Outsourcing at AA
- Thread starter Duke787
- Start date
- Banned
- #138
The A330 is a Widebody, and ST Mobile Aerospace has plenty of room to do the work.
They have to fill the white spaces in the schedule since the 737 heavy checks are done.
And UA, CO and DL fly their widebodies to Haeco in HKG for their overhaul.
DL even sends them to Asia for interior mods instead of doing it in-house.
They have to fill the white spaces in the schedule since the 737 heavy checks are done.
And UA, CO and DL fly their widebodies to Haeco in HKG for their overhaul.
DL even sends them to Asia for interior mods instead of doing it in-house.
- Banned
- #139
Company base maintenance employees will perform fifty
17 (50%) percent or greater of all aircraft base maintenance work,
18 inclusive of narrow and wide-body aircraft, as follows: On an
19 annualized basis, for every billable hour of work from aircraft base
20 maintenance vendors performing Company base maintenance
21 work; modification work; scheduled drop in maintenance; and any
22 drop-in maintenance relating to fuselage damage or any other
23 damage, there will be an equal or greater number of paid hours to
24 Company base maintenance employees. This includes Company
25 Lead Mechanics, Mechanics, Inspectors, Utility and Lead Utility
26 (combined) assigned to base maintenance.
The Company, no later than January 31 of each year, will
2 provide to the union and/or the union’s advisor, documentation
3 necessary to verify the Company’s compliance with outsourcing
4 provisions including a summary of the previous calendar year’s
5 base maintenance paid hours and vendor airframe base
6 maintenance billed hours. On an ongoing basis the Company will
7 provide to the Union no later than the end of the following month a
8 summary of the previous month’s base maintenance vendor’s
9 billable hours including tail numbers of the aircraft.
10
11 In any year where the vendor billed hours are more than
12 fifty (50%) percent of the total combined vendor billed hours and
13 the Company base maintenance paid hours, such deficit hours will
14 be added to the current calendar year required company base
15 maintenance paid hours.
16
17 The Company will not furlough to the street any Base
18 Mechanic who is active as of the effective date of this agreement
19 provided such employee exercises their seniority to the fullest
20 extent. (Subject to force majeure provisions as described in Article
21 5.F and 20.D.2)
22 The Company shall maintain a minimum headcount of six
23 hundred seventy-five (675) active Base Maintenance Lead
24 Mechanics, Mechanics, Inspectors, Lead Utility and Utility
25 employees combined. (Subject to force majeure provisions as
26 described in Article 5.F and 20.D.2.)
27
28 The Company may continue to outsource the East 737
29 scribe work ongoing and such work will count towards the vendor
30 hours for the fifty (50%) percent calculation.
17 (50%) percent or greater of all aircraft base maintenance work,
18 inclusive of narrow and wide-body aircraft, as follows: On an
19 annualized basis, for every billable hour of work from aircraft base
20 maintenance vendors performing Company base maintenance
21 work; modification work; scheduled drop in maintenance; and any
22 drop-in maintenance relating to fuselage damage or any other
23 damage, there will be an equal or greater number of paid hours to
24 Company base maintenance employees. This includes Company
25 Lead Mechanics, Mechanics, Inspectors, Utility and Lead Utility
26 (combined) assigned to base maintenance.
The Company, no later than January 31 of each year, will
2 provide to the union and/or the union’s advisor, documentation
3 necessary to verify the Company’s compliance with outsourcing
4 provisions including a summary of the previous calendar year’s
5 base maintenance paid hours and vendor airframe base
6 maintenance billed hours. On an ongoing basis the Company will
7 provide to the Union no later than the end of the following month a
8 summary of the previous month’s base maintenance vendor’s
9 billable hours including tail numbers of the aircraft.
10
11 In any year where the vendor billed hours are more than
12 fifty (50%) percent of the total combined vendor billed hours and
13 the Company base maintenance paid hours, such deficit hours will
14 be added to the current calendar year required company base
15 maintenance paid hours.
