Tim?

And I'm BY FAR not selling anyone that if given the choice they should get in or get out of the IAMPF. That last funding letter is a case for concern absolutely. I'd like to know (find out) if those future liabilities have now leveled off? Will those liabilities start to go down against what's going in once the Baby Boomers start to croak?

the iampf pension issue is dead. it's not viable without a government bailout. Low interest rates finished them, add decrease in membership. Yes, they sound wonderful, but even Warren Buffet couldn't make them whole right now. Look for increased dues and less payout soon. And I'm bullish on the long term stock market 20 years. Look, there is thing called due dilegence, and the iampf fails on it. Now can the Twu create language to unfreeze our pensions and merge us with the iampf, well they can try but fortunately guys like Chilokie, Bob, and others are on the case, and all of us have to be vigilant.
If AA, moves a dime of our money, we have to make sure they can explain the due diligence on the fund as well, and not just say, your internationals, own the contract, and were supposed to have done it. UH NO, not going to happen anymore, company will be liable as well. These boards make the case too btw. Next, iam has to freeze this fund, and do what's right for the majority of members, and negotiate better matches for members, and lower their union dues. The pensions, let alone multi-employer union ones are all flawed. Ups guys, are losing their pensions thanks to being in a failed multi-employer union plan, although UPS has fully funded it.

 

[anotherdelay]

http://www.pensionrights.org/create-content/action/story-bank

and Isom should brief himself on Kleine Miller

and you iam guys with 20 years to go, and now making decent wages better educate yourself on what's going on too.

 

[Bob Owens]

You edited:

I agree with what you said "IF" the Company wasn't taking an automatic no choice deferal of 3% out of our checks.

No one is putting in nothing because you don't have any choice not to feed that voracious Stock Market.

You are wrong, while the company automatically enrolls but employees can and do opt out and put in ZERO.

 

[WeAAsles]

You are wrong, while the company automatically enrolls but employees can and do opt out and put in ZERO.

Didn't realize there were people doing that. Well if that small percentage is doing that then maybe a percentage of them don't want to be in the Super Saver at all? Wouldn't those same people rather have the wages then instead to do with as they see fit rather than an automatic contribution in lieu?

I might prefer that instead?

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/401ks-when-opting-out-makes-sense-1319035249518

 

[Bob Owens]

Didn't realize there were people doing that. Well if that small percentage is doing that then maybe a percentage of them don't want to be in the Super Saver at all? Wouldn't those same people rather have the wages then instead to do with as they see fit rather than an automatic contribution in lieu?

I might prefer that instead?

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/401ks-when-opting-out-makes-sense-1319035249518

Why cant you just admit you were wrong? Why do you insist on making inane points afterwards? You know the answers, and to your final question its not an option.

 

[WeAAsles]

Why cant you just admit you were wrong? Why do you insist on making inane points afterwards? You know the answers, and to your final question its not an option.

I was wrong. Can we get back to post # 50 now?

 

[Bob Owens]

I was wrong. Can we get back to post # 50 now?

NOPE, you have some nerve asking me personal questions while you hide behind an alias.

 

[WeAAsles]

NOPE, you have some nerve asking me personal questions while you hide behind an alias.

Bob we've gone through this before remember. David Eivers.

 

[Bob Owens]

