I would be willing to bet that there is more seniority in Tulsa than anywhere else. Look at the seniority list. I am also pretty sure that with 28 years, if it were an open bid (like it should be if the pay structure changes) I could get a bid at DFW. My point is that there is no way a 28 year guy should have to accept a new lower pay scale while a 15 year guy gets the top dollar. I should be able to bump that guy. That is what seniority is all about. If the shoe were on the other foot you would think so also. I know there would never be an open bid like that because it would cause a lot of moving around. But I'm sure someday there will be outsourcing on the line as well. All it will take is someone like Boeing to offer contract line maint. AA will jump at it. The only way to stop AA from completely destroying our way of life is to stick together, but it looks like that ain't gonna happen.
Outsourcing at AA
- Thread starter Duke787
- Start date
I don't think that anyone seriously thinks that a line mechanic is a higher form of life, and I appreciate the efforts that you and the rest of the 26%ers have made to educate and inform your coworkers in Tulsa, it must be a frustrating endeavor. Don't take it personally when line guys say "Tulsa", after all with the 26% that you helped provide if we had a few more NO votes from the line it could have been rejected. That said its not a stretch to say if Tulsa never existed the A&P profession would probably be better off. Tulsa doesn't deserve all the blame but they were a major factor in the concessions process that has destroyed the profession. The only reason why you don't seem to think that its already destroyed is because you live in a place where you can still live fairly well, our way of life has already been destroyed.
Bob. Sadly I think you are correct. If Tulsa never existed all AMTs might be better off. It all goes back to weak leadership here. I will not let the opinions of a few change the way I feel. I am proud to be a 26%er and I would go out there again tomorrow and hold a sign with my line buddies from DFW. Just wanted to give a couple holier than thou guys a little of their own medicine.
jimntx
Veteran
TWU informer
Veteran
- Nov 4, 2003
- 7,550
- 3,731
I have been with 4 FBO's prior to the airlines. 3 of the 4 were bought out by companies while I was there (at each of them as they were bought out) Every single time the wages were gutted for all employees (maintenance) and I mean gutted. Some employees were taking 50% pay cuts if they decided to stay. Most that were able left either prior to new pay cuts taking affect or very shortly afterwards. It seemed to be better (pay wise) to leave and start somewhere else, until they sold out. But every time the pay scales were gutted and people scattered. After mechanics fled (due to pay) all the FBO's were hurting for mechanics so they opted to bring in contractors at more pay than the permanent employees, and not just by a little bit. I remember being told "this is your new pay scale, take it, or you have the option to leave". I am 99.9% sure the employees at TIMCO will be experiencing the same outcome. Wonder if this would be a good time to try and organize outsourced maint at 3rd party FBO's? Good luck to the employees at TIMCO...
Show me the money
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- Jul 6, 2011
- 147
- 237
Here is a thought. Here at American we are making less than we were in 2003. What American is charging for an AMT to go look at someone else's airplane is much more than 2003. When they are getting paid for our services they are the first to say that our mechanics and their experience are worth top dollar. When it comes to paying us, the tune changes dramaticlly. Management bonuses keep going up with the excuse that we need to keep good people. This is the same group that Wall Street has said that if American is to survive they must go. Our problem (along with management) is not a line or an overhaul problem but representation problem. Our work is being sent out to lowest bidder and to coummunist slave labor countries. We need new representation that will work for mechanics run by mechanics, not people that have never had to sign for the work they have done on live flights.
Thomas Paine
Veteran
- Sep 4, 2003
- 583
- 569
How many AMTs does AA now have? There are now just 7845 heads in Title I, and only 6895 are AMTs, not necessarily A&Ps either, 3419 A&Ps are on the line. There are 949 very low paid OSMs and Cleaners included in the Title group. 30% of the DWH workforce is OSMs, where do you think the company is going to send work? OSM wages are below MRO wages. With the projected RIF in Tulsa of 300 AMTs that means Tulsa will be down to around 2500 AMTs and that will bring their ratio to around 27% OSMs. There will be more AMTs working the line than all of Overhaul. As the gap between our pay and benefits with our peers widens the gap between mechanics per airplane that Overspeed always boasts about continues to shrink. Videtich needs to go, he orchestrated the whole demise of our profession.
Thomas Paine
Veteran
- Sep 4, 2003
- 583
- 569
Most unions have an "open bid", we are the only ones that agreed to a Juniority list. Tulsa has a long history up putting up barriers (failing guys on the tests) to force line guys to the street while junior guys at Tulsa stayed on so we have worn those shoes and know exactly how it feels. Many of us have been in stations that closed, never heard anyone say how everyone should agree to concessions to "save" those stations from being closed, that's the way it is in this business. No guarantees. For some reason Tulsa gets to make believe that they are an exception to the rules that govern everyone else in this industry. Boeing Line maint? Lockheed used to have a Hangar at JFK and a lot of the old timers worked there. Sounds good, Boeing contracts are better than ours, they make more than we do and have better benefits. Most of us have enough time in and are old enough to keep our flight benefits so we really don't have much to lose. Could it happen? yes, but its no worse than what has already happened, it may even be better to be aligned with real union brothers in WA than RTW people who pretend to be Union in OK. We wouldn't be forced into it either because we would be out from under the RLA as well. Wasn't most of the Tulsa EB on TV with the notoriously anti worker Chamber of Commerce, AA and a bunch of Republican politicians urging Tulsa workers to accept a deal that would likely cost most of them their jobs in addition to massive concessions? You may feel that AA is destroying your way of life but all those YES votes that come out of Tulsa destroyed our way a long time ago. By sticking together what exactly do you mean? That we should rally behind Tulsa by taking work out of AFW or DFW or the line? Tulsa overwhelmingly voted in favor of exactly what's happening now. Should we agree to more concessions, maybe close all the Class II Stations as long as Tulsa stays open? Its one thing to say we are going to fight to save jobs, but its another to say that everyone should be willing to fight to make sure that jobs stay in one location at the expense of everyone else in every other location. Sorry if I seem unsympathetic and I know you have been a fighter but look around you, is it really worth saving? Come join us on the line, we can use fighters out here.OldGuy@AA said:
The fight to save Tulsa is over. Ream and Evie Rodriguez went around the system telling the line guys they needed to vote for this because it would allow the company to get rid of Tulsa. Ironically Tulsa voted in their own demise.
