Southwest to Add In PIT

[BoeingBoy]

Only flaw in above is ......

Not worth it mrman - facts make no difference to a closed mind......

Jim

 

[sfb]

Why do people act like stopping DEN-LAS service is some kind of big deal....or something that shows how pathetic they are or something like that. DEN-LAS has UA (well....TED), F9, WN, and at the time US. Have you seen the volume of flights.....the fare wars.....the extreme competition....who cares if you drop DEN-LAS......it is SO not even a big deal. LAS is a hub....but a relatively small and not as important as others. DEN is a large hub for UA. DEN is a large (well only) hub for F9. LAS is the largest station for WN. It's not like abandoning PHL-CLT or something like that.

Well, actually, just before WN entered the market, DEN-LAS saw four daily round-trips on US Airways-operated-by-America West. And it's a very large market, even with all the competition, seeing over 2900 daily passengers. It's one of the top 5 markets from LAS -- but US gave up on it. But hey, America West does just as poorly on PHX-DEN; they only manage to grab 15% of this market with the same set of competitors as DEN-LAS, in spite of being the lowest-fare carrier in the market.

Southwest has stopped PHL-BDL. They will stop PHL-OAK, LAX. They are pulling out of PHX-CLE. They are decreasing service in a bunch of other markets with direct US competition. The last few route announcements or route shakeups left no real gains in US markets.....mostly reductions.

But just saying that they dropped PHL-BDL masks the reason they did it. WN managed to grab over 40% of the O&D market for 2006 on that route. The problem for WN was that the overall traffic didn't grow enough to make it profitable. It's a very short route, and they were beaten by the automobile. PVD-PHL and MHT-PHL both grew to over twice the size of BDL-PHL, and that's why they're both still flown.

As for PHL-OAK, PHL-LAX, and BWI-LAX, I suppose they decided that the aircraft and gates for those flights might be more useful for the upcoming SFO-LAX service, given their limited gate space at LAX. They are much better at short-haul service than long-haul.

The fact still remains that WN continues to kick America West's a$$ at their home hub of PHX. Take a look at the leading market share numbers in competitive routes from PHX:

ABQ: WN 83%
AUS: WN 59%
BWI: WN 57%
BOI: HP 42%
BUR: WN 77%
ORD/MDW: WN 29%
CMH: HP 28%
ELP: WN 83%
MCI: WN 59%
LAS: WN 76%
LAX: WN 63%
OAK: WN 73%
OKC: WN 68%
OMA: WN 49%
ONT: WN 81%
MCO: WN 29%
PHL: US 46%
PIT: US 41%
PDX: WN 29%
RNO: WN 49%
SMF: WN 63%
STL: WN 60%
SLC: WN 45%
SAT: WN 59%
SAN: WN 76%
SJC: WN 57%
SNA: WN 56%
GEG: HP 36%
TPA: HP 31%

The few markets where HP/US beats WN are hub-to-hub (with the glaring exception of LAS-PHX), former hub-to-hub (CMH), markets where WN has no non-stop service (GEG), and TPA. This hasn't led to pronouncements about how they can't make money at PHX due to low-cost competition. (And isn't the "new" US Airways supposed to be a low-cost carrier?)

It just seems that I have seen multiple times on this board recently that US pulled out of LAS-DEN and that it was some kind of utter embarrassment or failure or something like that. But all I can say is WHO CARES?!?!? Suck up your pride....at least US is able to do that for the sake of the company

So I take this to mean that your response will be "WHO CARES?!?!?" when the PHX hub is abandoned as WN continues to add real low-cost competition on the few profitable routes that America West continues to have there?

Ok, so they would pull out of PIT even though it is profitable as you all say, but then they would lie and tell everyone that it is unprofitable just so they can pull out of a money-making market. Because its something personal? Something tells me the board wouldn't be too happy about this

You know, I don't doubt that PIT is unprofitable. But the reason it's unprofitable is because you can't run a high-fare hub at PIT anymore, and America West doesn't know how to how to run it as a viable moderate-fare hub based on O&D. And they'd rather build up the high-fare operations at PHL and CLT.

But these markets just don't work for larger network carriers (remember AA used to have hubs in RDU & BNA, Midway tried before at RDU, UA tried to start a focus city not too long ago in SAT, etc., etc., etc.)

