Somber Report

[High Iron]

Good god almighty. You guys cant see the forrest for the trees. Yes the trees are important but the forrest is MORE important now.

If you think management did all these horrible incompetent things you are probably right. You ought to be looking for other work right now. I sure would be if I were a USAir employee.

Do you think they are faking the dire straits? Do you want to be on the streets with thousands of other folks competing for the same jobs? Go find another job voluntarily now or later. But for now keep this company afloat. Forget the trees, save the forrest, the deal with the trees on your own time and on your own terms.

Whatever Siegel did or whatever this that the other A320 this that 70 seaters bla bla bla, if it's that bad go find another job on your own terms. But have sympathy for all the other folks - the passengers and employees who coast along without knowledge or understanding and are going to be caught off guard and unprepared and keep this place afloat.

Even if they ARE lying and faking

[post="168845"][/post]​

Such a tone of desperation...and you've got no skin in the game.

Do you think they are faking the dire straits?

Not necessarily, but it is their own doing through their actions or inactions and groupthink.

Do you want to be on the streets with thousands of other folks competing for the same jobs?

What sort of question is that? You're implying that rolling over yet again ( or perhaps committing hari-kari ) for the sultans of squander it'll be different this time around? Most of us will be on the streets anyway.

Go find another job voluntarily now or later

Later.

But for now keep this company afloat

That's right, stay down below deck, keep shoveling the coal into the boilers of this sinking ship even though you've got slim to none chances of making it topside for an escape...gotta keep the upper crust on the upper decks comfy for the rescue.

Fall on my sword to benefit others who've hastened ( or clearly wish so ) my demise??!! No.

Forget the trees, save the forrest, the deal with the trees on your own time and on your own terms

Bad anology, doesn't really apply. Again, you assume just minor setbacks for those involved, either by ingnorance or by sophistry. But: I'll humor you with a little ditty that highlights the importance of the small teeth in the big cogs:

- For want of a nail, the shoe was lost

- For want of a shoe, the horse was lost

- For want of a horse, the rider was lost

- From want of a rider, the battle was lost

 

[Heinrich]

GIVE ME A BREAK! Like the sorry PM I received the other day taking me to task for helping along the demise of this airline with my posts, your post is so flawed it's twisted. So what would you have, a bunch of Pollyanna fruit loops posting on here ignoring the realities U faces?

We simple accept the way things are, understand that, ACCEPT it and whatever happens, happens which for some strange reason is hard for some people to fathom!

[post="168847"][/post]​

Thanks, all your pride and "beast of the jungle" and macho-man shine through your posts too. No one will get the better of you! NO ONE!!

 

[MrAeroMan]

Hey, I am just curious, It was tossed out by 700UW, and I would love to see where he came up with that figure.

It just does not sound logical, that you could get rid of 60% of your mechanics, while at the same time having a substantial increase in mainline a/c utilization (and proposing growth as well).

His (700UW's) quote was:

I am just a big fan of seeing such large figures backed up by something a little more solid than the opinion of 700UW.

But then again, Who really knows whatever the current deal Management might be willing to reach with the IAM, certainily not the IAM (nor 700UW).

Without face to face negotiation between the IAM and company, NO ONE will ever know "what could have been"... <_<

[post="168840"][/post]​

Great point and one that 700 nor any of his sidekicks can answer. If the IAM won't talk to the company how do they know what they want from the IAM. Seems 700 has bent over again and pulled a number from that unsunshined place he's famous for. It sure smells like he did anyway.

 

[Dont call me Shirley]

A wonderful post from flyertalk, by loyal customer (l4pi):

Ok let’s all step back here and take a deep breath.

I have believed for a long time that the employees of US (and other airlines) have been compensated at a level that was not sustainable in the long term. The day of reckoning has arrived and it is going to be painful for all involved, including us the customers.

But lets step back and consider what it will be like to walk in the shoes on the employees. My favorite gate agent at GSO has been with this company and PI before it for over 25 years. He and the others there are as good as any in the system and with their many years of experience can get me out of just about any jam I find myself in. Do I really want some one with six months experience handling my issues when they arise? NO

Did these individuals who invested their lives and careers ever envision the day when they would take a 40% decrease in pay and go back 15 years in earning ability? NO.

Is it THEIR fault? NO

Have any of you taken this kind of pay cut and tried to survive on it? I can tell you my income is based upon how well my company performs and I took a 25% decrease in income last year and it was tough to swallow. And I make a heck of a lot more than $40,000 a year. Try making the house payment, car payment, etc after going from 40k a year to 27k a year. Remember now that they have invested their lives into this company.