Ok Dave, while I haven't posted much for a while I did stop by occasionally and read, lately I found myself with a little extra time so I decided to voice some of my opinions and concerns again. I really do not want to get stuck into the IAMNPF and I really want out of this sham Association. The fact is the agreement to get us into the IAMNPF is still there, and it is just as enforceable as the Association agreement itself.
I also am 100% against our title group being split between two Unions. I told them that they should either keep all Fleet in the IAM and all M&R in the TWU or vica versa but under no circumstances should we be split up. Many others agreed, never found anyone even within the organization who felt that this is a good structure. While in office I was Vocal in my opposition, Samuelson said they took it to the Lawyers and there was no way out-but they found a way out of the CWA deal and I know if it was Local 100 that was going to be split he would have found a way out. Lombardo was a fighter, but he was just as comfortable fighting his members as the company without bothering to get an in depth perspective on what was going on. Don't get me wrong, he was much better than Little. But I personally witnessed him repeatedly say that the mechanics should leave if they don't like the way they do things at the TWU. No interest in hearing their concerns whatsoever, in fact the only mechanic he pulled into the International was Dale Danker who was fresh off the floor of Tulsa. I'd recommended Larry Pike due to the fact that he has worked both OH and Line and was well liked in both the Line and OH. Larry also had supported the Lombardo ticket while Tulsa sat on the fence. Larry never sold out the line. Instead the International chose to stack the ATD with Fleet, Alex Garcia, Dave Virella, (I know he retired), Sean Doyle, all good guys but not Maintenance, just a token Maintenance guy fresh off the floor to sit in on a Committee, no real input into the direction of the ATD. Line Maintenance, now the largest group in M&R had no voice on the International. The fact is the Associations two year trial run has failed miserably, not only have they not aggressively gone after the company for not delivering the "best in the industry" we have not even achieved parity within the company, within our own title group. The fact is the LAA mechanics have the worst deal in the industry by far, worse than many non-union-can you say that about Fleet? Next Monday is just one example, there will be Legacy AA guys getting straight time for working the Holiday while the LUS guy gets doubletime. If the LAA guy calls in sick, he loses half a days pay, we don't even have parity within our own Union as other groups such as yours still get full pay. I gave my input, I gave them time, I stayed fairly quiet but they have not done anything to earn continued silence and sacrifice.

I don't see things getting better, Samuelson is a good leader but he has a thing against Craft Unions. He doesn't get the Airline Industry culture, he doesn't understand the RLA and its effects on airline representation and negotiations. Look at the most effective Locals in the TWU, The SWA group, two Craft Locals within an Industrial Union. Even Fleet at AA could be considered a Craft structure. While Fleet Presidents could sit in on M&R and Vote no M&R can sit in Fleet unless somehow the Fleet guys elect a title II guy to be President. When Title II from Local 510 petitioned to join Local 591, in full agreement with their Local Leadership due to cost issues (Local 510 had no Fllet service members in some locations but Local 591 did) the International blocked the move. Why? To keep that thorn in our side that's why. We are talking a handful of guys but also the elimination of a Fleet guy at the M&R table that's why. Currently M&R is three M&R representing around 7 thousand and 4 Fleet representing a few hundred. The Fleet Dominated ATD has something against Line Maintenance and every chance they get they screw us.

 

[1AA]

Ok Dave, while I haven't posted much for a while I did stop by occasionally and read, lately I found myself with a little extra time so I decided to voice some of my opinions and concerns again. I really do not want to get stuck into the IAMNPF and I really want out of this sham Association. The fact is the agreement to get us into the IAMNPF is still there, and it is just as enforceable as the Association agreement itself.
I also mam 100% against our title group being split between two Unions. I told them that they should either keep all Fleet in the IAM and all M&R in the TWU or vica versa but under no circumstances should we be split up. Many others agreed, never found anyone even within the organization who felt that this is a good structure. While in office I was Vocal in my opposition, Samuelson said they took it to the Lawyers and there was no way out-but they found a way out of the CWA deal and I know if it was Local 100 that was going to be split he would have found a way out. Lombardo was a fighter, but he was just as comfortable fighting his members as the company without bothering to get an in depth perspective on what was going on. Don't get me wrong, he was much better than Little. But I personally witnessed him repeatedly say that the mechanics should leave if they don't like the way they do things at the TWU. No interest in hearing their concerns whatsoever, in fact the only mechanic he pulled into the International was Dale Danker who was fresh off the floor of Tulsa. I'd recommended Larry Pike due to the fact that he has worked both OH and Line and was well liked in both the Line and OH. Larry also had supported the Lombardo ticket while Tulsa sat on the fence. Larry never sold out the line. Instead the International chose to stack the ATD with Fleet, Alex Garcia, Dave Virella, (I know he retired), Sean Doyle, all good guys but not Maintenance, just a token Maintenance guy fresh off the floor to sit in on a Committee, no real input into the direction of the ATD. Line Maintenance, now the largest group in M&R had no voice on the International. The fact is the Associations two year trial run has failed miserably, not only have they not aggressively gone after the company for not delivering the "best in the industry" we have not even achieved parity within the company, within our own title group. The fact is the LAA mechanics have the worst deal in the industry by far, worse than many non-union-can you say that about Fleet? Next Monday is just one example, there will be Legacy AA guys getting straight time for working the Holiday while the LUS guy gets doubletime. If the LAA guy calls in sick, he loses half a days pay, we don't even have parity within our own Union as other groups such as yours still get full pay. I gave my input, I gave them time, I stayed fairly quiet but they have not done anything to earn continued silence and sacrifice.

