Pilot labor thread week 4/27-5/3

[oldiebutgoody]

A smart fellow named George Nicolau neutered the east pilot group-- what they say or threaten to do at this point is of little consequence, especially with an ALPA super majority on the property with AWA + UAL. USAPs are done.

Keep spouting if it makes you feel good, but you are not supporting your own union. I guess that would make you a SCAB.

We'll see whom prevails. Your diatribe is getting tiresome.

I'm hoping that one of the first things USAPA does is sign an LOA putting the West under LOA 93. Since no west members will join or have a say in it, it will easily pass member ratification.

 

[Piedmont1984]

I'm speculating a little here. But I would expect the sequence of events in any future merger, such as UAL, to be first, negotiate a seniority list; and second, vote on a union.

In other words, the SLI (seniority list integration) would need to be addressed first. In which case USAPA is the CBA for our side, Alleghany-Mohawk and the legislation passed in December would govern; and only afterward would a representational election be held.

So like a year ago, don't get too excited about cashing in any lottery ticket you may think you have.

 

[prechilill]

I'm speculating a little here. But I would expect the sequence of events in any future merger, such as UAL, to be first, negotiate a seniority list; and second, vote on a union.

In other words, the SLI (seniority list integration) would need to be addressed first. In which case USAPA is the CBA for our side, Alleghany-Mohawk and the legislation passed in December would govern; and only afterward would a representational election be held.

So like a year ago, don't get too excited about cashing in any lottery ticket you may think you have.

I would say you are speculating incorrectly, and quite a bit too! Allegheny Mohawk has nothing to do with date of hire, by the way. Look it up sometime and learn a little about it.
USAPs will fail on their own merit, but it does look like you guys will be saved from yourselves with the help of the United pilot group. I am sorry first officer Bradford can't cash in his lottery ticket to upgrades ahead of every AWA pilot. Oh well. Maybe the scraggly haired politician can think up another "master plan" in somebody else's van? I wouldn't put it past him. Retiring as an FO probably is not what kids dream about...
Just remember, what goes around comes around. For you guys out east, I think it is coming around soon. Take care!

 

[Piedmont1984]

I would say you are speculating incorrectly, and quite a bit too! Allegheny Mohawk has nothing to do with date of hire, by the way. Look it up sometime and learn a little about it.
USAPs will fail on their own merit, but it does look like you guys will be saved from yourselves with the help of the United pilot group. I am sorry first officer Bradford can't cash in his lottery ticket to upgrades ahead of every AWA pilot. Oh well. Maybe the scraggly haired politician can think up another "master plan" in somebody else's van? I wouldn't put it past him. Retiring as an FO probably is not what kids dream about...
Just remember, what goes around comes around. For you guys out east, I think it is coming around soon. Take care!

I didn't say DOH. And what I was thinking was "fair and equitable", which the Nic was not and which A-M and the new law will insure. But since you brought it up - yes, A-M does not use the words DOH, but the practice and precedent under A-M has been strongly biased towards DOH.

I'm not too worried. And I notice your veiled acknowledgement that the east F/O's got screwed by Nicolau.

 

[sharktooth]

I would say you are speculating incorrectly, and quite a bit too! Allegheny Mohawk has nothing to do with date of hire, by the way. Look it up sometime and learn a little about it.
USAPs will fail on their own merit, but it does look like you guys will be saved from yourselves with the help of the United pilot group. I am sorry first officer Bradford can't cash in his lottery ticket to upgrades ahead of every AWA pilot. Oh well. Maybe the scraggly haired politician can think up another "master plan" in somebody else's van? I wouldn't put it past him. Retiring as an FO probably is not what kids dream about...
Just remember, what goes around comes around. For you guys out east, I think it is coming around soon. Take care!

Ouch, someone is pretty uncertain about themselves.....

 

[electricjet98]

I'm speculating a little here. But I would expect the sequence of events in any future merger, such as UAL, to be first, negotiate a seniority list; and second, vote on a union.

In other words, the SLI (seniority list integration) would need to be addressed first. In which case USAPA is the CBA for our side, Alleghany-Mohawk and the legislation passed in December would govern; and only afterward would a representational election be held.

So like a year ago, don't get too excited about cashing in any lottery ticket you may think you have.

