Outsourcing at AA

[Bob Owens]

The TWU never said there would be no outsourcing. The contract clearly stated that CFPs would be outsourced. The statement that jobs were saved is when you compare what the ask was and what the reality is. AA wanted to got to 45% or what United, US, and Delta have which would have equated to 4,500 jobs approximately. The 35% cap brings us to about 2,500 jobs due to outsourcing. Any future job reductions will be directly related to new fleet maintenance requirements and not outsourcing.

45% of man hours vs 35% of spend, two different metrics, they didnt back down at all. If anything they got more, thanks to you. With the ability to outsource any where. At the rates paid in some of those places 35% of spend could be 70% of manhours or more. You also leave out that is RR backs out of TEASL they can change the "cap" to more than 45%. IIRC they project we will be below 7000 in a few years.

 

[Overspeed]

Newer aircraft these days have better technology and much improved structural assemblies. Fuselages now can go more hours between overhauls and systems are more reliable. With the new deals AA acquired with this new massive order many aircraft will not see any kind of major overhaul for several years. So when the 757's and MD-80's get replaced one for one with new aircraft what will AA do with all the extra heads in overhaul? Will AA create a MRO and start performing contract maintenance?
With the 767's and 777's being outsourced the only logical answer is a reduction of the head count for overhaul. I read something back when AA placed this massive order that when a aircraft is due for a heavy check AA will simply swap it out for a new replacement. I believe that was in reference to the Airbus aircraft not the Boeing ones. AA already has a deal to have the new generation 737's overhauls to be done by Boeing or some other company. So if this all goes into place where are the job savings the TWU promised if we voted YES?

The job savings was from reduction in outsourcing allowed under scope. The future aircraft work will go down but when it comes back up due to aging aircraft so does the associated jobs that go with insourcing 65% of maintenance spend. So jobs were saved in the near term in that fewer jobs were outsourced under the new scope clause and fewer jobs will outsourced under the maintenance spend cap in the future when the A320s, 787s and new 737NGs.

Keep in mind, under any scope clause if planes are new, they don't need an overhaul for at least six to seven years. That being said, you can't protect work that isn't there.

 

[Bob Owens]

The job savings was from reduction in outsourcing allowed under scope. The future aircraft work will go down but when it comes back up due to aging aircraft so does the associated jobs that go with insourcing 65% of maintenance spend. So jobs were saved in the near term in that fewer jobs were outsourced under the new scope clause and fewer jobs will outsourced under the maintenance spend cap in the future when the A320s, 787s and new 737NGs.

Keep in mind, under any scope clause if planes are new, they don't need an overhaul for at least six to seven years. That being said, you can't protect work that isn't there.

Under our old language the jobs were protected even if the work wasnt, better find work because you have to pay them either way. You voted in favor of eliminating that language. No jobs were saved, AA didnt have any place to send the work they have, but as the work goes away so will the jobs. You gave them all the time they needed to find places. The switch from 45% of manhours to 35% of spend was a slight of hand, a con job and its by no means whatsoever a hard cap, the contract is riddled with language that lets them exceeed that. You didnt save any jobs, you just destroyed everyones careers and made it harder for other mechanics at other carriers to recover.

 

[OldGuy@AA]

Overspeed said you can't protect work that isn't there and he is correct. But not only didn't you protect the work that IS here, you didn't protect any future work or any of us AMTs. When does AA write a new scope clause that states there is a difference in line and overhaul mechanics so the seniority from Tulsa can't bump to the field? That one is coming and it will be with the TWU's blessing. You know AA won't want all that bumping going on and the TWU doesn't care about AMTs.

 

[bigjets]

http://www.bizjourna...jection-in.html

Wait a second, my TWU rah rah guy said that the TWU saved OH !!!!!

MCI closed, AFW closed !!!

TUL will be a shell of it's former self in the next couple of years, according to the TWU presentation on why they are closing the line locals, but all the ramp locals are staying open.