I don't see things getter better, Samuelson is a good leader but he has a thing against Craft Unions. He doesn't get the Airline Industry culture. Look at the most effective Locals in the TWU, The SWA group, two Craft Locals within an Industrial Union. Even Fleet at AA could be considered a Craft structure. While Fleet Presidents could sit in on M&R and Vote no M&R can sit in Fleet unless somehow the Fleet guys elect a title II guy to be President. When Title II from Local 510 petitioned to join Local 591, in full agreement with their Local Leadership due to cost issues (Local 510 had no Fllet service members in some locations but Local 591 did) the International blocked the move. Why? To keep that thorn in our side that's why. We are talking a handful of guys but also the elimination of a Fleet guy at the M&R table that's why. Currently M&R is three M&R representing around 7 thousand and 4 Fleet representing a few hundred. The Fleet Dominated ATD has something against Line Maintenance and every chance they get they screw us.

Very good post Bob. I just can't figure out why our own guys knowingly are getting screwed over still don't have the motivation to dump the TWU and this scam association.

 

[Bob Owens]

Very good post Bob. I just can't figure out why our own guys knowingly are getting screwed over still don't have the motivation to dump the TWU and this scam association.

They would if they had the opportunity to do so without effort. So much effort was given over the years but failed, many don't realize that things have dramatically changed and myself included am not sure how the Association affects a Representation Drive. If just the TWU represented guys petitioned for a Vote would we be able to have one? If so would the Association agreements still be binding? The fact is for the last two years we were stuck with the Association no matter what, now that two year window is up. We are free to file for new representation. The Association came into existence through a Lie, they said we would get to vote on it then they denied us the vote. If they had been honest they may have been challenged, so we know why they lied, but should we stay and trust an organization that does not trust us?

 

[chilokie1]

Very good post Bob. I just can't figure out why our own guys knowingly are getting screwed over still don't have the motivation to dump the TWU and this scam association.

Because many still believe the TWU is working in our best interest & that they have final say in the contract process. Many cannot comprehend how easy the ASS can manipulate the results of a vote for a joint contract, by keeping the IAM contract in tact & bring in the TWU members to their pension
would get most IAM members to vote yes (IMO). You would then only need 33% of TWU votes cast to get a joint contract passed, 20% will not even vote from the TWU while I believe the IAM will be able to get out a higher % because of fear of losing their investment they have already made in the IAMPF.

I hope that I'am wrong but judging the complacent history of TWU voters in the past it makes me believe I'am close to the numbers

Now the scope issue could change that but I believe the language will not be as strong as it needs to be & will read like the scope agreement is stronger then it is. But once again MHO.

 

[Bob Owens]

Chilokie1

https://www.goiam.org/press-release...-for-4600-mechanic-and-related-at-us-airways/

Don't think things are as rosy on the IAM side as you think. 1900 to stay 1400 to go out of 4600. 1200 didn't bother to vote. So only 1900 out of 4600 wanted to stay with the IAM. Remember in order to get it to a vote they had to get at least 2300 cards signed.

