reserves f/a's are sitting in phl

[Bear96]

Bear96,

Straight reserve? Year end and year out? Or is it just a month here and there?

Reserve stinks, no doubt about it. So, we need to figure out a better way. Do you have any suggestions? I seem to recall you left flying some time ago, right?

Dea

At UA it is straight reserve for the first five years, then rotating (one month on reserve / one month off) until you can hold a line. When new hires are regularly coming in, things are good. But since UA hasn't had new hires since 2001, most bases are now rotating. (That should change next year when the new hires start coming in again.)

It is true that reserve stinks no matter how you slice it. But it never seemed THAT bad at UA. Not having lived under the U system, I can't figure out if your system is actually "worse" or if maybe the complaints are a function of getting used to the new system y'all have (or if U just complains more?), so I am not in a position to suggest much in the way of improvements to U. UA has long had a time balancing sort of system which it seems you just switched over too so maybe UA is just used to it.

I remember at UA (and probably industrywide) it had always been clyclical. You fly your butt off certain times of the year (summer and holidays) and sit around a lot other times of the year (winter not around the holidays). That's why there is a guarantee. It's either that ... or seasonal furloughs.

You are correct; I recently left UA.

 

[phl/yyz]

Bear96,

Straight reserve? Year end and year out? Or is it just a month here and there?

Reserve stinks, no doubt about it. So, we need to figure out a better way. Do you have any suggestions? I seem to recall you left flying some time ago, right?

Dea

I just don't unterstand what is so bad with the RSV system...if you bid days off you want have another life outside the airline and stay off these boards and find something to do it works...I know it will not last but the less I fly the more money I make per hour...that keeps my attitude in check...all I have to do is answer the phone...no touch or weekend trips or bidding or using AIL...I have done BH and RSV the RSV system is not that bad...move to your base it will change your life... if your that un happy with the system you may have to make some changes or you will drive yourself crazy...make a list and see what is really important in life to you...trust me there is life outside the airline...

 

[Bear96]

...move to your base it will change your life...

Maybe that's the problem with those doing the complaining. Reserve is miserable; commuting is miserable; commuting on reserve is simply unbearable. So if that is the situation someone finds herself in, she needs to make some serious decisions in her life.

And yes I know with all the cutbacks a lot of U folk were forced out of their home base to a different one, which truly sucks. But now is the time to choose to either keep on suffering and complaining, or do something about the situation (which means either find a job closer to home, or find a home closer to job).

 

[N109UW]

You people really don't seem to get it. If they would finish what we were supposed to have in the contarct, things just might work out. Someone made a comment on why are we sitting and that we used to fly all the time. Sure some people flew all the time, but that was only because more senior reserves were passing all the time and not working. We were just paying them Min. Guarantee(about $33,000 plus benifits) not to work. That is why others were flying. Now they just spread the time among all, which is why we all get about 35-40 hours. Also, yes, if they would do the Pref Bid, most of the open time would go into blocks. Then we could get down to the final number if F/A's we really need. It might mean layoff or furloughs(and my wife might be one of them), but we need to get this company back on track and not pay employees for sitting around. It has been that way since I have been here in 1989. US East has wasted more money on bad business decision and poor work ethic than we could even imagine. Sure, we could blame it all on old US management, butsometimes we need to look back ourselves. It has always amazed me to hear people say"I don't want to work, I just want free money". I'd tell them, I wished they worked for some other airline, except mine. To see the attitude of" I'll leave it for someone else" is pathetic. You put the uniform on, do your damn job, or freakin quit. Get your candy a** out of here and let this new company grow to new heights.

 

[Travelpro72]

I couldn't agree more. Here we sit with little hours because of a system that is half @#$. I have no problem at all with working when I'm on duty. That is why I'm here and choose to stay. This system prevents reserves from making their time. So the company pays you minimum guarantee...well thats just what it is, minimum. It is not that easy for some to just pick up and move to your base. Some have families that work where they live and are not airline employees. So you do what you have to do to get to work and sit for your obligated time on duty. Now if we could be utilized rather than growing roots would be great. There is life outside of any industry a person works in just as there should be some sense of quality inside the industry you work in. The company cannot possibly find that the f/a (b/h and reserve)system we have is cost effective. Some may say to keep quiet, but I have no problem doing what I was hired to do. To sit around and do nothing is not what I was hired to do. It is only US-east that seems to have this problem. It prevents hard working people from doing well, a days work.

 

[Bear96]

Is the problem really (1) "the system," or (2) the fact that there simply isn't enough work to go around to satisfy everyone? Serious question -- I don't know.

If some reserves are flying their a$$es off and others are sitting, I would suspect that (1) is the answer. But if no one is flying enough (which seems to be the case based on the postings here where no reserve seems to be complaining about flying "too much"), that would suggest (2). And the only solution to that is a(nother) furlough.