SAT wasn't a focus city for United; it was an at-risk point-to-point operation for Trans States with the United Express marketing identity. And it was stupid because there's no brand loyalty to United in Texas, unlike PIT where there remarkably remains plenty of brand loyalty to US. The AA hubs at RDU and BNA were sacrificed in part so that AA could build up its MIA operation after the demise of Eastern. Midway II grew too fast in a weakening economy with high-cost equipment.

But yeah, PIT will not work for America West-in-the-guise-of-US Airways. And I'm sure Southwest is quite happy to take up part of the slack.

 

[avion]

so back to the remark on this site that WN cut back service from BDL PHL because of the automobile.. pleasesssss.. they cut it because no one was flying them.. and you state that they are staying with PVDPHL and MHTPHL>.. uhhhhh WN is discontinuing 2 and yes 2 flights from PVD PHL market Nov 17 so dont tell me they are doing well in PVD PHL and PVD PIT... in the PVD PIT market US temporarily stopped PVD PIT service in June July due to lack of crews with Air Wisconsin.. they are now back.. WN has been operating one stop service from PVD PIT... their average patronage on that route has been 20-30 folks.. hmm 737 that holds 138 seats. and the flights stop in PHL enroute.. their early am PITPHLPVD flight runs at 35pct load factor.. US has returned the 50 seat a/c back nonstop PVDPIT with an average load factor of 81 pct... and yes the PHL flight crews just love WN operating the PHL PIT market because they have been given great opportunites to non rev and dead head... because they cant get on the crj e70 and 737 and a319 on US because US is FULL.... thanks WN the folks on a personal level.. just LUV you..

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

The following is a list of markets out of PIT with NS, Direct or 1 connection service:
ALB, ABQ, AUS, BWI, BHM, BOI, MHT, PVD, BUR, MDW, DAL, DFW(Code Share), DEN, ELP, FLL, RSW, HRL, BDL, HNL(Code Share), HOU, IND, JAN, JAX, MCI, LAS, LIT, ISP, LAX, ONT, SNA, SDF, MHT, OGG(Code Share), MAF, BNA, MSY, ORF, OAK, OMA, MCO, PHL, PDX, PVD, RDU, RNO, SMF, SLC, SAT, SAN, SFO, SJC, SEA, GEG, STL, TPA, TUS, TUL, PBI

Are these also served by LCC as N/S,direct or 1 connection service?

 

[sfb]

so back to the remark on this site that WN cut back service from BDL PHL because of the automobile.. pleasesssss.. they cut it because no one was flying them..

Very few people fly BDL-PHL period as an O&D route. Even with the lower fares brought on by Southwest, US Airways was getting under 90 O&D passengers per day, each way. Not even enough to fill 2 CRJ's.

and you state that they are staying with PVDPHL and MHTPHL>.. uhhhhh WN is discontinuing 2 and yes 2 flights from PVD PHL market Nov 17 so dont tell me they are doing well in PVD PHL and PVD PIT...

I don't think I made a single claim about PVD-PIT, but PVD-PHL only loses a single daily round-trip.

in the PVD PIT market US temporarily stopped PVD PIT service in June July due to lack of crews with Air Wisconsin.. they are now back.. WN has been operating one stop service from PVD PIT... their average patronage on that route has been 20-30 folks.. hmm 737 that holds 138 seats. and the flights stop in PHL enroute.. their early am PITPHLPVD flight runs at 35pct load factor.. US has returned the 50 seat a/c back nonstop PVDPIT with an average load factor of 81 pct...

Except...it wasn't US that decided to restore PVD-PIT, it was Trans States, who is operating the route at-risk, just with the US Airways Express branding.

and yes the PHL flight crews just love WN operating the PHL PIT market because they have been given great opportunites to non rev and dead head... because they cant get on the crj e70 and 737 and a319 on US because US is FULL....

The CRJ's and E170's have to run full. The trip cost for a CRJ or an E170 just isn't a whole lot lower than WN's trip cost for a 737, given that US's average express CASM for the first six months of the year was about 18.2 cents. WN's CASM was about 9 cents. Good luck getting that non-rev seat from PIT to PHL this Sunday afternoon, though; the last four flights of the day are already sold out.

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

I've heard ther have been some dust ups at WN between potential J/S's and F/A's who had bought passes to make sure they got a seat. PIT and FLL were mentioned.
Also something about WN sending the company a letter regarding behavior.
Any stories?