 

[swamt]

Why cant you just admit you were wrong? Why do you insist on making inane points afterwards? You know the answers, and to your final question its not an option.

Why do you insist on answering him when most of us has stopped. He is not a mechanic where this is mechanic (maint) related thread. I know he is part of the same union under the same contract but hie issues need to stay in the fleet thread. I am sure many here would agree.

They would if they had the opportunity to do so without effort. So much effort was given over the years but failed, many don't realize that things have dramatically changed and myself included am not sure how the Association affects a Representation Drive. If just the TWU represented guys petitioned for a Vote would we be able to have one? If so would the Association agreements still be binding? The fact is for the last two years we were stuck with the Association no matter what, now that two year window is up. We are free to file for new representation. The Association came into existence through a Lie, they said we would get to vote on it then they denied us the vote. If they had been honest they may have been challenged, so we know why they lied, but should we stay and trust an organization that does not trust us?

Now Bob don't take this post personally, but you know me and I am just going to be blunt. I tried to warn you guys many times that you guys were NOT going to have a vote on the association. I spent hours for days on the phone with the NMB, and posted all my findings in the original thread to show all what I found. I then put word out to YOU Bob personally to get the members my information as I knew you had the right connections. Some (very few I might add) here in the threads believed me, a couple doubted me and challenged me, and two fought me to the bitter end that you guys would get a vote, until up to the day that guess what, just as I said it was gonna go down. NMB ruled that they had "no jurisdiction" on that type of representational vote and that it would be handled by the union themselves, and BAM! It happened, overnight you guys were all of a sudden a combined association without one single vote from the membership or one iota of a word put into it. Even 700 had you guys believing (some of you) that I was just a planted AMFA organizer lying my ass off when it was the TWU/IAM lying their asses off to you guys just so you guys would not sign a card to have the unions removed from the property and that is why this association was forced upon this membership. Why didn't you believe me Bob? Cuz I really can't believe any of you would believe that dum-a$$ 700 and all the other characters that were following in his footsteps to rty their dambness to discredit me. What is completely f'd up is that a mechanic from another airline did all the work to find and prove all this to you guys and not one from the AA membership took the time to call the NMB until it was too late, and yes 2 guys did do a follow up and backed everything I said and you guys still believed every single word the TWU/IAM, 700, weasles, and others promised you guys. That is not only sad it's Pathetic man. Sorry but had to throw that out there cuz it is the truth and always has been, you guys ignored it, I just tried my best to bring it to you...

 

[WeAAsles]

Ok Dave, while I haven't posted much for a while I did stop by occasionally and read, lately I found myself with a little extra time so I decided to voice some of my opinions and concerns again. I really do not want to get stuck into the IAMNPF and I really want out of this sham Association. The fact is the agreement to get us into the IAMNPF is still there, and it is just as enforceable as the Association agreement itself.
I also am 100% against our title group being split between two Unions. I told them that they should either keep all Fleet in the IAM and all M&R in the TWU or vica versa but under no circumstances should we be split up. Many others agreed, never found anyone even within the organization who felt that this is a good structure. While in office I was Vocal in my opposition, Samuelson said they took it to the Lawyers and there was no way out-but they found a way out of the CWA deal and I know if it was Local 100 that was going to be split he would have found a way out. Lombardo was a fighter, but he was just as comfortable fighting his members as the company without bothering to get an in depth perspective on what was going on. Don't get me wrong, he was much better than Little. But I personally witnessed him repeatedly say that the mechanics should leave if they don't like the way they do things at the TWU. No interest in hearing their concerns whatsoever, in fact the only mechanic he pulled into the International was Dale Danker who was fresh off the floor of Tulsa. I'd recommended Larry Pike due to the fact that he has worked both OH and Line and was well liked in both the Line and OH. Larry also had supported the Lombardo ticket while Tulsa sat on the fence. Larry never sold out the line. Instead the International chose to stack the ATD with Fleet, Alex Garcia, Dave Virella, (I know he retired), Sean Doyle, all good guys but not Maintenance, just a token Maintenance guy fresh off the floor to sit in on a Committee, no real input into the direction of the ATD. Line Maintenance, now the largest group in M&R had no voice on the International. The fact is the Associations two year trial run has failed miserably, not only have they not aggressively gone after the company for not delivering the "best in the industry" we have not even achieved parity within the company, within our own title group. The fact is the LAA mechanics have the worst deal in the industry by far, worse than many non-union-can you say that about Fleet? Next Monday is just one example, there will be Legacy AA guys getting straight time for working the Holiday while the LUS guy gets doubletime. If the LAA guy calls in sick, he loses half a days pay, we don't even have parity within our own Union as other groups such as yours still get full pay. I gave my input, I gave them time, I stayed fairly quiet but they have not done anything to earn continued silence and sacrifice.

