Reserve

[hula-flyguy]

PT times such as the rsv pilot group has would be great in assuring rsv f/a's are rested before they fly. However, PT does not apply to transatlantic. What I dont understand is ....what happened with the "me too" clause. How does the union pick and choose what to include under that umbrella?

 

[Dorf]

If you are called in the middle of the night and have been on duty for 24 hours you must say "I am FATIGUED and cannot perform my duties". That is not refusing to fly. Then call the union.

You should call the FAA Safety Hotline at 1-800-255-1111.
They do follow up on calls/accusations of safety concerns.

 

[N109UW]

You should call the FAA Safety Hotline at 1-800-255-1111.
They do follow up on calls/accusations of safety concerns.

Recently in CLT, 8 rsv's were called out at 0005, right after they went on duty, to go to LGW at 0245. One of them said they were fatigued and tired and didn't feel safe. They scheduler said they would have to take that up with their supervisor when they got back and said if they didn't take the trip, it would cancel because of them. Unbelieveable. That's how we are treated. So, after being up all day long and just getting to bed, you are told, you have to go to LGW at 0245 with an arrival of 1030 the next morning. Sounds safe to me.

 

[Twicebaked]

Recently in CLT, 8 rsv's were called out at 0005, right after they went on duty, to go to LGW at 0245. One of them said they were fatigued and tired and didn't feel safe. They scheduler said they would have to take that up with their supervisor when they got back and said if they didn't take the trip, it would cancel because of them. Unbelieveable. That's how we are treated. So, after being up all day long and just getting to bed, you are told, you have to go to LGW at 0245 with an arrival of 1030 the next morning. Sounds safe to me.

Well, this is a sticky situation. Knowing you WENT on duty, you should have been rested and prepared to go at midnight.

My point is...even if we have duty periods such as 0001 to 1200 or 1201 to 0000 YOU need to know when YOU need to rest.

If you went on at 0001 you CANNOT use the "I am fatigued" excuse. YOU know you go on at 0001 so again YOU need to rest.

Does that make sense? Most won't sleep during the day, but that is YOUR problem.

I do agree that we need shifts, but there are some that will still complain about it....as stated in the last post.

Those who work the "grave yard shift" somewhere know they have to sleep throughout the day.

 

[N109UW]

Well, this is a sticky situation. Knowing you WENT on duty, you should have been rested and prepared to go at midnight.

My point is...even if we have duty periods such as 0001 to 1200 or 1201 to 0000 YOU need to know when YOU need to rest.

If you went on at 0001 you CANNOT use the "I am fatigued" excuse. YOU know you go on at 0001 so again YOU need to rest.

Does that make sense? Most won't sleep during the day, but that is YOUR problem.

Those who work the "grave yard shift" somewhere know they have to sleep throughout the day.

You don't get it. All rsv's work the "graveyard shift". They all go on-duty at midnight. So when should they all sleep. Maybe you could make a sleeping schedule for them. This is not our problem, and it doesn't seem to be yours either. Let us know when you get our sleeping arrangements done, so we can post it and get some rest. Lord knows the rsv's deserve it.

 

[Travelpro72]

Well I'll say this much. If you go on at midnight and know your up there for dialy in the morning your not gonna be snoozing all that heavy. At least I know I won't . Now with that being said I usually wake up around 5 to see what opened overnight. Now I have been up for a bit and will try to go back to sleep. You wake up at oh say the average 8-9am and are up ALL DAY.....again ALL DAY and MOST IMPORTANTLY "ON-DUTY". That seems to be the key word here. What is the difference between the "on-duty" when it pertains to the 24/7 rule yet "on-duty" for a reserve in that 24hour window is different? How can you be on duty 24hours a day for 6 days straight? I'm not a doctor making the doctors salary nor a fireman. It's NOT healthy and it's NOT safe. I don't care how you want to cut it. If you are up all damn day you cannot be expected to fly to Europe all night and on top of THAT a reduced rest when you get there due to a late departure. It's bullsh!t and I will call out "FATIGUED". End of discussion. The company is going to have a fight on their hands because I don't think this one is going to rest. Anyone else sense that this is starting to boil?