 

[N109UW]

Ther ya go, now you are catching on. If the company(US East) would have dealt with the problem earlier, we might not be where we are now. At the very least, the company would like all reserves to fly 71 hours, that way they are not giving away money. US East has always had this problem. The AIL sheet only contributes to the problem, but you acn guarentee that our Powerful and Great Union will do their best to keep it, even screwing the reserves again. Anyone remeber the reserve override($1 per hour for each hour flown, and even that didn't include VAC,min guar., or sick time), where did that go? They gave up, like the only bone they through to a reserve. But it's ok, we kept SAP.

 

[phl/yyz]

Ther ya go, now you are catching on. If the company(US East) would have dealt with the problem earlier, we might not be where we are now. At the very least, the company would like all reserves to fly 71 hours, that way they are not giving away money. US East has always had this problem. The AIL sheet only contributes to the problem, but you acn guarentee that our Powerful and Great Union will do their best to keep it, even screwing the reserves again. Anyone remeber the reserve override($1 per hour for each hour flown, and even that didn't include VAC,min guar., or sick time), where did that go? They gave up, like the only bone they through to a reserve. But it's ok, we kept SAP.

if there was no SAP there would be no SEC lines...that would be more RSV's

Maybe that's the problem with those doing the complaining. Reserve is miserable; commuting is miserable; commuting on reserve is simply unbearable. So if that is the situation someone finds herself in, she needs to make some serious decisions in her life.

And yes I know with all the cutbacks a lot of U folk were forced out of their home base to a different one, which truly sucks. But now is the time to choose to either keep on suffering and complaining, or do something about the situation (which means either find a job closer to home, or find a home closer to job).

great point...all those suffering and complaining...take note

 

[N109UW]

if there was no SAP there would be no SEC lines...that would be more RSV's

Tr to think outside the box for a second. If they had Pref Bid, they wouldn't need AIL or SAP. You wouldn't need Sec lines, that is the way it was supposed to work. All the open time would be put into blocks. Do you see it , or do I need to explain further? If we did this, then we could get to the number of F/A's that we actually need. Wow, here is a concept, use reserves as reserves, you know, irregular ops, that kind of stuff. Since I have been here, it has been pathetic to use reserves this way. The waste here has been far too much. Can you imagine having your own company and paying people to pass trips, trying not to work. What a positive place that would be(wait, am I discribing the old US?) It all comes down to letting go of the Bid Sheet. "Come on, Mikey, try it".

 

[Travelpro72]

So basically what some are saying is that we should either move into base and or leave the company? We should not complain and demand a better system for reserves? The reserve system we have now is ok? Instead of wanting change we should accept what we have been dealt and shut up about it or leave? I have NEVER had conversation with a fellow reserve that thought this system was fair. PLEASE don't spread that kind of BS because most don't care for this reserve system. We didn't ask for it! Maybe some are ok with making minimum guarantee but I for sure am not. I LIKE TO WORK BUT CAN'T.

 

[Bear96]

So basically what some are saying is that we should either move into base and or leave the company? We should not complain and demand a better system for reserves?

I'm not sure if that was specifically directed to me or not, but I would propose that NO reserve system is going to be much fun if you add in a commute on top of it. So I guess that leaves three options: move into base; leave the company; or deal with commuting hassles and sitting in a nasty crash pad for a big chunk of your life.

I'm not sure ANY reserve system at a major airline can consistently deliver what you seem to want: to have all reserves working on (almost) every day they are on duty getting lots of hours. There will always be "slow" times when reserves sit. Early December and early November (before the Christmas / Thanksgiving holiday periods) are always going to be those times,and notoriously so. As will January through around March. At least that has pretty consistently been the case at UA, so I imagine it is true to a degree elsewhere. A reserve system HAS to have slack in it so it can cover the tighter times (summer, holidays, operational issues like weather, etc.). The only other solution is to lay people off for a few weeks or months at a time during the slow periods, or make people temp / seasonal workers.

Of course I don't mean to suggest there is NO room for improvement and I am totally clueless when people are throwing terms like "AIL" and "SAP" around, so there may very well be ways to improve the system by working on those things (whatever they are -- I would guess UA has them too or at least something similar but they are called something different). But the bottom line is that a reserve system is inherently going to be unpleasant. The larger and more complex an airline, the more that is likely to be true.

 

[phl/yyz]

if there was no SAP there would be no SEC lines...that would be more RSV's

Tr to think outside the box for a second. If they had Pref Bid, they wouldn't need AIL or SAP. You wouldn't need Sec lines, that is the way it was supposed to work. All the open time would be put into blocks. Do you see it , or do I need to explain further? If we did this, then we could get to the number of F/A's that we actually need. Wow, here is a concept, use reserves as reserves, you know, irregular ops, that kind of stuff. Since I have been here, it has been pathetic to use reserves this way. The waste here has been far too much. Can you imagine having your own company and paying people to pass trips, trying not to work. What a positive place that would be(wait, am I discribing the old US?) It all comes down to letting go of the Bid Sheet. "Come on, Mikey, try it".