But the TWU offsets that by having the worst mechanics contract (highest paid ramp) for the past 10 years and for the next 6-10 years. Remember USair likes to drag out negotiations too.

 

[bigjets]

The job savings was from reduction in outsourcing allowed under scope. The future aircraft work will go down but when it comes back up due to aging aircraft so does the associated jobs that go with insourcing 65% of maintenance spend. So jobs were saved in the near term in that fewer jobs were outsourced under the new scope clause and fewer jobs will outsourced under the maintenance spend cap in the future when the A320s, 787s and new 737NGs.

Keep in mind, under any scope clause if planes are new, they don't need an overhaul for at least six to seven years. That being said, you can't protect work that isn't there.

Talking about A319s

The company hasn’t specified where those new Airbus planes will be maintained. The company’s primary overhaul facility, with more than 6,000 employees, is located in Tulsa.

 

[Deleted member 14439]

Word from the Airbus reps and M&E Airbus instructors is and was the AA will not be doing the heavy checks on these airplanes. I got this info when I was in Airbus genfam in May. Guess it remains to be seen but it makes sense to me. IMHO Tul will continue to shrink. The ranks of the AMT at AA will continue to shrink. That's the reality of the situation as I see it. Prepare accordingly.

 

[787nightmare]

Word from the Airbus reps and M&E Airbus instructors is and was the AA will not be doing the heavy checks on these airplanes. I got this info when I was in Airbus genfam in May. Guess it remains to be seen but it makes sense to me. IMHO Tul will continue to shrink. The ranks of the AMT at AA will continue to shrink. That's the reality of the situation as I see it. Prepare accordingly.

 

[787nightmare]

Hey man, hope you're well....
You're exactly correct.
If I was check line mech, I think I'd make my way out to the line ASAP & start learning that side of it. TULE days are numbered. Inhouse OH in this nation is practically gone....
I'd bet my next check AA AMTs won't see ANY Abus, 787, & more/more dwindling 737 cks.
They WILL find places to get it done FAR cheaper.

 

[Deleted member 14439]

Hey man, hope you're well....
You're exactly correct.
If I was check line mech, I think I'd make my way out to the line ASAP & start learning that side of it. TULE days are numbered. Inhouse OH in this nation is practically gone....
I'd bet my next check AA AMTs won't see ANY Abus, 787, & more/more dwindling 737 cks.
They WILL find places to get it done FAR cheaper.

I`m at DWH and doing great. I really enjoy the change of pace from overhaul. I wish I was wrong but the trend thru out the industry is to outsource most overhaul.Heck we are even doing it to ourselves via the latest "OSM" letter allowing osms to work in the cabins in TUL. Our AMT list shrinks everyday it seems. Last time I looked we were under 8K in title I. Hope you are dong well, stay in touch.

 

[Chuck Schalk]

Many of us "NO" voters sent the warning flags to OH about the poor language of scope in the agreement and the dangling carrot theory. Well here we are.........

 

[Deleted member 14439]

Many of us "NO" voters sent the warning flags to OH about the poor language of scope in the agreement and the dangling carrot theory. Well here we are.........

Yep and now TUL will continue to shrink. They will be standing around wondering "how did this happen".

 

[Thomas Paine]

Word from the Airbus reps and M&E Airbus instructors is and was the AA will not be doing the heavy checks on these airplanes. I got this info when I was in Airbus genfam in May. Guess it remains to be seen but it makes sense to me. IMHO Tul will continue to shrink. The ranks of the AMT at AA will continue to shrink. That's the reality of the situation as I see it. Prepare accordingly.

IIRC 6500 by 2017. Most if not all losses fromoh

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

http://www.airlineforums.com/topic/56043-aar-to-open-new-aircraft-maintenance-facility-in-lake-charles-louisiana/#entry1019238

Watch out Tulsa. Can you match the pay that AAR will pay in Louisiana? Wll you go that low?

 

[amtide]

Will like to know when the 757 CFP is leaving. Suppose to be this summer. Anybodt know?