 

[lildutchgrl]

The last time I tried to call out fatigued, scheduling said I would get a refuse to fly for not finishing my day. It was my fourth day following three consecutive 15 hour days. Fortunately I had our PHL LEC VP's cell phone number. She said I had to go to 15 period. I could be fatigued after that, but not before. I had to call FAA just to get off the trip. Yes, these are the same people representing the East in our new contract. What a joke. Make everyone on the JNC be on the east reserve system for one month. They would probably end up quitting, on dependability, or terminated. They haven't a clue. It just sucks when you wake up seeing that you are number 5 for daily. Get showered, made up, and prepared for that call only to sit all day and get quick called for Rome at 10:00 pm because the crew went illegal. I don't know about everyone else, but when I do fly to Europe, I try to take a nice long nap in the middle of the day to prepare, but I don't do that on any ordinary day. Our system needs to change. Email MF and let your voice be heard!

 

[Skyward]

The West system is 12 hours of availablity with at least a two hour call out, in one of three general time periods, followed by 12 hours rest.

A 0100 - 1300
B 0700 - 1900
C 1500 - 0300

The "shift" is assigned to the Reserve Day the day before, with shift preference mostly taken into account. Reserve days are known for the month after the 17th of the month prior.

 

[Travelpro72]

Well the way I see it is you go on duty at midnight and sit "on-duty" all day then get called at 1am for europe? I don't think so. If she said 15Period then wouldn't that in fact be over 24 hours. The FAA already said on duty is ON THE AC working or ON DUTY PERIOD (No difference). I'm not seeing the difference here or ANY GRAY AREA. FATIGUED all the way! ! !

 

[Twicebaked]

You don't get it. All rsv's work the "graveyard shift". They all go on-duty at midnight. So when should they all sleep. Maybe you could make a sleeping schedule for them. This is not our problem, and it doesn't seem to be yours either. Let us know when you get our sleeping arrangements done, so we can post it and get some rest. Lord knows the rsv's deserve it.

YOU are missing MY point.

I am saying that with our current system we have NO designated time to sleep/rest.

If we had shifts, you would know that THIS is my time to sleep. It is up to me to sleep during my 8 hour "rest". If I chose NOT to rest when I go on at 0001 that IS MY problem and I cannot use a "fatigue" excuse, because I know I was supposed to sleep during my rest.

That said, if I am OFF for 4 days(current system) and know I am coming on at midnight, I HAD an opportunity to sleep and be prepared. Now, for the next few days.....NO!!!!!!

Trust me, we are on the same page on this... WE NEED REST TIMES. But with that, comes responsibility to know when I need to sleep during those "off" hours. If we don't take responsiblity for ourselves regarding rest on a shift system.....that system won't work for you either.

 

[songbirdstew]

I know someone commented on this on another thread and I have to comment on it here too. What did everyone think of MF last e-line about RSVs ???

Every time a Reserve calls one of us we are directly affected.
Every time a Reserve sends one of us an email we are directly affected.
Every time a Reserve talks to one of us on a flight we are directly
affected.

I thought it was a bunch of BS ! Shame on him to act like being on reserve affects him. He is not the one getting called in the middle of the night. I want to know HOW he is directly affected ? Because he has to answer the phone and listen to us and do his JOB????

Here's the bottom line w/ me and this RSV system. This system is not what was voted on...period. I did NOT vote yes for this or any contract over the last 21 years however the majority did so out of fear (just my opinion).

However, we were told that with this new system the options would be replaced by the ETB for the B/H and the RSVs would be able to supplement their income via ETB....both of which are no longer happening. The union went to the company and asked for them to lower the B/H floor to 40 hours so there would be more trips on the ETB board...but we can't pick them up.

This is NOT what the F/A group voted for and our union should not be bending over for the company "until we have a joint contract" as MF has told me.