I agree with you...but pref bid never took place thought that was Tracy C's baby? the old US RSV was just as un productive...back in the day of old rigs I could be O/T in 12 days and outta here...I understand the system is bad they want all RSV's to get a MIN month and that;s it...I am just playin the hand I am delt...I have always got my time BH or RSV untill NOV it was nice to take a break in NOV for a change...the old system people abused re; pass for a 2E three days in a row...we are over staffed for now but will need people when the list are merged...oh I get it and think well outside the box...Im just making the best out of it...it won't last forever I just like to keep a postive attitude...so I make the best of RSV and I really do love sitting in my crash pad...not being a smart ass it's true...best to you all

 

[phl/yyz]

So basically what some are saying is that we should either move into base and or leave the company? We should not complain and demand a better system for reserves? The reserve system we have now is ok? Instead of wanting change we should accept what we have been dealt and shut up about it or leave? I have NEVER had conversation with a fellow reserve that thought this system was fair. PLEASE don't spread that kind of BS because most don't care for this reserve system. We didn't ask for it! Maybe some are ok with making minimum guarantee but I for sure am not. I LIKE TO WORK BUT CAN'T.

If you want more time there is the ETB I only flew 42+00 last month by choice I could have flown 2 days OFF days and made 85hrs. and still had 15days off...but I had stuff to do...come to philly the place that loves you back...I not sayin the system is fair what in life is? Im just makin RSV work for me that's all...

 

[N109UW]

I'm not sure if that was specifically directed to me or not, but I would propose that NO reserve system is going to be much fun if you add in a commute on top of it. So I guess that leaves three options: move into base; leave the company; or deal with commuting hassles and sitting in a nasty crash pad for a big chunk of your life.

I'm not sure ANY reserve system at a major airline can consistently deliver what you seem to want: to have all reserves working on (almost) every day they are on duty getting lots of hours. There will always be "slow" times when reserves sit. Early December and early November (before the Christmas / Thanksgiving holiday periods) are always going to be those times,and notoriously so. As will January through around March. At least that has pretty consistently been the case at UA, so I imagine it is true to a degree elsewhere. A reserve system HAS to have slack in it so it can cover the tighter times (summer, holidays, operational issues like weather, etc.). The only other solution is to lay people off for a few weeks or months at a time during the slow periods, or make people temp / seasonal workers.

Of course I don't mean to suggest there is NO room for improvement and I am totally clueless when people are throwing terms like "AIL" and "SAP" around, so there may very well be ways to improve the system by working on those things (whatever they are -- I would guess UA has them too or at least something similar but they are called something different). But the bottom line is that a reserve system is inherently going to be unpleasant. The larger and more complex an airline, the more that is likely to be true.

Bear, I commuted to DCA from CLT for 8 years to hold a better reserve line. My seniority in CLT would hve left me on quick call(not sure if you know what that is?) for most of my time. I didn't complain about it, as it was my choice to commute. However, my seniority in DCA would allow me to get 95 hours on MY terms, not the companys. What part of the company are you from? Are you a stew, what base/ Enlighten us, please. You are typing to someone who has lived as a reserve for almost 17 years.

I agree with you...but pref bid never took place thought that was Tracy C's baby? the old US RSV was just as un productive...back in the day of old rigs I could be O/T in 12 days and outta here...I understand the system is bad they want all RSV's to get a MIN month and that;s it...I am just playin the hand I am delt...I have always got my time BH or RSV untill NOV it was nice to take a break in NOV for a change...the old system people abused re; pass for a 2E three days in a row...we are over staffed for now but will need people when the list are merged...oh I get it and think well outside the box...Im just making the best out of it...it won't last forever I just like to keep a postive attitude...so I make the best of RSV and I really do love sitting in my crash pad...not being a smart ass it's true...best to you all

That's great, now try taking a year break and if it's so nice, you could always bid Reserve and enjoy more time off. Most of us are complaining because we are not flying. That to me is a great complaint. I am so used to " I can't believe the company wants me to work(how dare they), I just want to sit home, take care of my baby, live off min. guarantee and my husband/pilots salary. Perfect world. A bunch of non-motivated workers complaining about having to work. And you wonder why people are upset about NAFTA.

 

[phl/yyz]

Bear, I commuted to DCA from CLT for 8 years to hold a better reserve line. My seniority in CLT would hve left me on quick call(not sure if you know what that is?) for most of my time. I didn't complain about it, as it was my choice to commute. However, my seniority in DCA would allow me to get 95 hours on MY terms, not the companys. What part of the company are you from? Are you a stew, what base/ Enlighten us, please. You are typing to someone who has lived as a reserve for almost 17 years.
That's great, now try taking a year break and if it's so nice, you could always bid Reserve and enjoy more time off. Most of us are complaining because we are not flying. That to me is a great complaint. I am so used to " I can't believe the company wants me to work(how dare they), I just want to sit home, take care of my baby, live off min. guarantee and my husband/pilots salary. Perfect world. A bunch of non-motivated workers complaining about having to work. And you wonder why people are upset about NAFTA.

I do bid RSV I would be a very jr SEC lineholder having to touch every weekend...and what does NAFTA have to do with anything...PS I am very motivated but I am union labor...It's a job not a career...best health care good pay just show up and be nice...have other investements that take up my time but will fly any time the company need's me to...RSV gives me that time ...make BH less restrictive and I will bid a block...ps I work smart not hard and if I had a pilot husband my wife would freak on me...lol