 

[orangeman]

WN is cutting service to PHL the 20 minute turn doesnt work there... duh... its talkes 45 minutes to turn around those piece of crap money losing CRJ s ... they are even cutting out nonstop PHL LAX thats big.. you cant make money on flights like that? US has won PHL and has all along.. WN is leaving with THEIR tails between their legs

Are you saying that Wn flys CRJ's? If not, WN still turns planes in 20 minutes (737's). It is ground stops and taxi lines that slow up takeoff times. US has lost considerable market share to WN in PHL AND THEIR yeild per ASM has suffered a great deal as well. Why do you think so many resources have been refocused "over the pond"? Give me a break while you guzzle your "Dougweiser"!

ps. remember OAK BWI or even Metrojet? :huh:

 

[orangeman]

I've heard ther have been some dust ups at WN between potential J/S's and F/A's who had bought passes to make sure they got a seat. PIT and FLL were mentioned.
Also something about WN sending the company a letter regarding behavior.
Any stories?

Are you speaking of US/LCC bad nonrev behavior? The whole "bought passes to make sure they got a seat" is confusing as they are space available after most every other nonrev. Unless they bought a ticket as a revenue customer ofcourse. In the past I have witnessed "legacy" carrier's and self proclaimed "real airline" employees acting privledged and condecseding towards gate agents and myself on the A/C. It is a shame. Perhaps Karma has intervened because I am enjoying better wages and flexiblity/job security now. Yes, we are in a very fluid industry and I am NOT Gloating! I am just thankful and fortunate as of now.

WE airline employees should extend every courtesy to each other, let Mgmt. screw each other!

ps. Maybe you were speaking of the Reciprocal J/S agreement now open to F/A's as well? I can tell you that I've used this with 3 other airlines and not all of their agents were aware. I carried it with me; and yes I have bought a "pass" as it put me ahead of J/S fliers in the cabin. Oh the drama!

Regardless; I would love to hear more as to what the alleged "dust ups" may or might have been. I am not always treated well as a nonrev and or J/S

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

Are you speaking of US/LCC bad nonrev behavior? The whole "bought passes to make sure they got a seat" is confusing as they are space available after most every other nonrev. Unless they bought a ticket as a revenue customer ofcourse. In the past I have witnessed "legacy" carrier's and self proclaimed "real airline" employees acting privledged and condecseding towards gate agents and myself on the A/C. It is a shame. Perhaps Karma has intervened because I am enjoying better wages and flexiblity/job security now. Yes, we are in a very fluid industry and I am NOT Gloating! I am just thankful and fortunate as of now.

WE airline employees should extend every courtesy to each other, let Mgmt. screw each other!

ps. Maybe you were speaking of the Reciprocal J/S agreement now open to F/A's as well? I can tell you that I've used this with 3 other airlines and not all of their agents were aware. I carried it with me; and yes I have bought a "pass" as it put me ahead of J/S fliers in the cabin. Oh the drama!

Regardless; I would love to hear more as to what the alleged "dust ups" may or might have been. I am not always treated well as a nonrev and or J/S

To clarify: The nonrevs who bought a pass apparently travel before the J/S riders leapfrogging any seniority issues.

 

[Jimmy Neutron]

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/b...izbuzz0922.html

Ouch

The America West-US Airways merger turns 2 next week, but at least one frequent flier won't be sending a card.

In an open letter on the US Airways forum at FlyerTalk.com last week, the traveler said he is done flying on the Tempe-based airline because he feels he is no longer wanted or needed.

"I've been sitting back and watching everything since the start of the merger. The entire process has become the equivalent to death by a thousand paper cuts. Each change by itself isn't an issue, but all together it is a deadly combination."

The subject line on the message: Goodbye, farewell, amen."

Just Another Happy EX-CUSTOMER

 

[avion]

like i have said... WN will NEVER admit DEFEAT... PHL is out of the question for WN and believe me as you will not admit that it was the wrong play for them to go there.. the 20 minute turn does not work in PHL... yeah turn in 20 mintues and wait 120 mintues for take off and arrival and that could be because of too much clear sky and severe clear... ive said as others do agree working with them you traveling folks live in AMERICA.. you have choices in everything .. when someone screws you over the first time shame on them if they screw you over the second time shame on ME... remember with all the problems US has we have the LARGEST PROFIT MARGIN OF ALL THE OTHER AIRLINES IN THIS COUNTRY AND 45pct OF OUR COMPETITION COMES FROM SOUTHWEST.... THANK YOU SOUTHWEST FOR CONTINUING TO RAISE FARES THE EMPLOYEES OF US >>>> LUV>>>>> YOU>>>>>