I don't see things getting better, Samuelson is a good leader but he has a thing against Craft Unions. He doesn't get the Airline Industry culture, he doesn't understand the RLA and its effects on airline representation and negotiations. Look at the most effective Locals in the TWU, The SWA group, two Craft Locals within an Industrial Union. Even Fleet at AA could be considered a Craft structure. While Fleet Presidents could sit in on M&R and Vote no M&R can sit in Fleet unless somehow the Fleet guys elect a title II guy to be President. When Title II from Local 510 petitioned to join Local 591, in full agreement with their Local Leadership due to cost issues (Local 510 had no Fllet service members in some locations but Local 591 did) the International blocked the move. Why? To keep that thorn in our side that's why. We are talking a handful of guys but also the elimination of a Fleet guy at the M&R table that's why. Currently M&R is three M&R representing around 7 thousand and 4 Fleet representing a few hundred. The Fleet Dominated ATD has something against Line Maintenance and every chance they get they screw us.

Thanks Bob. I agree with most of the things you said here actually and the ones I don't quite agree with I'm not going to argue with you out of personal respect.

On the last line though all you have to do is read how FSC people are treated (I earn it myself some) when any of us comment on one of their threads and "maybe" that's why some people feel the way they do "unfortunately" about Maintenance. But there is some level of reciprocation which I find personally shameful.

Yes I did hear that Lombardo and co. did try to get us out of the deal but Little made sure it was rock solid. The CWA thing we're not completely out of yet either. There's still the matter of a lease agreement in DC (Whether it's a good place to be or not) That lease seems pretty expensive but what do I know about Real Estate prices in the Nations Capital?

Did you ever hear a rumor that Pike, Danker and Peterson were asked to take a seat but none of them could decide amongst each other? (Since you put this out there) I'm not 100% committed to this "Autonomy" thing myself but it's the price to be paid for the Little regimes heavy hand I guess?

I like Doyle and Virella was cool with me but we both know experience or not they put their best foot forward and went full bore for Lombardo against Gordon so that's not a surprise. But no 100% you need to have a Maintenance guy in the ATD 100%. I have ZERO argument against that. Maybe Gless put a bitter taste in some people's mouths but it's high time to put him in the past and move forward, IMO. I'm hopping it happens after we get that JCBA and if not I would gladly join anyone who would have me in that push. (Frankly Peterson has really impressed me lately)

As for Samuelsen I don't know the man personally but I like the "real" stories I've read about him in the papers. And if he doesn't know the Airlines I hope he's a quick learner and has people that will force feed it down his throat if need be? Otherwise for now Garcia knows our issues very well in the meantime. But Political activation for Aircraft Maintenance HAS to become a future primary focus, again IMO. I just don't read much of a push in that area from anyone where I think it should be. And that goes for AMFA, IAM, IBT and the TWU as well.