I believe you may have it a bit back-arse-wards...again. From memory, weren't the AAA & AWA mechanics members of different unions? Did not the NMB declare that they were of single carrier status? Did they not then vote for a single Collective Bargaining Agent and eventually a new contract?

I'm sure that between the UAL & AWA pilots, USAPA will soon be a short footnote in airline history...noted as the shortest lived union (association) in airline history! But at least the majority of the future ALPA represented pilot group will agree that the basis of future seniority negotiations will start with Nic as a baseline!

 

[767jetz]

I believe 767jetz is on target. No one wanted to deal with the east group before the AWA merger; their actions since then have rendered any merger involving them essentially impossible. The only way the UAL pilots would stomach a US/UA deal would be to demand a prenup so onerous to the US-east group that nuclear war would ensue. Should UAL management disregard this and cram the deal down their throats anyway, the nuclear war would be instituted by the UAL group.

I am not a UAL pilot; I could be misreading the situation. Perhaps 767jetz has a better sense of the UAL pilots' feelings about the US-east pilot group.

WOW! I'm gone for a few hours and the world implodes!! I better get busy typing!

OK, first off let's get this out of the way... CO says they will not merge. No one can control what CO's board wants to do, so absent a hostile takeover (which no one was implying) if CO doesn't want to get married, then there is no marriage. Does this prove that LCC was going to merge with UA all along. NO. It proves that CO was UA's first choice, and now UA will move on to other plans.

Am I disappointed? Absolutely. IMO UA/CO deal would have been an incredible powerhouse, a (relatively) painless integration of labor, and I would have loved to had a chance to prove to the East that an equitable integration can happen without DOH and giving up career expectations. I was not wrong that a CO/UA deal was imminent. I was wrong in that no one expected CO to change their mind after having gone so far and so deep as it did with UA. Oh well. Time to move on. I'm the first to admit that this is definitely not how I believed things would unfold.

Now, on to pacemaker's comments. You are correct in stating that no one, and I do mean NO ONE will walk in and take what is ours. So there is no mistake, that comment is directed squarely at the same East pilots who thought that they would fly our 747's and 777's back in 2000. I don't know what our MEC has for contingency plans yet, but I'm sure your comments are accurate with regard to a prenup. Management will not be successful in any merger attemt that does not protect the over 8000 United pilots. UA pilots stand ready to battle to the end if need be. There is always the hope that it won't be necessary, but we have the numbers, the solidarity, and the deep pockets to defend our postion very well. Keep in mind that ALPA has a war chest no longer available to USAirways, and UA ALPA can easily outspend USAPA in any integration battle.

But let's not get ahead of ourselves here. Just because CO decided to remain independent, doesn't make a merger with US predetermined.

1- CO could be playing a very strong poker hand, trying to get a better deal from Tilton. Remember that DL and NW scuttled their merger only to re-announce it a couple of weeks later.

2- UA might realize that it will never have labor peace and decide that taking on US is not worth it.

3- With CO remaining independent, there will only be one mega carrier called Delta. So UA could easily go it alone, since the landscape has not changed that drastically. They might even form an alliance with CO joining STAR.

4- US brings nothing but more domestic capacity to the table. (Something UA is determined to reduce) Where's the benefit? It just doesn't make sense.

5- UA might fall back on plan B and merge with US to avoid having AA grab it.

6- UA and AA could carve up US and split the spoils. (not likely.)

7- UA could cut a deal with Lufthansa for a merger with Jet Blue.

Whatever happens from here on in, it will certainly be a bumpy ride for all. Hang on tight!

 

[hp_fa]

**If** there was a merger between UA and US, the pilots would be going back to ALPA simply based on the number of UAL pilots and the large majority of West pilots. AFA represents all the FA's. I don't know who represents the ramp and CSR's at UA, so I can't say anything there, but the size of UA would lead me to believe that UA unions would be the survivors **if** a merger were to occur.

We just need to wait and see.

 

[Elevation]

Question: what's the personal connection between the UAL MEC and AWA? Anybody?

 

[EastUS]

WOW! I'm gone for a few hours and the world implodes!! I better get busy typing!

