Somber Report
- Thread starter USA320Pilot
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No more after this, that was my point. And that is what to feel good about.
No Airline Mechanics at any major Airline will be represented by IAM if they allow US to fall.
IMO the failure of US, and IAM's unwilingness to have even discussed the situation with the company (and possibly have done something to help save some of their jobs - a union's most important responsibility), will reflect poorly upon any future chance of IAM representing any other mechanic groups (such as DAL for example)
With the legacy carriers, it has always been the leverage of the mechanics that has been the true power base for IAM. Although other working groups will still be IAM represented, they will have nowhere near the same amount of negotiating power as they did tied to the mechanics.
nuff said.
- Banned
- #19
hammerhead said:
Learn the facts!
And if you knew anything about the EAL demise it's failure rest clearly on Frank Lorenzo's shoulders, and ALL unions at EAL went on strike, not just the IAM. Frank Lorenzo was barred from EAL by the bankruptcy court and subsequently banned from the airline industry.
- Banned
- #20
Rico said:
I am glad to see your track record is still zero.
Fleet service at US has nothing to do with Mechanic and Related, differant contract, differant District Lodge, differant general chairs.
Same at UA, NW and WN. At WN their res and ticket agents are highest paid in the industry, their mechanics were IBT now AMFA so they have nothing to do with the IAM represented agents. So if they have no negotiating power, how did they achieve such high wages? The TWU represents the ramp at WN, highest paid in the industry, how did they achieve that since the mechanics are AMFA and as you stated they ramp workers have no power?
Mechanic and Related have zero to do with their contracts so your statement is absurd.
Here's your response 700,
I did not mention you by name, thus had no need before to drop down to your personal level, but you seem confused, so I will explain the new reality for IAM to you I have not just the nerve, I have the right to my opinion, even and especially in regards to the IAM.
Because I too have given my share, before, and right up to now..., One of my stripes and about 50% of my pay to fly something twice as fast, with twice as many seats, going twice as far.
BUT that was my choice.
In return the comapny gave me training in what promses to be one of the most popular aircaft models in the coming futue. Hopefully I can make something of that here into the years to come. But if not, I am one of only around 300 pilots in the US that know how to fly the EMB-170/190's.
Give now to get later, that is the name of the game. ALPA, CWA, TWU, AFA, all still in that game trying to save this company in hope of returns later. IAM, well they are still in the locker room.
YOU, 700, felt no need to address my points either, in that this is the last hurrah for IAM in the major airlines. An IAM Fleet service work group by itself has nowhere near the negotiating leverage that they do when tied in with the mechanics. So the point IS that IAM will NO LONGER be able to "sink another ship" because IAM will no longer matter to such a degree IF they allow US to go under.
Airline workgroups exert different amounts of negotiating leverage in the following order:
1. Pilots
2. Mechanics
3. Dispatchers
4. Flight Attendants
5. Fleet Service.
The reason has nothing to do with who works more, it all comes down to how easily you are replaced. Pilots by far take the longest, followed not too far by mechanics and so on. THUS the great appeal about AMFA, in which Mechanics are able to get a better deal for themselves, without worrying about improving or MAINTAINING the lifestyle of other non-mechanic workgroups...
So like I said, good luck ever talking another mechanic group at a major airline to sign on for what IAM offers...
Oh, and good luck 700uw, trying to make more than I do in the future if we all cannot save this place.
He who laughs last, laughs loudest.
I did not mention you by name, thus had no need before to drop down to your personal level, but you seem confused, so I will explain the new reality for IAM to you I have not just the nerve, I have the right to my opinion, even and especially in regards to the IAM.
Because I too have given my share, before, and right up to now..., One of my stripes and about 50% of my pay to fly something twice as fast, with twice as many seats, going twice as far.
BUT that was my choice.
In return the comapny gave me training in what promses to be one of the most popular aircaft models in the coming futue. Hopefully I can make something of that here into the years to come. But if not, I am one of only around 300 pilots in the US that know how to fly the EMB-170/190's.
Give now to get later, that is the name of the game. ALPA, CWA, TWU, AFA, all still in that game trying to save this company in hope of returns later. IAM, well they are still in the locker room.
YOU, 700, felt no need to address my points either, in that this is the last hurrah for IAM in the major airlines. An IAM Fleet service work group by itself has nowhere near the negotiating leverage that they do when tied in with the mechanics. So the point IS that IAM will NO LONGER be able to "sink another ship" because IAM will no longer matter to such a degree IF they allow US to go under.
Airline workgroups exert different amounts of negotiating leverage in the following order:
1. Pilots
2. Mechanics
3. Dispatchers
4. Flight Attendants
5. Fleet Service.
The reason has nothing to do with who works more, it all comes down to how easily you are replaced. Pilots by far take the longest, followed not too far by mechanics and so on. THUS the great appeal about AMFA, in which Mechanics are able to get a better deal for themselves, without worrying about improving or MAINTAINING the lifestyle of other non-mechanic workgroups...
