Seniority integration

[blue collar]

Seriously? Thread is titled "Seniority Integration" is it not? 
The questions I asked were not mechanic specific,nevermind the fact fleet will be voting on this dues harvesting alliance as well.

Don't let the actions of a few taint all of us. Some posters here think every thread is about only MX- and a lot of them are, but this isn't one of them. We don't all think we're gods.

 

[700UW]

Blue, that's good to read. People can have a civil discussion on here, but too many will attack, insult or down someone who is or was another classification when they don't agree with them. But to read your post was refreshing, just as how you and I had a discussion yesterday and we didn't agree on everything but it was civil.

 

[swamt]

Why do you keep using the TWA example? I never mentioned it- I didn't hear anyone else mention that's how they wanted it. No need to keep rehashing it, or accuse bob of wanting a staple job.
You did clear up the question of how the integration would be handled. The SS # only applies to integration of the two lists- not the seniority on their relative list. So to answer all of the AA questions- your SS number will only be used to determine if you are ahead of a US person, not to move you ahead of a current AAer.

Just to set the record straight here.  700 is dead wrong.  I have read thru these 52 post and he still HAS NOT explained the integration correctly.  Yes he did post the language that has been agreed upon.  If everyone would take the time to read the language that 700 posted then you all would know that he has not correctly explained the integration.  Here it is;    If you have 2 mechs, one from AA and one from US, with the same DOC date, then the DOH date will be used for a tie braker, if this date is the same as well, then they will refer to the employees SSN to decide seniority placement on the list.   Here is an example, at SWA we have coordinators and cleaners that go thru the Aircraft mechanic program, once they graduate they are added to the list.  Let's say a new graduate from program and a new mechanic from the street are added to seniority list on 1-1-00, they would then revert to the DOH and the mechanic that graduated from the program would have more seniority as his DOH is lower.   This is how the integration reads that 700 posted,  DOC, then uses DOH and then SSN to brake the ties...

 

[CMH_GSE]

Just to set the record straight here.  700 is dead wrong.  I have read thru these 52 post and he still HAS NOT explained the integration correctly.  Yes he did post the language that has been agreed upon.  If everyone would take the time to read the language that 700 posted then you all would know that he has not correctly explained the integration.  Here it is;    If you have 2 mechs, one from AA and one from US, with the same DOC date, then the DOH date will be used for a tie braker, if this date is the same as well, then they will refer to the employees SSN to decide seniority placement on the list.   Here is an example, at SWA we have coordinators and cleaners that go thru the Aircraft mechanic program, once they graduate they are added to the list.  Let's say a new graduate from program and a new mechanic from the street are added to seniority list on 1-1-00, they would then revert to the DOH and the mechanic that graduated from the program would have more seniority as his DOH is lower.   This is how the integration reads that 700 posted,  DOC, then uses DOH and then SSN to brake the ties...

And to that point, there is NO DOC for the US ground support mechanics, that is, the ones that started out in aircraft and at some point moved into ground support.
That needs to happen.

 

[lpbrian]

I thought at AA company seniority was the first tiebreaker and age was the second?

 

[Rogallo]

I thought at AA company seniority was the first tiebreaker and age was the second?

 
It is...for now.
Some think we'll be going to the IAM way!

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

Seriously? Thread is titled "Seniority Integration" is it not? 
The questions I asked were not mechanic specific,nevermind the fact fleet will be voting on this dues harvesting alliance as well.

JFK
 
I for one am not saying what should happen or how things work in fleet service or any other dept. or group. It does not effect me what so ever so I really don't care.
I am not putting your job down it is one that is required at this time by the airline so someone has to do it.
 
I do take offence when the likes of 700UW and others who are not even in the industry or know anything about my job, other than from being in the industry or what the union they support tells them is posting what is or what should be within my class and craft.
 
The mechanics at AA have attempted to bring AMFA here for many yrs and some TWU supporters who work the ramp/fleet or something other than maint want or feel they have a right to distort what we are attempting to do. Calling us elitist. Just because we want our own union.
 
If it is not your concern they why put stuff here on this blog other than to create controversy?  700UW does not work for the IAM as he has said and is no longer an airline employee at USAirways. so ask your self why is it he feels to insert his bs on every thread on this site just look at the pages of each carrier or within each you will see him and many others who have no say. We don't think we are any better but we also Don't want ramp/fleet having a say on what union or what I feel I should get paid or any other of my benefits. If you make $100.00 per hr and I make $50.00 your union did a better job and I really don't care. We made our deal and have to deal with it.
 
There was a discussion about mechanics seniority and I interjected what is with A&P's and other mechanics at AA. Also about insp/leads. how it works here at aa.
 
700UW and others keep after it and are trying to sell us on the IAM. Telling us here at AA how its going to be. He has no clue and if you work for AA ask yourself which way things will be the AA way or US in the long run.

