As he posted AMFA will not start a card drive. It takes a grass roots effort from the mechanics to get a card drive going. May I suggest a different pole to see if the ranks are ready to do a card drive for what UPNAWAY suggested as a private in house group represent you and Maybe throw AMFA out there too as well as that AMP group you guys were doing before. It will be a lot harder now with the IAM now involved. But if something big comes out with this asso's first combined contract, it will be the last and final time you guys will have (my opinion) to get this asso out of there. Otherwise you guys are stuck with them for life, and that's why the combined without a membership vote, to save their asses from getting removed from the property. Good luck to all of you in what ever you decide to do.
Teamsters card drive
- Thread starter bigjets
- Start date
As he posted AMFA will not start a card drive. It takes a grass roots effort from the mechanics to get a card drive going. May I suggest a different pole to see if the ranks are ready to do a card drive for what UPNAWAY suggested as a private in house group represent you and Maybe throw AMFA out there too as well as that AMP group you guys were doing before. It will be a lot harder now with the IAM now involved. But if something big comes out with this asso's first combined contract, it will be the last and final time you guys will have (my opinion) to get this asso out of there. Otherwise you guys are stuck with them for life, and that's why the combined without a membership vote, to save their asses from getting removed from the property. Good luck to all of you in what ever you decide to do.
Status quo will rule the day for many years to come at AA. Those of us supporting AMFA thought an election was doable, even with 3 to 1 odds against us. Now with 4 to 1, NMB/AA/TWU/IAM, you can only hope for an internal rival union meltdown. Sadly I was content at AA to spend the rest of my days on hand pay/agency fee. The early out/retirement option changed everything and I haven't looked back.
I did too Birdman. I would just once like to see the fellas at AA get a chance at a different union for them. I just want to see a big change for them on what the membership wants instead of what the TWU/IAM wants. I really do think this asso is the wrong way to go. Too many control changes (especially during contract nego's) and way too many big differences in their contracts that it will very hard to keep one sides or the other of doing things and get it to pass. Whatever the guys decide to do at AA I would support 100%
787nightmare
Veteran
- Aug 28, 2010
- 722
- 153
Some of the attitudes about changing representation I saw while at AA TULE was stunning. It's no wonder those boys are still stuck with the twu (& iam) booty bump.
As long as TULE is involved with the process....you guys are STUCK w this.....
TWU/IAM clusterf "association".
Talk about a 3 way.....smh
As long as TULE is involved with the process....you guys are STUCK w this.....
TWU/IAM clusterf "association".
Talk about a 3 way.....smh
I'm still surprised the teamsters are not fired from UAL yet. Is there anything going on over there like a card drive or something? Anything?
There were flyers around for altaunited and twu for a while, and IBT put out a letter saying how bad it would be for mechs if they changed unions........
787;
Speaking of Legacy AA ;
TULE doesn't have the numbers they once had so nobody can really blame Tulsa anymore. The line not only now outnumbers Tulsa but all legacy AA OH. With the older airplanes disappearing OH numbers are only getting smaller. That's what Local 514 told them to vote for.
Tulsa now only has around 2700 Title 1 out of a total of over 7000. Its roughly 3000 Total OH Title 1 (AMT, OSM, Cleaners included), and 4300 Line A&P, and around 1650 Title II spread out between two OH Locals, one line Local and four Fleet service Locals. Local 591, the Line Local now has a little more half the total members in the class and craft. They would have a clear majority if the TWU put Title II from Fleet Dominated Locals in New York, DFW, SFO and DCA in 591. In fact some of the Title II members from Fleet Dominated Locals voted to join 591, their Fleet Service Local agreed to let them go because it cost them more to represent than they received, but the International put a stop to it. There are no M&R guys in top positions withing the TWU, only Fleet.
Speaking of Legacy AA ;
TULE doesn't have the numbers they once had so nobody can really blame Tulsa anymore. The line not only now outnumbers Tulsa but all legacy AA OH. With the older airplanes disappearing OH numbers are only getting smaller. That's what Local 514 told them to vote for.
Tulsa now only has around 2700 Title 1 out of a total of over 7000. Its roughly 3000 Total OH Title 1 (AMT, OSM, Cleaners included), and 4300 Line A&P, and around 1650 Title II spread out between two OH Locals, one line Local and four Fleet service Locals. Local 591, the Line Local now has a little more half the total members in the class and craft. They would have a clear majority if the TWU put Title II from Fleet Dominated Locals in New York, DFW, SFO and DCA in 591. In fact some of the Title II members from Fleet Dominated Locals voted to join 591, their Fleet Service Local agreed to let them go because it cost them more to represent than they received, but the International put a stop to it. There are no M&R guys in top positions withing the TWU, only Fleet.
Not interested in the IBT but if that was the only way to save my pension (401K match and possible future contribution) from being replaced with the IAMNPF I would go for it. Don't really want Amfa at this point either, they dont seem very interested but if that was the only way to stay out of the IAMNPF, I'd go for it-Doesn't AMFA have an 8% 401K contribution at SWA?