So like I said, good luck ever talking another mechanic group at a major airline to sign on for what IAM offers...
Oh, and good luck 700uw, trying to make more than I do in the future if we all cannot save this place.
He who laughs last, laughs loudest.
rico- its common knowledge what U is going for as far as IAM is concerned...can't you just accept the fact that what they want in negotiation is what they will ask for with or without 1113?Rico said:Here's your response 700,
I did not mention you by name, thus had no need to drop down to your personal level. But I have not just the nerve, I have the right to my opinion, even and especially in regards to the IAM.
I have given my share, before, and right up to now..., One of my stripes and about 50% of my pay to fly something twice as fast, with twice as many seats, going twice as far.
BUT that was my choice.
In rewturn the comapny gave me training in what promses to be one of the most popular aircaft models in the coming futue. Hopefully I can make something of that here into the years to come. But if not, I am one of only around 300 pilots in the US that know how to fly the EMB-170/190's.
Give now to get later, that is the name of the game. ALPA, CWA, TWU, AFA, all still in that game trying to save this company in hope of returns later. IAM, well they are still in the locker room.
YOU, 700, felt no need to address my points either, in that this is the last hurrah for IAM in the major airlines. An IAM Fleet service work group by itself has nowhere near the negotiating leverage that they do when tied in with the mechanics. So the point IS that IAM will NO LONGER be able to "sink another ship" because IAM will no longer matter to such a degree IF they allow US to go under.
Airline workgroups exert different amounts of negotiating leverage in the following order:
1. Pilots
2. Mechanics
3. Dispatchers
4. Flight Attendants
5. Fleet Service.
The reason has nothing to do with who works more, it all comes down to how easily you are replaced. Pilots by far take the longest, followed not too far by mechanics and so on. THUS the great appeal about AMFA, in which Mechanics are able to get a better deal for themselves, without worrying about improving or MAINTAINING the lifestyle of other non-mechanic workgroups...
So like I said, good luck ever talking another mechanic group at a major airline to sign on for what IAM offers...
Oh, and good luck 700uw, trying to make more than I do in the future if we all cannot save this place.
He who laughs last, laughs loudest.
[post="168734"][/post]
why the heck would you attempt to negotiate when you know what the outcome is going to be with or without your cooperation?
so please spare us and try and view it from our perspective. it is a very bad situation for all involved.period.
Mmmm, You sure that is what the company told the IAM in the their negotiations...?
Oh, wait, they were unable to tell IAM anything, were they...
Why is that...?
Oh yeah, IAM never even tried to listen. :blink:
IF Airways has to go into BK, they will get rid of Fleet Service and make the Mechanics give FAR MORE than they would have to otherwise. The increased costs and losses caused by BK will force this.
But then, you will never really know, will you...?
Because the IAM never even tried to listen.
Oh well, that is a mistake IAM will no longer be able to make if US Airways cannot survive. (At least, it will no longer matter what IAM does anymore, will it...?)
Oh, wait, they were unable to tell IAM anything, were they...
Why is that...?
Oh yeah, IAM never even tried to listen. :blink:
IF Airways has to go into BK, they will get rid of Fleet Service and make the Mechanics give FAR MORE than they would have to otherwise. The increased costs and losses caused by BK will force this.
But then, you will never really know, will you...?
Because the IAM never even tried to listen.
Oh well, that is a mistake IAM will no longer be able to make if US Airways cannot survive. (At least, it will no longer matter what IAM does anymore, will it...?)
- Banned
- #27
Rico,
Once again you ignore the facts. The IAM has never sank a ship. Go do the research and find out what really happened at Eastern, ask anyone who worked there.
See you ignore the fact that the bankruptcy court took EA away from Lorenzo and the DOJ and DOT has banned him from ever being involved with an airline again.
And you ignored the facts about WN and the IAM.
You ignored the facts that my paycuts with the others bought your brazilian barbie jet you fly and IAM represented mechanics fix it on a constant basis, maybe they should call a ford 170, fix or repair daily.
Once again you ignore the facts. The IAM has never sank a ship. Go do the research and find out what really happened at Eastern, ask anyone who worked there.
See you ignore the fact that the bankruptcy court took EA away from Lorenzo and the DOJ and DOT has banned him from ever being involved with an airline again.
And you ignored the facts about WN and the IAM.
You ignored the facts that my paycuts with the others bought your brazilian barbie jet you fly and IAM represented mechanics fix it on a constant basis, maybe they should call a ford 170, fix or repair daily.
