Pilot labor thread 5/4-5/10

[AAA73Pilot]

How come nobody here wrote about how "moronic" the AAA MEC was prior to USAPA winning? I find it very interesting that now, suddenly, the blame for all your woes isn't entirely on the Prater, et al.

Just wait until you see how happy you are with that corrupt den of thieves known as USAPA. As the French say, Plus Ça Change, Plus Ce la Même Chose, The More Things Change, the More they Stay the Same.

I wrote and posted about that very topic using that very word, "Moronic". If you want to take the time and research it, I guess I posted this about 7-8 months ago. And NO, my opinion of Prater and ALPA have not changed. After reading about the CAL pilots, my disgust for ALPA is even more confirmed.

Right now I am very satisfied / happy with the USAPA leadership. Would really like to see the west participate, but not expecting any anytime soon. Hopefully relations will thaw down the road. Oh well.

 

[exB717Flyer]

Would really like to see the west participate, but not expecting any anytime soon.

Why not? Why in the world is every former West ALPA rep and and committee members telling the USAPA callers to go pound salt? Could the Westies really be as emotional and irrational as the Easties? Perhaps the answer is we know something about USAPA's future that you don't.

Hopefully relations will thaw down the road. Oh well.

You forget that there's really no ALPA-loving on the West. Had USAPA not been all about undoing binding arbitration we might've been all for it. You might want to consider the possibility that USAPA's attempt to redo the seniority list will fail -- and then you'll just have to start acting like a real union and represent the interests of both sides. Maybe then you'll see some support from the West.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Why not? Perhaps the answer is we know something about USAPA's future that you don't.

Yea, why not?
If I were you, with such knowledge, I would go to Vegas and bet the farm then.

You forget that there's really no ALPA-loving on the West. Had USAPA not been all about undoing binding arbitration we might've been all for it. You might want to consider the possibility that USAPA's attempt to redo the seniority list will fail -- and then you'll just have to start acting like a real union and represent the interests of both sides. Maybe then you'll see some support from the West.

I haven't forgot about the west feelings toward ALPA. Something had to break the stalemate. BTW. We are acting like a real union, with or without your participation. I personally would prefer with it, but the realities are what they are. Like I said "Maybe down the road".

 

[FL430]

Just wondering: What happens if USAPA negotiates a deal with Parker wheras longevity favors a big pay raise for the more senior ( presumably east ) guys with a 5 to 10 year duration and a 10 year Mississippi River fence. East guys could vote it in ( again because of a majority ) leaving west Captains making 124.00/hr airbus and east Captains making 170.00/hr on the same aircraft. If west guys dont pay dues they cant vote right? And if this contract does pass and we are in a transaction with United the CBA can be upheld for the duration of the contract, right? So it seems by not paying dues and not joining USAPA the west guys will be shooting themselves in the foot right?

With a downsizing even more questions arise - where will furloughs begin. I would think that with all the competition and pressure from WN out west in PHX and LAS that the downsizing will be most extreme there.

Too many questions and not enough answers - can someone shed some insight?

 

[exB717Flyer]

BTW. We are acting like a real union, with or without your participation.

If you were anything close to a real union you would realize that we already have a seniority list and it's time to focus on the future. A real union doesn't try to renegotiate something to deliberately disadvantage one pilot group. One way or another the Westies will not allow USAPA to touch the Nicolau list. You, sir, have my promise on that.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Please tell me again how this ruling was not legal. The rules were followed, the arbitrator ruled, the ruling was reviewed, no problem.

The only problem seems to be with the east group, they can't come up with a seniority list that anyone can agree on and they don't listen when the guy making the decision warns them to change their methodology or they won't like the outcome.

Are you pathological or what? You seem to have all the answers yet when the tough questions are asked you hide behind the legality of the ruling and the famous St. Nic BS.

READ THE POST!!!

I never said the Nicolau shame wasn't "legal." What I said was that "legal" means nothing until all avenues of appeal are exhausted. The fact that the east pilots are trying some novel means of appeal just absolutely sticks in your craw. It appears that it makes you really uncomfortable. Well....tough. That's how it works. Take a seat in the bleachers with the rest of us and see how it plays out. I have no choice, nor do you.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

If you were anything close to a real union you would realize that we already have a seniority list and it's time to focus on the future. A real union doesn't try to renegotiate something to deliberately disadvantage one pilot group. One way or another the Westies will not allow USAPA to touch the Nicolau list. You, sir, have my promise on that.

We don't have anything yet. Just a difference of opinion on a ALPA negotiated list. Where is ALPA again?

You're right, a REAL union would not disadvantage one pilot group over the other. What's happening now with the "List"? And one way or the other the stalemate is going to be broken. You have a promise on that too.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Take a seat in the bleachers with the rest of us and see how it plays out. I have no choice, nor do you.

You're right about that!! Good point.