16
17 The Company will not furlough to the street any Base
18 Mechanic who is active as of the effective date of this agreement
19 provided such employee exercises their seniority to the fullest
20 extent. (Subject to force majeure provisions as described in Article
21 5.F and 20.D.2)
22 The Company shall maintain a minimum headcount of six
23 hundred seventy-five (675) active Base Maintenance Lead
24 Mechanics, Mechanics, Inspectors, Lead Utility and Utility
25 employees combined. (Subject to force majeure provisions as
26 described in Article 5.F and 20.D.2.)
27
28 The Company may continue to outsource the East 737
29 scribe work ongoing and such work will count towards the vendor
30 hours for the fifty (50%) percent calculation.
So does AA. Tell me do you think your guys are willing to adopt our contract? We have the two crappiest contracts in the Industry, combined it will be one big giant turd. While it still looks like its going to happen I'm still not in favor of the merger.700UW said:
Interesting, and I would say that your 50% cap is probably more restrictive and effective at protecting your members than the 35% subject to various exclusions language that Don Videtich crafted. Our language allows them to layoff anywhere. OK, I see protections for current base workers, naturally headcount will decline with attrition, but what language do you have in place for Line maintenance?700UW said:
- Banned
- #142
The 50% is more restrictive because its just heavy maintenance billable hours, nothing else, no line, not the entire budget, like you have at AA.
Line Language:
(A) When an aircraft (which is owned and/or operated by US
11 Airways, Inc.), is engaged in a charter flight off the Company
12 system. It is the Company's intent not to schedule maintenance at
13 these points and major problems will be handled by sending our
14 own maintenance personnel unless local restrictions prohibit this.
15
16 (B) It is not the Company's intent to perform scheduled
17 maintenance at locations other than US Airways maintenance
18 bases except that daily checks and unscheduled aircraft
19 maintenance may be
Line maintenance stations will include at a minimum BOS, CLT, DCA, LGA, PHL, PHX, LAS, LAX and at least seven (7) other stations as determined by the Company.
All aircraft line maintenance work, including phase
32 checks and lower level checks above a daily check (e.g. A & B
33 checks, overnight checks, weekly checks and unscheduled drop in
34 maintenance), preformed by base maintenance employees will not
35 be included as Company base maintenance hours for the purposes
36 of this provision.
It is not the Company's intent to perform scheduled
17 maintenance at locations other than US Airways maintenance
18 bases except that daily checks and unscheduled aircraft
19 maintenance may be accomplished by a vendor at non20
maintenance stations.
Line Language:
(A) When an aircraft (which is owned and/or operated by US
11 Airways, Inc.), is engaged in a charter flight off the Company
12 system. It is the Company's intent not to schedule maintenance at
13 these points and major problems will be handled by sending our
14 own maintenance personnel unless local restrictions prohibit this.
15
16 (B) It is not the Company's intent to perform scheduled
17 maintenance at locations other than US Airways maintenance
18 bases except that daily checks and unscheduled aircraft
19 maintenance may be
Line maintenance stations will include at a minimum BOS, CLT, DCA, LGA, PHL, PHX, LAS, LAX and at least seven (7) other stations as determined by the Company.
All aircraft line maintenance work, including phase
32 checks and lower level checks above a daily check (e.g. A & B
33 checks, overnight checks, weekly checks and unscheduled drop in
34 maintenance), preformed by base maintenance employees will not
35 be included as Company base maintenance hours for the purposes
36 of this provision.
It is not the Company's intent to perform scheduled
17 maintenance at locations other than US Airways maintenance
18 bases except that daily checks and unscheduled aircraft
19 maintenance may be accomplished by a vendor at non20
maintenance stations.
Are all USAIRWAYS maintenance station in the US and staffed by IAM represented workers? AA has mechanics overseas, some such as those in Europe, earn a lot more than us and have better benefits as well, they can schedule up to 15% of line maintenance spend overseas and we have no language that says which stations will remain TWU.700UW said:
- Banned
- #145
The only thing done in Europe is the ETOPS check, US uses Monarch and AA's mechanics overseas to perform the ETOPS check before it leaves back to the states. US doesnt have mechanics based in Europe.