- Banned
- #28
Rico said:Mmmm, You sure that is what the company told the IAM in the their negotiations...?
Oh, wait, they were unable to tell IAM anything, were they...
Why is that...?
Oh yeah, IAM never even tried to listen. :blink:
IF Airways has to go into BK, they will get rid of Fleet Service and make the Mechanics give FAR MORE than they would have to otherwise. The increased costs and losses caused by BK will force this.
But then, you will never really know, will you...?
Because the IAM never even tried to listen.
Oh well, that is a mistake IAM will no longer be able to make if US Airways cannot survive. (At least, it will no longer matter what IAM does anymore, will it...?)
[post="168747"][/post]
The IAM has met with the company and tried to work things out only to go on deaf ears.
Once again you are talking about things you have no idea about.
The company wants to eliminate maintenance anyhow.
Rico said "Give now to get later, that is the name of the game."
Appearently you are NOT PAYING ATTENTION to the proposals they have given to the CWA. OH i forget YOU ARE ONLY REFERENCING THE ALPA PROPOSALS like LAST TIME WHEN ALPA RECIEVED TWENTY (20%) percent of the COMPANYS STOCK!!!!!!!!!
Appearently you are NOT PAYING ATTENTION to the proposals they have given to the CWA. OH i forget YOU ARE ONLY REFERENCING THE ALPA PROPOSALS like LAST TIME WHEN ALPA RECIEVED TWENTY (20%) percent of the COMPANYS STOCK!!!!!!!!!
"Sigh"
Read the book "Hard Landings", very critical of Lorenzo, but just as critical of the IAM in the Eastern demise.
So...?
Also reread my posts, I was pointing out that IAM will no longer represent MAJOR AIRLINE MECHANICS Without the mechanics supplying all of their substantial leverage to the IAM, then IAM is no longer as powerful a force as then had been in the past...
And yes, I have spoken to ex-EAL people, all of whom (pilots and Mechs) place the blame upon both Lorenzo and the IAM. Would you like me to reprint the post of the Ex EAL pilot that recommends to the DAL pilots to do anything possible to remain out of bankruptcy....?
But, Lorenzo is already out of the business, I am just pointing out that this is the IAM's "last hurrah" when it comes to Airlines.
But you refuse to talk about that, as you know I am right on that point. 700UW brings up old concessions, as if the IAM was the only one to give beforehand. Sorry pal, we all gave, and since I now make less than you, guess which one of the two of us gave more "so I could fly the E170's".
Point is, right now, in crunch time, in the last few weeks of which something can be done, the IAM refuses to even just talk. So, all of you IAM members, will NEVER really know what the company might have been able to offer you to try and come to a mutual deal. AND you sure will never get to vote on a thing.
ALL you will get is what the BK judge lays upon you, IF you still have a job.
IMHO I like having a choice, even if the choices are difficult, I like knowing what options exist, I prefer to have my union's leadership at least be open to possibilities rather than just pretending they have no responsibility to save their member's jobs.
Like I said, this is just the sort of thing that will make it difficult for IAM to ever again get a foothold with any other Airline Mechanics when AMFA is a far better choice for their careers.
Peace B)
Read the book "Hard Landings", very critical of Lorenzo, but just as critical of the IAM in the Eastern demise.
So...?
Also reread my posts, I was pointing out that IAM will no longer represent MAJOR AIRLINE MECHANICS Without the mechanics supplying all of their substantial leverage to the IAM, then IAM is no longer as powerful a force as then had been in the past...
And yes, I have spoken to ex-EAL people, all of whom (pilots and Mechs) place the blame upon both Lorenzo and the IAM. Would you like me to reprint the post of the Ex EAL pilot that recommends to the DAL pilots to do anything possible to remain out of bankruptcy....?
But, Lorenzo is already out of the business, I am just pointing out that this is the IAM's "last hurrah" when it comes to Airlines.
But you refuse to talk about that, as you know I am right on that point. 700UW brings up old concessions, as if the IAM was the only one to give beforehand. Sorry pal, we all gave, and since I now make less than you, guess which one of the two of us gave more "so I could fly the E170's".
Point is, right now, in crunch time, in the last few weeks of which something can be done, the IAM refuses to even just talk. So, all of you IAM members, will NEVER really know what the company might have been able to offer you to try and come to a mutual deal. AND you sure will never get to vote on a thing.
ALL you will get is what the BK judge lays upon you, IF you still have a job.
IMHO I like having a choice, even if the choices are difficult, I like knowing what options exist, I prefer to have my union's leadership at least be open to possibilities rather than just pretending they have no responsibility to save their member's jobs.
Like I said, this is just the sort of thing that will make it difficult for IAM to ever again get a foothold with any other Airline Mechanics when AMFA is a far better choice for their careers.
Peace B)
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