Pilot labor thread 5/4-5/10

[osunut]

I am curious about something, so excuse my ignorance in not knowing all the details of the matter. I grew up around pilots (both military and commercial) my whole life and understand the seniority and sadly the mentality of many (note i said many, not all or most so don't bash! we all know those who think they are flying next to God himself, or herself for the ladies!)

All feelings aside, has USAPA elected a representatives for the PHX base? If not, why since the USAPA website states it is made from elected officials from each domicile.

Is the former West ALPA pilots paying dues to USAPA, if not why?

Here is my worry, whatever happens someone is not going to be happy and resentment will be there and it will linger for years to come.

Now one day both US and HP pilots will be sitting next to each other with 100+ people and staff members they are responsible for. Feelings build up, communication is next to nothing, someone forgets to do something and next thing you I am one of many people who are sitting with the family members.

This has happened before in the industry and at this rate going to happen again. It is sad that grown men and women have such deep feelings they are putting their selfishness ahead of their morals. We are what we think.

"All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts we make the world. Speak or act with an impure mind and trouble will follow you as the wheel follows the ox that draws the cart." -Buddha B)

My point is yes I have been around a long time, been screwed over by co-workers and company alike, yes I know of more skeletons in peoples offices around here than I care too and I am not particular to either side, but I just see this as dangerous.

Look, be the ox that moves things forward and not the wheel that just goes round and round wearing you down.

 

[Junebug172]

All feelings aside, has USAPA elected a representatives for the PHX base? If not, why since the USAPA website states it is made from elected officials from each domicile.

Is the former West ALPA pilots paying dues to USAPA, if not why?

Because it would be pointless. They get to initially pick a lackey to represent PHX pilots. And even with representation, our say would be moot since we're outnumbered.

And why pay dues when we don't have to. USAPA doesn't have Agency shop to cover the west pilots and will have to negotiate one with the company. Until then, we're all donating to AWAPPA instead of a scab union.

 

[NiceLandingCaptain]

osunut -

Not trying to be funny here (OK, just a little bit) the nuts that post here on this board, for the most part do not behave badly in public. We are professionals. Now having said that, what goes on inside the cockpit is far from "being in public." So, yes there is going to be lots of resentment - for a long, long time. Just look at NWA - the two pilot groups there have been suing each other for over twenty years. No one can say what the future holds for this pilot group. Distractions will occur within the cockpit. Will safety be jeopardized as a result? I don't think so. Most likely the result will be a very quiet four day trip where two guys spend a lot of time looking out the window. But the job will get done. Any acting out would most likely get one or the other of them fired. Management has their ways and will not be above setting a few examples to make sure everyone gets the hint.

 

[Leonidas]

I am curious about something, so excuse my ignorance in not knowing all the details of the matter. I grew up around pilots (both military and commercial) my whole life and understand the seniority and sadly the mentality of many (note i said many, not all or most so don't bash! we all know those who think they are flying next to God himself, or herself for the ladies!)

All feelings aside, has USAPA elected a representatives for the PHX base? If not, why since the USAPA website states it is made from elected officials from each domicile.

Is the former West ALPA pilots paying dues to USAPA, if not why?

Here is my worry, whatever happens someone is not going to be happy and resentment will be there and it will linger for years to come.

Now one day both US and HP pilots will be sitting next to each other with 100+ people and staff members they are responsible for. Feelings build up, communication is next to nothing, someone forgets to do something and next thing you I am one of many people who are sitting with the family members.

This has happened before in the industry and at this rate going to happen again. It is sad that grown men and women have such deep feelings they are putting their selfishness ahead of their morals. We are what we think.

"All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts we make the world. Speak or act with an impure mind and trouble will follow you as the wheel follows the ox that draws the cart." -Buddha B)

My point is yes I have been around a long time, been screwed over by co-workers and company alike, yes I know of more skeletons in peoples offices around here than I care too and I am not particular to either side, but I just see this as dangerous.

Look, be the ox that moves things forward and not the wheel that just goes round and round wearing you down.

Well just look at the "seasoned" easties safety record that should give you a clue at the caliber of scab we are dealing with.

MOD NOTE: What did we say about calling each other SCABS? This is a wind up post and just got the poster 7 days. Anyone else?
If I see that word once more the thread gets closed and THERE WILL NOT BE ANOTHER ONE ALLOWED.

 

[700UW]

That is uncalled for, the East had some crashes, one was a 737, proved to be a the actuator that effected every 737 made.

The 737 in LAX was ATC's fault.

The F28 in LGA was due to bad deicing holding times.

The CLT crash was due to windshear.

The 737 in LGA was attributed to Pilot error.

I am not a pilot, but I would trust any US/East Pilot with my life.

And your Statement is callous and you deserve time off for that.

At least US never had pilots fly drunk.

 

[MOC A320]

That is uncalled for, the East had some crashes, one was a 737, proved to be a the actuator that effected every 737 made.

The 737 in LAX was ATC's fault.

The F28 in LGA was due to bad deicing holding times.

The CLT crash was due to windshear.

The 737 in LGA was attributed to Pilot error.

I am not a pilot, but I would trust any US/East Pilot with my life.

And your Statement is callous and you deserve time off for that.

At least US never had pilots fly drunk.

The 2 pilots never flew the plane get your facts right and I can say I would trust either side pilots with my life.

 

[700UW]

Ok they didnt fly, but they plane was pushing back and ready to leave, their intent was to fly, so why were they convicted and jailed?

Cloyd, 47, and Hughes, 44, were arrested July 1, 2002, as their Phoenix-bound jet was being pushed back from its gate at Miami International Airport.