Even most of the company men on the line said "no way", it wasn't worth accepting this deal, which would last until 2018 or beyond if Videtich is still running things (he managed to stretch negotiations from 2007 till they filed BK a month prior to 2012 even though the members rejected a substandard TA in 2010). With the encouragement of Little, Gless, Videtich, Mark Richard , Sharon Levine and Tom Roth (none of whom had to work under the deal)Tulsa voted in language that would allow the company to outsource at least 35% of "spend". Who the hell uses "spend" as a criteria for outsourcing, and who is monitoring it? I'll tell you who-Videtich, as none of the locals have access to what is now considered to be "Confidential information". If its Confidential then how do you enforce it? We have to rely on Don Videtich, the same man who prevented us from moving the process towards getting a deal forward from 2007 till nearly 2012, the same guy who made sure that in addition to the concessions of 2003 we gave the company JLT and PLI which saved the company even more money and allowed them to get rid of even more mechanics, the same guy who made sure that AA got everything they wanted both in 2010 and in 2012, yes, thats who we have looking out for us. The guy who nobody voted for who rides around on A5 passes in First Class courtesy of a very appreciative AA management. The Locals cant grieve even if the company went over 35% because they don't have access to the info. Under prior contracts all the locals were sent a breakdown of total hours outsourced, not anymore, thanks to Don Videtich and his confidential maintenance spend, which encourages the company to outsource maintenance overseas, we don't really know how much they are spending on outsourcing or how many manhours are being outsourced-in other words how many potential jobs we lost. Maybe thats why he put it in there. I agree Videtich must go, if he serves any appointed capacity in the TWU it eliminates any possibility that the M&R membership will support this organization. Its not like he doesn't have a job to go back to, and he worked very hard to make it what it is.
Even most of the company men on the line said "no way", it wasn't worth accepting this deal, which would last until 2018 or beyond if Videtich is still running things (he managed to stretch negotiations from 2007 till they filed BK a month prior to 2012 even though the members rejected a substandard TA in 2010). With the encouragement of Little, Gless, Videtich, Mark Richard , Sharon Levine and Tom Roth (none of whom had to work under the deal)Tulsa voted in language that would allow the company to outsource at least 35% of "spend". Who the hell uses "spend" as a criteria for outsourcing, and who is monitoring it? I'll tell you who-Videtich, as none of the locals have access to what is now considered to be "Confidential information". If its Confidential then how do you enforce it? We have to rely on Don Videtich, the same man who prevented us from moving the process towards getting a deal forward from 2007 till nearly 2012, the same guy who made sure that in addition to the concessions of 2003 we gave the company JLT and PLI which saved the company even more money and allowed them to get rid of even more mechanics, the same guy who made sure that AA got everything they wanted both in 2010 and in 2012, yes, thats who we have looking out for us. The guy who nobody voted for who rides around on A5 passes in First Class courtesy of a very appreciative AA management. The Locals cant grieve even if the company went over 35% because they don't have access to the info. Under prior contracts all the locals were sent a breakdown of total hours outsourced, not anymore, thanks to Don Videtich and his confidential maintenance spend, which encourages the company to outsource maintenance overseas, we don't really know how much they are spending on outsourcing or how many manhours are being outsourced-in other words how many potential jobs we lost. Maybe thats why he put it in there. I agree Videtich must go, if he serves any appointed capacity in the TWU it eliminates any possibility that the M&R membership will support this organization. Its not like he doesn't have a job to go back to, and he worked very hard to make it what it is.
- Banned
- #133
Only thing that will allievate some of the pain in TUL is that if the merger goes through, US wants to close PIT heavy mtc and it has to move somewhere, CLT does has two open bays still.
FYI last 737-400 heavy check was done in CLT this week.
FYI last 737-400 heavy check was done in CLT this week.
Whats stopping them from moving it to Timco?
You are willing to sell out PIT for Tulsa?
I'd rather see PIT stay open, Pittsburg is a Union town, strong Union principles, not like Tulsa whose idea of Unionism is that if Tulsa is willing to take concessions, and they always have been, that everybody else has to support that decision and take the same or more concessions (the loss of Holidays and shift premiums affected the bottom line of the Line guys more than Tulsa) because they are the majority. One thing Ream said that was right, by voting in this deal Tulsa would no longer control the process.
You are willing to sell out PIT for Tulsa?
I'd rather see PIT stay open, Pittsburg is a Union town, strong Union principles, not like Tulsa whose idea of Unionism is that if Tulsa is willing to take concessions, and they always have been, that everybody else has to support that decision and take the same or more concessions (the loss of Holidays and shift premiums affected the bottom line of the Line guys more than Tulsa) because they are the majority. One thing Ream said that was right, by voting in this deal Tulsa would no longer control the process.