I'd rather see us form a new organization that leaves the door open for other groups to come with us. (That's pretty much the only thing the IBT has going for it) As long as the Association refuses to agree to rip up the agreement on the IAMNPF staying with the TWU and IAM is a threat to our retirement security. Our retirement secirity will be sacrificed to bolster up the IAMNPF and handcuff us to the Association. If SWA can give their Mechanics an 8% contribution, and AA gives our Flight Attendants as much as 9% and our Pilots 17% we should be able to do much better than the 5.5%match or the IAMNPF.
IIRC the IAMNPF is $2.20/hr but only for regular hours worked, so the most you will ever see is $4576 being put into your pension, it could be much less if you lose time due to illness or injury or if you CS, even if your total hours are in excess of 2080 hours you could still get less.
With our Current match, the lowest for mechanics and the lowest of Licensed Union workers at AA the Match is 5.5% so the max hourly Contribution is now $2.72 per hour for all hours worked, so a minimum of $5665 plus OT and CS
If we had the AMFA rate we would be getting $3.98 an hour or $8240 a year plus any additional hours.
For those older guys at AA, the max 9% the FAs get would come out to $4.45 an hour or $9270 plus any additional hours
If we got the 17% the pilots get we would see$8.42 an hour or $17,510 plus any extra hours. We need around 17% to make up for what we lost with the freezing of our pensions in the last decades of our employment.* I would have earned nearly as much on my final pension the last 10 years as I did the first 20.
So $4576, around $1000 less than they are putting in now without OT or CS, for a promise from a fund run by a Union we don't even belong to. I think we deserve better.
*17% from the company plus max contribution from our paychecks IIRC.
I'd rather see us form a new organization that leaves the door open for other groups to come with us. (That's pretty much the only thing the IBT has going for it) As long as the Association refuses to agree to rip up the agreement on the IAMNPF staying with the TWU and IAM is a threat to our retirement security. Our retirement secirity will be sacrificed to bolster up the IAMNPF and handcuff us to the Association. If SWA can give their Mechanics an 8% contribution, and AA gives our Flight Attendants as much as 9% and our Pilots 17% we should be able to do much better than the 5.5%match or the IAMNPF.
IIRC the IAMNPF is $2.20/hr but only for regular hours worked, so the most you will ever see is $4576 being put into your pension, it could be much less if you lose time due to illness or injury or if you CS, even if your total hours are in excess of 2080 hours you could still get less.
With our Current match, the lowest for mechanics and the lowest of Licensed Union workers at AA the Match is 5.5% so the max hourly Contribution is now $2.72 per hour for all hours worked, so a minimum of $5665 plus OT and CS
If we had the AMFA rate we would be getting $3.98 an hour or $8240 a year plus any additional hours.
For those older guys at AA, the max 9% the FAs get would come out to $4.45 an hour or $9270 plus any additional hours
If we got the 17% the pilots get we would see$8.42 an hour or $17,510 plus any extra hours. We need around 17% to make up for what we lost with the freezing of our pensions in the last decades of our employment.* I would have earned nearly as much on my final pension the last 10 years as I did the first 20.
So $4576, around $1000 less than they are putting in now without OT or CS, for a promise from a fund run by a Union we don't even belong to. I think we deserve better.
*17% from the company plus max contribution from our paychecks IIRC.
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Hey Bob, just wanted to give you the correct numbers. Our 401K matches dollar for dollar up to 9.3% not 8%. AMFA is currently trying to get that % a tad higher and I think the ask is around 12%. Some will see that number as being high but it's really not. We have no pension like other airlines do and some with both pensions and other retirement packages. Not sure what the hourly would work out to but using just round figures looks like around 9.30 to 10.00? I don't know you can run it though.
Bob,
Here are a few clarifications:
1. Flight Attendants go back to 5.5% in 18 or 19.
2. Pax has 5.5%.
3. Pension for new hire is still $2.20 hr. or $4576 a yr. In other words, greater than 5.5%. New hire under 401k less.
4. When AWA went into IAMNPF we were vested if we had 5 years with the company, assume same will happen if LAA went into pension.
5. 1601 hrs. per year gets full pension credit for year.
6. 600-1600 hrs. per year gets prorated.
Don't get me wrong, you make good points but needed to clarify. Before anyone hammers, I'm not trying to sell anything, just making sure facts are out there.
P. Rez
Jester
Veteran
Just a further point of clarification? You mentioned the 1,601 hour minimum, does that include part-time people, as well? Plenty of part-time people work full-time hours, and they would get full-value with a matching 401K. Otherwise someone could be working insane hours, but getting only a greatly reduced pension benefit as being only part-time status.
Jester,
A PT employee would get full credit with 1601 hrs. per year of the PT multiplier. Prorated for 600-1600 hrs. per year. If a PT employee works FT hrs., they do not get FT benefit.
P. Rez
They would most likely be vested. Who knows if any credits, that would depend on if the LAA pension was rolled into the IAMNPF. Dont know the legalities of that, theory only.
P. Rez