You do realise folks that we might never have a joint contract and ours is signed through 2011. I personally don't think we should have to live through 4 more years of this crap.

If MF and his band of MECPs don't want to do anything about this system then perhaps we should vote them out and vote in people who WILL try to do something.

I am so TIRED of MF MEC E-lines with his "we are outraged" & "we are appalled"---well then Mike, DO something. His last e-line that included the RSVs portion about how terrible the RSV system is made me want to vomit. The MEC concentrates on stupid stuff like making sure that those in the training dept get their seniority. They were able to change THAT in the contract. Why not this ???

He said that pref bidding would not be good for the F/A group. Well, let me just say, anything would be better than this !

I think everyone on this board should e-mail MF and ask about his recent statements about how the MEC is directly affected when none of them are on RSV...then post his responses here. I bet we'd get a yard of blarney w/ a different response of donkey dung to rival the sand out in Tempe.

 

[beachboy]

Well, isn't Mike's term up soon? If your not happy then enough talk do something.Call your LECP and tell them who you want to be the MECP. Careful that we wish for. Have we not learned anything so far to date? Do you have someone that is going to do a better job for sure? Just have it planned out!

 

[FlightChic]

If I chose NOT to rest when I go on at 0001 that IS MY problem and I cannot use a "fatigue" excuse, because I know I was supposed to sleep during my rest.

That said, if I am OFF for 4 days(current system) and know I am coming on at midnight, I HAD an opportunity to sleep and be prepared.

I'm not sure whether you commute but this summer my commute has been horrendous. There are times when I get up at 7-8am, get ready, drive an hour to the airport, try to get on 11am flight, but I don't because I am so junior and there are 20 other non revs ahead of me so I wait for the next flight and have same problem and wait for a later flight. I finally get on after 2-3 tries because I agree to work for someone. We sit on the runway for a long time and finally get to PHL around 8pm, get to my crashpad around 9pm, eat and get ready for bed. When I commute it can be a little chaotic and I really don't have time to be rested. It is so stressful but I have no choice but to commute.

 

[beachboy]

Twice does commute. To be fair commuting is a lifestyle for the most part. If you were with PI or PSA OK, I will cut some slack. Most of my friends moved even for those base closures. Don't think most of us live in PHL because it's beautiful. Boo Radley Hoo people can't fly in. Move to the base but anything less is a choice unless you were displaced to this base. I wear a flap jacket into Center City Philly because of the murder rate. Its a dump but I make the best of it and pay to live in a decent area.

 

[FlightChic]

Twice does commute. To be fair commuting is a lifestyle for the most part. If you were with PI or PSA OK, I will cut some slack. Most of my friends moved even for those base closures. Don't think most of us live in PHL because it's beautiful. Boo Raddley Hoo people can't fly in. Move to the base but anything less is a choice unless you were displaced to this base. I wear a flap jacket into Center City Philly because of the murder rate. Its a dump but I make the best of it and pay to live in a decent area.

Can I afford to live in a nice area on $1300 a month and have money left over to save? I simply cannot live the quality of life in PHL that I have where I currently live. I do have a choice! I can choose to live in the slums and fear for my life and deal with roommates or I can live in a nice house in a safe and pretty area where I am happy which is also a lot cheaper than living PHL so I can save some money for a down payment for a house and invest the rest for my future. My life is where I live now. I would not even think about making a life in PHL and raising my kids there. It just won't happen. Also, financially speaking, it just doesn't make sense so I am willing to "waste my time" commuting for now. Also, living with lots of other flight attendants full time is not an option for me either. The commute wasn't bad until just recently. It should get better after the Summer. Even if it doesn't, I am still not moving. I am doing what's right for me and my situation. It may change in the future but this is how it is now.

BTW, now that I know that things are only going to get worse in this industry I am working on a Plan C so I can leave in a few years. I already have a Plan B so that I could leave tomorrow if I wanted but I would rather stick it out and take advantage of the free time to work on my Plan C.