Seniority Question

[jimntx]

If no union recieves a majority you get decertified and have no union and become a employee at will with the company to do as they please with you. In a two party election.

700 (may I call you 700?), that's what I had been told; however, I think UFAU_Flyboy is right. According to 29CFR1206.1, in a 3-way (or more) race for representation, if none of the options (no representation could be an option on the ballot) receives a majority, a runoff between the top 2 vote-getters is held provided that one of the top two vote-getters requests a runoff within 10 days of the initial vote count. Interestingly, the reg specifically prohibits a write-in space on the run-off ballot--probably to keep mischief-makers from muddying the waters further.

Otherwise, I think you would be right, the employees lose all representation.

UFAU_Flyboy, thanks for the reference link. I'm going to pass it on to some of my compatriots at AA who are spreading the word that a representation election might result in no representation at all.

 

[700UW]

Yes he is correct, it happend between the IAM, IBT and USWA during the Fleet Service Election at US Airways, where the IAM and USWA had a runoff, but in a two way if you don't get the 50%+1 you are decertified.

 

[jimntx]

Yes he is correct, it happend between the IAM, IBT and USWA during the Fleet Service Election at US Airways, where the IAM and USWA had a runoff, but in a two way if you don't get the 50%+1 you are decertified.

But in a two-way, the only way that one would not get a majority would be in the case of a tie. Highly unlikely.

The majority is not determined from the total union membership, it is determined from the total number of votes cast. So apathetic unions like APFA where half the total membership didn't even vote in the last election still have a chance.

 

[delldude]

cash in your 25 year seniority at 5/1 ratio and we merge or whatever....you think for an instant you won't get everything a 5 year emp.has at that airline??and lose everything you have here except maybe retirement??
think carefully...why is this suddenly an issue....i think i know.....

 

[firstamendment]

Several folks were hired pre-911 who were only 19 years of age. I could never figure out how this could be, seeing that we sell alcohol on the planes.

I miss the twinks. They were young, enthusiastic, and yummy to look at. These days it's the same tired story. God, I need to get layed. :blink:

 

[ktflyhome]

LOL....I'm with ya, First Amendment. Yeehaw!!!!!

 

[usairways_vote_NO]

Yes he is correct, it happend between the IAM, IBT and USWA during the Fleet Service Election at US Airways, where the IAM and USWA had a runoff, but in a two way if you don't get the 50%+1 you are decertified.

50% + 1 of what? votes cast or of eligible voters

 

[Light Years]

ooooooooooo

 

[jimntx]

50% + 1 of what? votes cast or of eligible voters

I stand corrected on my post. According to a long-time union activist and rep that I know, you have to have 50%+1 of the MEMBERSHIP voting or the union is decertified. If less than 50% of the membership votes, the law assumes that the majority want no union.

If over 50% of the membership votes, then the union getting the majority of votes cast--either 1st ballot or runoff--is certified as the representative

 

[700UW]

It is 50% +1 of all ELIGIBLE VOTERS, not members who vote.

 

[wench]

First Amend,

 

[UFAU_FlyBoy]

cash in your 25 year seniority at 5/1 ratio and we merge or whatever....you think for an instant you won't get everything a 5 year emp.has at that airline??and lose everything you have here except maybe retirement??
think carefully...why is this suddenly an issue....i think i know.....

DellDude,
The idea of the 1:5 slotting is not to reduce anyone's seniority to 1/5. It's actually kinda the opposite. The idea is that carrier B has 5 times the employees carrier A has. Employees are slotted in order from their respective seniority lists BBBBBA BBBBBA BBBBBA... If you're an A, look how many B's you fly past up the list. If you were in the top 10% before the merger, you should generally end up in the top 10% of the merged list. Same for the bottom 5%, smack-dab in the middle, etc. This theory relies loosely upon the idea that with each F/A comes one F/A's-worth of flying and the combined list is now competing for a combined pool (of flying or vacation or pass-ride seats or whatever). There are natural variations in this from uneven hiring at each carrier, different distributions of types of flying, uneven population distribution (domiciles), etc. The straight "ratio slotting" evens out some of the bubbles while making administration of the merged list administratively simpler. No plan is completely fair. Some people from each carrier lose a little relative seniority and some from each carrier gain a little relative seniority. The idea, of course, is to not let recognizing the seniority of one F/A unduly discount the seniority of another. (Notice I said 'unduly,' and not 'unfairly' because, let's face it, a merger isn't often designed to be fair to the front line workers.)

 

[StewGuy86]

Okay, so I've been on a voluntary furlough for the last year and a half and I'm a bit out of touch with what's going on back in the always-crazy world of airlines. But fairly soon, I'm going to have to make a decision as to whether or not I'm coming back to flying in December, so I've started "re-educating" myself and checking out some of the topics on these boards. Imagine my surprise to see this thread and read that there's still talk out there about some sort of possible combination of US and UA. I'm just curious....what is this based on? I mean, the way I understand it, neither of these airlines seems to have the ability to pay for gas....much less the purchase of the other, whether in whole or in part. I mean, UA is still in bankruptcy and having problems securing a govt. loan and US, a mere ghost of its former self, is looking like it's headed BACK into bankruptcy for the second time in 2 years.

Is there something going on I should know about? I'd appreciate all the edumacation any of you could provide. I always love to hear juicy rumors and gossip (I'm a F/A, after all )

StewGuy86

 

[UFAU_FlyBoy]

StewGuy86,
It's based on idle, raw speculation. The two carriers have long pined for a combined route network, and with all the uncertainty in the industry and at the two carriers right now, we're all trying to look brainy like we see something coming. There's nothing in the news. No buzz on Wall Street, nothing from either company's management. There is, however, lingering opinion from the last merger go 'round that the big wigs might still find this an attractive option, even in BK. At UAL, afa-CWA and the contending UFAU both quietly believe that the possibility exists, however remote it may be. Hey, if both companies have to reorganize anyway, why not reorganize together. The people on this thread are just very, very intelligent and getting all this worked out before the rest of the world even has a clue what's going on. You can join our brain trust, too, but you have to pay each of us $5. We all had to pay, so now you do. Don't ask anyone else if this is true, just pay now.

And, it is widely known that a combination of UAL and U would create the best-looking workforce in the industry, which is why we're also talking about twinks.

 

[Light Years]

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