 

[700UW]

There you go again, I worked the class and craft for 20 years, I know a lot about you job. Get off your high horse already. I have negotiated and represented for all classification in the class and craft and CBA. Get use to the idea you don't have to be an A&P to be able to represent, one's classification has nothing to do with education, knowledge and skill level.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

And to that point, there is NO DOC for the US ground support mechanics, that is, the ones that started out in aircraft and at some point moved into ground support.
That needs to happen.

GSE
 
If you are in GSE or Facilities at the time of the merger you will get merged into that list.
Since they have a separate list for that title group.
 
If they were previous A/C maint and went into GSE/Facilities due to a bump or transfer so as to not fall off payroll, and maintain company time. The longer you stay in title 2
and not in Title 1 you loose time to a point you can't come back unless you go to the bottom like a new hire. That is my understanding. Just as if a ramp/fleet guy goes and gets his A&P and comes into MX he starts at the bottom of the list. He is just like a new hire in MX. That is the way it is. It may be different with the IAM I am not sure and don't care. I belong to the TWU until I retire or I can remove them and bring AMFA here to AA. No way do I or many others in MX want this association to become our representatives.
 
Everything we do in MX is done on occupational seniority. with the exception of vacation bids that is company time. We don't have lead time or insp time and all the other stuff at US. Being we are the larger company do you really think that 5000 guys are going to dictate to 11000 guys how things will be done think about that.
 
At AA our occupational is what US calls classification time. 
We have again two Title groups, one for A/C the other for Facilities/automotive.
DOH is company start date.
 
What equalizers/tie breakers that will be used will have to be agreed on by the unions or the membership.
 
GSE/Automotive/Utility/a/c cleaners/parts washers/shop mechanics/welders/O/H mechanics/A/C maint. these and may one or two I forgot are in MY CLASS AND CRAFT. This is set by the NMB not me or the union. Sores/fleet/ramp/ wont have a vote in anything to do with us. That is what we want, is that so hard for you to grasp.
 
pilots are separate as well are the flight attendants and gate agents. So we just want the same.
 
If you work at either AA or US you will be with us and have a vote. If it come to that.
If you want to effect change then sign a card so you can vote one way or the other but you do deserve to have a vote don't you think. The TWU and IAM need to go.
 
If you don't believe me as I said contact local 591's Prez and ask him. Ask the IAM lodge how it works at US Don't rely on 700UW he is full of himself and is ate up with the IAM. He's not an airline employee any longer.

 

[700UW]

So where in writing is that stated?
 
You have no idea of how it will happen at US there is NO title 2 at all.
 
There is one mechanic seniority list, plain and simple.
 
I worked under the CBA for 20 years, did you?
 
Go read the US/IAM CBA if you dont believe me.
 
You are speculating and have no idea of what will happen.
 
So show us in writing what will happen?
 
Oh wait, you cant.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

So where in writing is that stated?
 
You have no idea of how it will happen at US there is NO title 2 at all.
 
There is one mechanic seniority list, plain and simple.
 
I worked under the CBA for 20 years, did you?
 
Go read the US/IAM CBA if you dont believe me.
 
You are speculating and have no idea of what will happen.
 
So show us in writing what will happen?
 
Oh wait, you cant.

700uw
 
I never said I know what is at US you did, I said the way we do it here at aa.
 
Your telling every one the way it is when you are not even an airline employee you get any info from a friend or second hand you have self admitted your not with the IAM.
 
We all know so you don't need to tell us again we all know that there is no title 2 at US, and there is only one list. We at AA are different and it will remain that way unless change the CBA and vote to do so. Which is why I said that 5000 IAM guys are not going to out vote 11000 TWU guys. If we switch to AMFA then the entire membership will vote as one.
 
I don't care what union the stores guys are in or the fleet. or how well the unions that represent them do for those work groups I just want a union that is going to look out for mechanics only no matter what job they do.
 
It just seems that you and others that are not mechanics feel the need to tell us what we should do. If we are elitist and don't want anything to do with you them why is it that you and other want us to stay in the same union as the fleet and stores?
 
You put your two cents in on pilots, flight attendants, and every thread here, are you all that knowledgeable that you know all about the aviation biz but are no longer affiliated with it? How is the industry to survive? OH my God we don't know what to do 700UW is no longer here.

 

[trentrb211]

I think every mechanic from both sides, US and AA should sign an AMFA card and this JCBA can be voted on by neutral party. .. How bad would that be

 

[JFK Fleet Service]

MIAMI,I asked the Oracle of the IAM a couple of questions.Nothing more.

Didn't denigrate your work group,I'm just an AA employee with questions about this association.

 

[MetalMover]

I think every mechanic from both sides, US and AA should sign an AMFA card and this JCBA can be voted on by neutral party. .. How bad would that be

With regards to the AA mechanics seeking AMFA, the TWU and OVERSPEED will once again try to instill fear that more jobs will be lost if they choose AMFA.
With regards to the US mechanics seeking AMFA, the IAM and 700UW will try to instill fear that their IAM pension will be lost if they choose AMFA.

 

[dfw gen]

I believe you just crossed the line, sarcasm or not.[/quote

sue him!