All line and base stations in the US are staffed with only IAM represented AMTs.
All line and base stations in the US are staffed with only IAM represented AMTs.
From what I've read HKG has some space for widebodies but really isn't interested in investing in space to do narrowbodies from the US. Besides flying an airplane over there empty takes a huge bite out of any savings, especially when you have guys on payroll you cant layoff right here. -No longer applies to AA because we gave up our job security language, and we aren't allowed to see the reports on outsourcing-only the appointed Don Videtich gets to see them,.700UW said:
HAECO can buy TIMCO, but HAECO will face the same problem TIMCO has in that they cant retain talent here in the US, even in a recession. Maybe they bought TIMCO to eliminate MRO capacity, if so that's OK as well, because it means higher prices for OH. As Overspeed has pointed out many times many of those guys are unlicensed therefore removing that work will have minimal impact on the supply of A&P mechanics. Remember, volume of work, if you have the volume of work it makes sense to do your own overhaul. With the consolidation of the airline passenger industry and the elimination of competition between the MROs I suspect that other carriers will look for some of the concessions that we gave 20 years ago to bring work back in house, hopefully the other mechanics in the industry don't fall for it and resist because whether they give in or not the result will be the same as far as headcount. Work will come back in house, maybe not all of it but more than enough to put demand above supply for A&P mechanics.
Our "contract" allows AA's overseas mechanics to do anything they want them to do over there, A-checks, mods etc. There is no limit. AA could even open up their own OH facility in South America if they wanted to and send our work there. AA is allowed to send all there outsourced work overseas if they choose to. That's the language our boy Don Videtich crafted for the company. As you can imagine even if the 35% spend cap was real that would allow them to outsource a lot more than 50% of manhours. That's why we said go ahead and abrogate and lets continue to fight them, the pilots voted NO and had things in their contract changed. I believe they still have a better contract than US pilots. I'm sure Overspin will come and claim that the total for concessions did not change, but the fact is the numbers that make up the total can be changed because its all BS anyway, the company put understated values on some things and overstated values on others and simply makes the figure come out to what they want it to be for the press release.
Here's another kicker, we have already gone from 12500 to around 9300 for our contract group (Title I and II) . The company has started outsourcing the 767 and they are getting rid of MD-80s. and word is will reduce headcount in Tulsa by around 400 guys a year right up until the end of the contract. So by 2018 Tulsa most likely will only have around 1700 people left, 650 of them very low paid OSMs that earn less than TIMCO wages, that's less than the number of mechanics AA will employ in the Dallas Fort Worth area. So we will have at best less than 6000 mechanics by the time this contract becomes amendable. We will have less than 10 mechanics per airplane, count only A&P mechanics at A&P rates of pay and it drops to around 7. by the time this contract becomes amendable at best we will only have around 4200 A&Ps. WE DID NOT CAPTURE THE VALUE OF THESE JOB LOSSES JUST LIKE IN 2003 WHICH BROUGHT US FROM 18000 to 12500, THE COMPANY GOT ALL THe EXTRA HEADS FOR FREE. On top of that Don Videtich and his appointed posse went around promoting JLT and PLI, programs designed to maximize productivity with no return for our members, in fact it allowed the company to insource more work while still eliminating heads faster than the rate of fleet reduction. This was outside of the contract, but Don made sure to include language in this deal that made participation in these zero gain programs part of the contract. Between JLT and PLI we saved the company over $500 million and got NOTHING for it.
If the goal was 20% savings and we are losing 50% of the heads then we had roughly 30% left over for raises, the restoration of Vacation, sick time, Holidays, Shift differentials etc. Ok I'm sure that Overspin will cite the fact that the savings wont actually materialize until 2018, so the actual savings would be less, but the fact is that's more due to the fact that AA doesn't have anyplace to send the MD-80s, than the language. If we give them the language for the savings and they are unable through no fault of ours to capitalize on it should we lose the value? Should we give guaranteed savings even though we have no control? Just like in 2003, we gave much more than the company was asking for, we got credit for 20% but in the end gave 50%. In 2003 we got credit for $320 million and gave several times that figure.