Police ordered the plane to turn back and arrested the pilots after security screeners smelled a strong odor of alcohol on Hughes, and Cloyd got in an argument over his attempts to bring aboard a cup of coffee.

The pilots had 14 beers between them the night before the flight, closing out their $122 bar tab at about 4:40 a.m. — roughly six hours before their flight was to depart. Hours later, they registered blood-alcohol levels above Florida's 0.08 legal limit.

The pilots maintained they were not operating the aircraft because the Airbus 319 was being pushed by a runway tug and its steering was disengaged at the time it was ordered back to the terminal. They were fired by America West after their arrests and lost their commercial pilot's licenses.

"All I can say is that we are very disappointed," said attorney James Rubin, who represents Hughes and declined comment on whether the pair would appeal.

Assistant State Attorney Deisy Rodriguez had called the defendants "stumbling, fumbling" drunks who put 117 passengers and crew in grave danger.

"We have protected some lives today," Rodriguez said after the verdict.

She cited testimony that both pilots performed flight checks for 30 minutes before the jet left the gate. When questioned by police on the day of their arrest, she said both pilots answered "yes" when asked if they had been operating an aircraft.

Judge David Young ordered both men held without bail and set sentencing for July 20.

A judge Thursday sentenced Two fired America West pilots to prison for operating a jetliner when drunk.

Pilot Thomas Cloyd, 47, of Peoria, Ariz., was sentenced to five years in prison. Miami-Dade Circuit Judge David Young said he had no sympathy for Cloyd, who had been on probation for a DUI just months before his arrest.

Co-pilot Christopher Hughes, 44, of Leander, Texas, was ordered to 2 ½ years in prison, 1 1/2 years of community control and a year of probation. He was also sentenced to community service and fined $5,000. He was also barred from operating an aircraft for five years.

 

[KeepUSdividedfromUnited]

Leonidas wrote,

"Well just look at the "seasoned" easties safety record that should give you a clue at the caliber of s**b we are dealing with"

That statement is completely unbecoming a professional airline pilot. I hope this poster is not a member of the profession. His attitude show no maturity and crosses a line that no individual should cross, taking pleasure from the pain and misfortune of others.

A true professional would try and learn the cause of accidents and incidents. While most people would think,"There but for the grace of God go I". This individual attitude is that it could never happen to him, unsettling at best.

Shame on you.

 

[pilot]

There is no professionalism out there. You wouldn't believe the childish stuff these guys are doing. And I do mean childish. The tactics are amazing and very revealing. And they are setting themselves up for serious criminal prosecution.

I'm very serious about this. No organization, union or otherwise, will stand by and overlook criminal tactics meant to harm individuals or interfere with safety of flight issues. This is some of what is going on.

A NMB vote on a new union took place. A new union was legally elected and not challenged by the former union.

Malicious and criminal behavior is now taking place and the federal authorities have been notified and supplied with the information, times and dates and suspects.

Disagreements among people are one thing. What these children have done is cross the line. And they going to be shocked when they get a knock on their door.

 

[Junebug172]

At least US never had pilots fly drunk.

Oooh, let me play too.

At least HP never had a pilot put a bullet through the side of his plane


At least HP never had a pilot taxi off into the dirt because he was trying to beat another aircraft to the gate.

 

[Edward]

Oooh, let me play too.

At least HP never had a pilot put a bullet through the side of his plane


At least HP never had a pilot taxi off into the dirt because he was trying to beat another aircraft to the gate.

Both of you enough of that.

 

[Richard]

What Edward said......

It stops now. If it doesn't we close the thread, and you will not be permitted a new thread for one week.
It's time to grow up people...

 

[luvthe9]

Oooh, let me play too.

At least HP never had a pilot put a bullet through the side of his plane


At least HP never had a pilot taxi off into the dirt because he was trying to beat another aircraft to the gate.

Grow up NAME DELETED BY MODERATOR

MODERATOR NOTE: So I guess you ALL can't read?

This poster just got 5 days.

Anyone else? You folks are pushing it......

 

[elixir]

I say shut the thread down for a month...it's ridiculous.

Before that happens, I just heard that a West FO was terminated for verbally attacking an East pilot at a gate...I don't know if this is old news, can anyone confirm this?

 

[EastUS]

actually what has happened on this property only shows ample evidence that aaa pilots are just as unreasonable in this merger as you were with united last time.

you guys act like there is no other simple solution but i fail to see what is so unreasonable with having the seniority to hold EXACTLY what you had pre-merger be it a capt seat an fo seat or a seat on you couch at home hoping to get recalled one day. And unlike some people who change there definition of what is right to suit a particular situation I would still want this if we were merging with jet blue and it put people ahead of me who were hired after me. cause they took a risk at a start up and it payed off for them. All of the guys that we got back off the street were just the ones who couldn't get on with southwest or airtran or continental. Those were the smart ones they just said no thanks when the hr lady called.

"i fail to see what is so unreasonable with having the seniority to hold EXACTLY what you had pre-merger be it a capt seat an fo seat or a seat on you couch at home hoping to get recalled one day." OK. Let's go with that for even a moment. UA's considering fleet reductions of an unknown total amount. I believe they've posted approx 30 aircraft likely to be parked thus far. Does anyone present imagine that the entire UA group would happily, and instantly agree that any people, potentially furloughed from fleet reductions, should then become permanently placed below your entire west group?..not to mention the east group as well?....due to some magical "Snapshot in Time?...that's yet to be taken?

LCC has aircraft on order. Should/Would that properly allow for some absurd gains for any/all of us via "Career Expectations" over the UA group of "Fellow Pilots"? I think NOT, but am all ears to hearing why that wouldn't be fully "reasonable" under the Alpo paradigm...anyone???