I know the world has changed and the fact is all of this is going to happen. This is what happens in a free market. But please don’t come down on the employees for feeling bitter about what has happened. They have earned the right to be bitter and angry. They are the best in the business because they care and they justifiably feel betrayed. This company had been mis managed for years at the top and the only reason it has survived is because of the employee who has cared

Let’s cut them a little slack, OK?

 

[cavalier]

Great point and one that 700 nor any of his sidekicks can answer. If the IAM won't talk to the company how do they know what they want from the IAM. Seems 700 has bent over again and pulled a number from that unsunshined place he's famous for. It sure smells like he did anyway.

[post="168853"][/post]​

Doesn't take a genius.

Just look at what they asked for the last two times, apply it to the third concession and whammo, the answer....just exactly what 700 has been saying.

You need to accept what lies ahead, nothing.

 

[MrAeroMan]

Doesn't take a genius.

Just look at what they asked for the last two times, apply it to the third concession and whammo, the answer....just exactly what 700 has been saying.

You need to accept what lies ahead, nothing.

[post="168855"][/post]​

Apparently it doesn't take a genius to come up with these figures you and your cronies come up with. I still say if you haven't met with them then you have no idea what they want so don't go off saying you know when you don't.
It wasn't long ago you said you were heading to a non-union environment to go to work. What happened Cav? Did they read some of your posts you so proudly display all over the hanger and have second thoughts?

 

[cavalier]

Apparently it doesn't take a genius to come up with these figures you and your cronies come up with. I still say if you haven't met with them then you have no idea what they want so don't go off saying you know when you don't.
It wasn't long ago you said you were heading to a non-union environment to go to work. What happened Cav? Did they read some of your posts you so proudly display all over the hanger and have second thoughts?

[post="168857"][/post]​

What makes you think I am still even there?

 

[cavalier]

Apparently it doesn't take a genius to come up with these figures you and your cronies come up with. I still say if you haven't met with them then you have no idea what they want so don't go off saying you know when you don't.
It wasn't long ago you said you were heading to a non-union environment to go to work. What happened Cav? Did they read some of your posts you so proudly display all over the hanger and have second thoughts?

[post="168857"][/post]​

MrAeroMan MrAeroMan MrAeroMan

Come out come out wherever you are.....what's the matter, fear got your butt?

Do you feel better trying to attack me, the poster who refuses to bent one more inch for a management team that deserves hell fire?

I think you need to get a grip, take a deep breathe and move on with your life, it will extent it.

 

[700UW]

The company wants to farmout all heavy maintenance, GSE, Plant Mtc and shops.

WN has 400 airplanes and 1,265 mechanics and they farmout 72% of their maintenance. Do the math. HP farms out all heavy mtc.

The 2,009 is the low end of layoff, 2,500 high end including all areas of mtc. Apply the WN figure and you end up with 800 line mechanics to service 279 planes.

And to Rico and Aeroman, you do not know who I am or what information I am privy too. Like I said I was with Mr Roach all day Thursday and the acting DL 142 President. Like I have said, I am on the inside, you are all on the outside.

The IAM is planning on meeting with the company one time to get the proposal and show the membership, no negotiations. Just look at what they offered the CWA for a comparison.

The dollar amounts from each group in the IAM was in the Pittsburgh Post Gazette several months back. For example, $41 million from utility is all of them gone.

And Rico, the IAM is the largest membership out of any union in the airline industry, if 5,000 US Mechanic and Related cease to exist there still is over 100,000 IAM Members in the Airline Industry.

So why don't you take the time and educate yourself.

 

[USA320Pilot]

How does anybody know that "the company wants to farmout all heavy maintenance, GSE, Plant Mtc and shops" if there have been no negotiations and the IAM has refused to meet with management?

Every major union is negotiating with the company, but the IAM who said they could not meet until after August 31. If the company wins the A320 heavy maintenance award, then the IAM will be at a terrible disadvantage.

The company has offered to have the IAM participate in the new business plan, but up to this point they have refused. Therefore, the company has no choice but to make the IAM and its supporters irrelevant.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

 

[Phoenix]

How does anybody know that "the company wants to farmout all heavy maintenance, GSE, Plant Mtc and shops" if there have been no negotiations and the IAM has refused to meet with management?

Every major union is negotiating with the company, but the IAM who said they could not meet until after August 31. If the company wins the A320 heavy maintenance award, then the IAM will be at a terrible disadvantage.