 

[ChuckBewFarley]

I'm responding to his comments, I've gone back and it's windfall, windfall, St Nic, St Nic. I'm from the west and do not pretend to understand the MDA thing. :blink:

As for the rest it seems that we are going to rehash this over and over, St Bradford mentioned the Cornell group helping us find a solution while he was in PHX, let's see, the Pit talks, mediation, arbitration, binding arbitration, the Rice commission, Wye River and now Cornell. Where does it end. :unsure:

A compromise, well St Bradford and company said it will be DOH (with conditions and restrictions). The best was the comment "Seniority, it's like crew meals or anything else, it's all negotiable."

From where I stand I don't get a warm and fuzzy. :huh:

I think most are ready to move on. Rubbing our nose in your win is just making things worse.

After all we were promised things would be better, make it happen.

1 Geez man, please go back to the closed weekly threads and find the answer. How many times does this have to be rehashed? You have your side and MDA guys have theirs. The details have been discussed ad-nauseum.

2. For me it's the west, no surprise there I suppose. Under ALPA a new contract had absolutely zero chance for implementation with separate ratification voting....once again stalemate. Whose fault would it be? With Nic you say east, without Nic I say west. Stalemate again. The developing problem now is the lack of west participation in USAPA. But believe this, a new contract will be negotiated with or without your input. I prefer with, and maybe somewhere a compromise can be struck to put this behind us.

3. The same can be said of west posters. We each have our positions. Also discussed ad-nauseum. Do we really need to go keep going over the same territory?

 

[ChuckBewFarley]

READ THE POST!!!

I never said the Nicolau shame wasn't "legal." What I said was that "legal" means nothing until all avenues of appeal are exhausted. The fact that the east pilots are trying some novel means of appeal just absolutely sticks in your craw. It appears that it makes you really uncomfortable. Well....tough. That's how it works. Take a seat in the bleachers with the rest of us and see how it plays out. I have no choice, nor do you.

NYCBUS-

I guess I have no choice now.

Forming a new union to disenfranchise 1800 pilots for your own benefit is a novel quest. Hope the shoe is never on the other foot for you.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

1. As for the rest it seems that we are going to rehash this over and over, St Bradford mentioned the Cornell group helping us find a solution while he was in PHX, let's see, the Pit talks, mediation, arbitration, binding arbitration, the Rice commission, Wye River and now Cornell. Where does it end. :unsure:

2. A compromise, well St Bradford and company said it will be DOH (with conditions and restrictions). The best was the comment "Seniority, it's like crew meals or anything else, it's all negotiable."

3. From where I stand I don't get a warm and fuzzy. :huh:

4. I think most are ready to move on. Rubbing our nose in your win is just making things worse.

5. After all we were promised things would be better, make it happen.

1. As for Cornell, like I said before that's news to me. You may be right, I just don't know and haven't heard it mentioned.

2. I liked the comment also.

3. Oh well, maybe if you and the rest of the west would attempt to participate things might change for the better.

4. Not trying to rub anything. Never have. It sure would make life easier to be unified. Oh well........sigh...

5. In that case, how are you going to help? You want things better? So do I. But reality? Not going to happen in the present form. The biggest problem I see is the starting point. With west participation we might start at contract 2000. Without the west it might at LOA93. I have asked a lot of people this question, which would you prefer?

 

[nycbusdriver]

NYCBUS-

I guess I have no choice now.

Forming a new union to disenfranchise 1800 pilots for your own benefit is a novel quest. Hope the shoe is never on the other foot for you.

Not participating or paying dues means you are disenfranchising yourselves. Believe me. No on on the east wants to take ANYTHING from the west pilots that they didn't bring to the table. Moreover, the east does not want to keep the west from sharing in any growth, be it wide bodies or E190s. If USAPA could just get you guys to stop throwing bricks long enough to talk, you may actually see that this is a solvable problem that can be reasonably fair to everyone. Until the west come to the table where USAPA has already extended the chair, it cannot happen. Accept the fact (it IS a fact) that USAPA is your bargaining agent and wants to represent YOUR interests in a fair and balanced (I sound like Fox News) way and get involved. We are NOT your enemy.

I just hope SOMEBODY on the west has started a dialog with USAPA; you westies can't all be cantankerous old hotheads like we are on the USAviation Forums.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

FYI:

May 6, 2008

Fellow US Airways Pilots,

I am writing to you about a very serious matter relating to the cockpit jumpseat which is a major concern to all East and West Pilots. We have had a few reports of inappropriate jumpseat denials involving both East and West Captains.

I would ask that all US Airways pilots, regardless of their carrier of origin or domicile, refrain from using the jumpseat as a personal punitive tool. Actions such as these are a losing, short-sighted proposition that will create negative rippling effects on one of the few conveniences we all have as professional airline pilots.

If you have witnessed any such actions, please immediately contact the Professional Standards Committee and the Jumpseat committee with the details. Those Committee Chairmen and their contact information are available on the USAirlinePilots.org website.

Fraternally,

Stephen H. Bradford
President

 

[exB717Flyer]

I've always said politics should be kept out of the jumpseat. And I write the same thing on the AWAPPA message board. Hopefully this foolishness will pass.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

I've always said politics should be kept out of the jumpseat. And I write the same thing on the AWAPPA message board. Hopefully this foolishness will pass.

Lets hope so. With that I agree wholeheartedly.