Feel perfectly free to spare yourself, your typing fingers, and all of us, the effort of further "predictions" if it suits you. The below quoted posts and predictions are all yours jetz:

Continental in advance merger talks with United "When can I say "I told you so?" Another post again notes = "Gee... When can I say "I told you so."
As often, and as completely incorrectly as you please it seems. Just FYI though: The proper time, if EVER, for ANY "I told you so" is generally only after one's ever proven to be right about, well really anything at all.....Just a thought.

"But don't you fret... CO and UA pilots have already worked out most of the details. That I know for fact, from the horses mouth. they bring a lot to the table as do we. It will be a very equitable integration. Jealous?" I'm not yet fully convinced that the horse's "mouth" is indeed the source of your intimate knowledge of future events, nor of your constantly offered "predictions" in general.....

"Think what you want. While there are certainly going to be some on both sides of any merger who do not want it to go through, I have talked directly to people involved with the union negotiations. And while they are unable to provide specifics due to confidentiality, one can usually read between the lines when a person who wants to tell all but can't speaks to you. (A foot stomp here and a rolling of the eyes there... non verbal communication is a wonderful thing ) A UA/CO merger, while still full of potential hurdles from a labor perspective, will be one of the smoothest integrations you will ever see. Mark my words." Your words are duly "marked"...sigh...yet again

As hp fa properly notes above = "We just need to wait and see".

As another person posting about the many merger posibilities earlier noted: "ZZZZZZZZZZZZ More of Jetz's anti-US obsession. Jeez, change the record already. We get it, we get it -- you hate US Airways. Point made, point taken. Get some professional help and move on with your friggin' life! "

"

 

[dariencc]

Feel perfectly free to spare yourself, your typing fingers, and all of us, the effort of further "predictions" if it suits you. The below quoted posts and predictions are all yours jetz:

EastUS,

I must rise to state that you should be applauding, not criticizing, "Jetz." After all, for entertainment purposes alone, this board has been sorely missing a daily source of frantically deranged predictions and "analysis" since the self imposed exile of the distinguished USA320Pilot.

Please give the artiste his due.

 

[EastUS]

EastUS,

I must rise to state that you should be applauding, not criticizing, "Jetz." After all, for entertainment purposes alone, this board has been sorely missing a daily source of frantically deranged predictions and "analysis" since the self imposed exile of the distinguished USA320Pilot.

Please give the artiste his due.

Point taken. Far be it for me to improperly disparage any presentations, however utterly absurd, of "performance art" of any sort. We may actually be the priveledged audience for the internet's debut of "Naivete"..."an independantly produced, compelling, and on-going tribute.".

 

[givenup]

EastUS,

I must rise to state that you should be applauding, not criticizing, "Jetz." After all, for entertainment purposes alone, this board has been sorely missing a daily source of frantically deranged predictions and "analysis" since the self imposed exile of the distinguished USA320Pilot.

Please give the artiste his due.

Look forward to hear a take on Tilton's comment tonight after his prom date stood him up.

CHICAGO, April 27 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- UAL Corporation UAUA issued the following statement from Chairman, President and Chief Executive Glenn Tilton regarding industry consolidation:

"Our strategy is consistent. Consolidation is underway -- ensuring you have the right partner is everything. We will pursue all options to ensure a strong, sustainable future for our airline and will not shy away from the tough choices necessary to create value for our shareholders and benefit our employees and customers."

 

[nostradamus]

A smart fellow named George Nicolau neutered the east pilot group-- what they say or threaten to do at this point is of little consequence, especially with an ALPA super majority on the property with AWA + UAL. USAPs are done.

What George Nicolau, did in his lifetime, pales in the fact that he did not know when to retire. George allowed himself between naps, to listen to alpa and drunk doug.

George is done as a arbitrator because of his last finding. He has his sign up on the door but is not arbitrating anything now.

america west pilots are the bottom of the barrel. I take a lot of pride in knowing that john, mitch and tina are back on the front lines. They were a spoiled bunch of entitled mind set, union backing alpa cowards. I have enjoyed this so much, I am going to smoke a cigarette now just thinking about this.

 

[ClueByFour]

We may actually be the priveledged audience for the internet's debut of "Naivete"..."an independantly produced, compelling, and on-going tribute.".

That already happened in two instances prior.

One was on 7-May-07. I'll let you figure that one out.

The second was when someone registered usairlinepilots.org.