The company has offered to have the IAM participate in the new business plan, but up to this point they have refused. Therefore, the company has no choice but to make the IAM and its supporters irrelevant.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

[post="168900"][/post]​

Unions are like fast women. The Pilot Union is still fast, has the kids to prove it, and will have more. The IAM used to be fast too (and has a few kids to prove it as well) but now they have decided to go the staight and narrow and are not "particpating".

The free milk has ended. Must try new approach to avoid necessity of cow purchase.

 

[cavalier]

How does anybody know that "the company wants to farmout all heavy maintenance, GSE, Plant Mtc and shops" if there have been no negotiations and the IAM has refused to meet with management?



USA320Pilot

[post="168900"][/post]​

JESUS CAPTAIN! Read your own posts! You already said it will be in their PAINFUL clause if we don't bend over, AGAIN. They will farm out of maintenance as per you own posts, now you are on here asking how do we know, hell, you told us with that INSIDE information source you have. You and others want us to bend over and if we refuse then WE and NOT management is accused of causing U's demise. You also said they DON'T need us captain, ok fine, then go away and quit bugging us about bending over, they don't need us as per your very own posts.

Get it thru your head captain, until the bus issue is resolved, there will be NO talks about concessions on the IAM’s part.

What are you going to do after U is gone and you have nothing to write about captain? Will you survive in that strange land. I think you should take stock because you may end up there very soon. Do I like this? Matter fact, I don’t care one way or the other anymore.

 

[700UW]

How does anybody know that "the company wants to farmout all heavy maintenance, GSE, Plant Mtc and shops" if there have been no negotiations and the IAM has refused to meet with management?

The company has offered to have the IAM participate in the new business plan, but up to this point they have refused. Therefore, the company has no choice but to make the IAM and its supporters irrelevant.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

[post="168900"][/post]​

You just opened up a can of worms. You have posted so many "inside" information as you have said, and now you have the audacity to question someone who my non-friend is in the loop of what is going on with the IAM, do you work hand in hand with the Leadership of the IAM?

I could post for days your secret Cockpit Chronicles, heck this week alone you have posted things and failed to name any sources.

You are the pot calling the kettle black.

Would you like to make a wager on what the company's proposal to the IAM mechanic and related contains?

We can bet your house against mine!

 

[USA320Pilot]

The company has publicly offered the IAM to participate in the new business plan and to cost effectively conduct overhaul in-house, but up to this point the IAM has refused to enter into discussions. Therefore, the company has no option but to implement "painful" plans, outsource maintenance, and make the IAM irrelevant to the process to compete in today's new marketplace.

I certainly do not like what is happening and we have the best mechanics and related in the business, but the IAM has given the company no other options.

In fact, in a press release on October 21, 2004 the company said "it is willing to work with the IAM to explore ways to bring future Airbus heavy maintenance work in-house."

See Story

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

 

[700UW]

The company has publicly offered the IAM to participate in the new business plan and to cost effectively conduct overhaul in-house, but up to this point the IAM has refused to enter into discussions. Therefore, the company has no option but to implement "painful" plans, outsource maintenance, and make the IAM irrelevant to the process to compete in today's new marketplace.

I certainly do not like what is happening and we have the best mechanics and related in the business, but the IAM has given the company no other options.

In fact, in a press release on October 21, 2004 the company said "it is willing to work with the IAM to explore ways to bring future Airbus heavy maintenance work in-house."

See Story

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

[post="168915"][/post]​

And you believe the company?

Even the City of PIT has called US liars!

I hate to tell you this but October 21, 2004 has not happened.

Didn't Dave tell you to take two rounds of concessions to save your pension?

Where is your Defined Benefit plan now?

P.T. Barnum was 100% right, did he know you?

Here is a post from Chris Chiames:

Posted on: Jan 5 2003, 04:39 PM
Newbie
Group: Founders Club
Posts: 9
Joined: 3-January 03
Member No.: 1,559

PITguy, I apologize for the delay. I haven't been online and just saw your note.

We are not going to outsource heavy maintenance in PIT or elsewhere. We never even proposed it. (Unlike UA which has proposed the outsourcing of heavy maintenance.)

We will pay all furlough pay as provided for in the contract.

We have no further plans to lay off more mechanics beyond what is published. With the new commitment to operate 279 a/c, we will need just about all the mechanics on the property to perform the maintenance we have scheduled, since our fleet plan anticipated retiring some planes that we will now be flying.

Finally, we are not trying to vendor maintenance with either Boeing or Airbus.

Chris Chiames
Forum: US Airways · Post Preview: #36648 · Replies: 134 · Views: 8,252