That headcount ratio per airplane is with multiple fleet types (including widebodies) and ETOPs operations, which as Overspin has admitted generates more headcount than say a Southwest Operation, which also generates lower RPMs per aircraft. So our numbers as far as productivity will be around the same as SWA but our pay will be much, much less, we will get a much, much smaller 401K match, we will have much, much less vacation, continue to work Holidays for no extra pay, or half pay extra at best, less sick time, less IOD time, no allowances for tools etc, no retiree medical, very expensive current medical, etc etc.
The fact is that Don Videtich along with the other people Jim Little hired, Sharon Levine, Mark Richard and even Tom Roth, crafted this horrible, horrible deal, and through fear and lies they managed to get most of the Title II guys, Tulsa and STL to support this deal and get it past the committee, every A&P on the committee except Charlie Meyers of STL voted against it, and then they worked with anti-labor forces in Tulsa to scare the Tulsa membership over the cliff. It is only now they realize what they did.
Here's another kicker, we have already gone from 12500 to around 9300 for our contract group (Title I and II) . The company has started outsourcing the 767 and they are getting rid of MD-80s. and word is will reduce headcount in Tulsa by around 400 guys a year right up until the end of the contract. So by 2018 Tulsa most likely will only have around 1700 people left, 650 of them very low paid OSMs that earn less than TIMCO wages, that's less than the number of mechanics AA will employ in the Dallas Fort Worth area. So we will have at best less than 6000 mechanics by the time this contract becomes amendable. We will have less than 10 mechanics per airplane, count only A&P mechanics at A&P rates of pay and it drops to around 7. by the time this contract becomes amendable at best we will only have around 4200 A&Ps. WE DID NOT CAPTURE THE VALUE OF THESE JOB LOSSES JUST LIKE IN 2003 WHICH BROUGHT US FROM 18000 to 12500, THE COMPANY GOT ALL THe EXTRA HEADS FOR FREE. On top of that Don Videtich and his appointed posse went around promoting JLT and PLI, programs designed to maximize productivity with no return for our members, in fact it allowed the company to insource more work while still eliminating heads faster than the rate of fleet reduction. This was outside of the contract, but Don made sure to include language in this deal that made participation in these zero gain programs part of the contract. Between JLT and PLI we saved the company over $500 million and got NOTHING for it.
If the goal was 20% savings and we are losing 50% of the heads then we had roughly 30% left over for raises, the restoration of Vacation, sick time, Holidays, Shift differentials etc. Ok I'm sure that Overspin will cite the fact that the savings wont actually materialize until 2018, so the actual savings would be less, but the fact is that's more due to the fact that AA doesn't have anyplace to send the MD-80s, than the language. If we give them the language for the savings and they are unable through no fault of ours to capitalize on it should we lose the value? Should we give guaranteed savings even though we have no control? Just like in 2003, we gave much more than the company was asking for, we got credit for 20% but in the end gave 50%. In 2003 we got credit for $320 million and gave several times that figure.
That headcount ratio per airplane is with multiple fleet types (including widebodies) and ETOPs operations, which as Overspin has admitted generates more headcount than say a Southwest Operation, which also generates lower RPMs per aircraft. So our numbers as far as productivity will be around the same as SWA but our pay will be much, much less, we will get a much, much smaller 401K match, we will have much, much less vacation, continue to work Holidays for no extra pay, or half pay extra at best, less sick time, less IOD time, no allowances for tools etc, no retiree medical, very expensive current medical, etc etc.
The fact is that Don Videtich along with the other people Jim Little hired, Sharon Levine, Mark Richard and even Tom Roth, crafted this horrible, horrible deal, and through fear and lies they managed to get most of the Title II guys, Tulsa and STL to support this deal and get it past the committee, every A&P on the committee except Charlie Meyers of STL voted against it, and then they worked with anti-labor forces in Tulsa to scare the Tulsa membership over the cliff. It is only now they realize what they did.
