Outsourcing at AA

[Rogallo]

So you guys, will do to Tulsa, what Tulsa has been doing to you for years? I know you speak the truth. But the only difference is you become the self serving instead of Tulsa. Nice Unionism, and the basis of the TWU anti-AMFA fear campaign all along.

Unionism does not exist at AA M&E. Its an IGM workplace. Tulsa has voted for what is best for Tulsa for years now and in the future the line guys will vote for what's best for them. The shoe will eventually be on the other foot!! Harsh Reality!

 

[bigjets]

So you guys, will do to Tulsa, what Tulsa has been doing to you for years? I know you speak the truth. But the only difference is you become the self serving instead of Tulsa. Nice Unionism, and the basis of the TWU anti-AMFA fear campaign all along.

 
You don't like transfer to a line station !

 

[TWU informer]

Unionism does not exist at AA M&E. Its an IGM workplace. Tulsa has voted for what is best for Tulsa for years now and in the future the line guys will vote for what's best for them. The shoe will eventually be on the other foot!! Harsh Reality!

Then "save the profession" is nothing more than a false mantra, and changing unions would be a complete waste of time and effort.

 

[bigjets]

Then "save the profession" is nothing more than a false mantra, and changing unions would be a complete waste of time and effort.

You're right the TWU has done so much for the profession, OSM's, worst contract in industry. etc, etc, etc, 
 
Let's not forget the weakness the TWU shows by wanting to joint represent with the IAM, or having to conspire with AA and IBT, to block out AMFA. How about the TWU just takes an honest vote to see if the dues paying membership think the TWU is worth keeping. I think we all know how that would turn out. Doesn't say much for the TWU when the only reason they're on property is by devious means.
 
How many jobs are being outsourced next year  with the TWU representing us? 

 

[iluvaa]

So you guys, will do to Tulsa, what Tulsa has been doing to you for years? I know you speak the truth. But the only difference is you become the self serving instead of Tulsa. Nice Unionism, and the basis of the TWU anti-AMFA fear campaign all along.

i helped get a few cards signed in TUL but that support is over not from me and I will in courage people not to sign.

 

[MetalMover]

Then "save the profession" is nothing more than a false mantra, and changing unions would be a complete waste of time and effort.

Do you deny the attitude towards the line over the past 30 years on the part of Tulsa....?
I got news for you my good man....Tulsa will be greatly diminished NOT because  the line guys might dish out a little payback, But because the TWU agreed to yet another deal that allows them to outsource even more. I believe Schalk and Owens tried telling the Tulsa guys that  many times in the past.
Another negative effect on Tulsa is the diminished need for overhaul on new aircraft.
All the new Airbuses will be treated like a long term lease and will be gone when the time goes for the heavy check.
 
So, I would agree with you that changing unions would be a waste of time.

 

[swamt]

Do you deny the attitude towards the line over the past 30 years on the part of Tulsa....?
I got news for you my good man....Tulsa will be greatly diminished NOT because  the line guys might dish out a little payback, But because the TWU agreed to yet another deal that allows them to outsource even more. I believe Schalk and Owens tried telling the Tulsa guys that  many times in the past.
Another negative effect on Tulsa is the diminished need for overhaul on new aircraft.
All the new Airbuses will be treated like a long term lease and will be gone when the time goes for the heavy check.
 
So, I would agree with you that changing unions would be a waste of time.

Send this post to overspin...

 

[TWU informer]

i helped get a few cards signed in TUL but that support is over not from me and I will in courage people not to sign.

What is going to happen will happen regardless of union on the property. The AMFA Consitution is superior to the TWU's and the TWU should be punished and removed for 30+ years of lies and concessions. I will still support AMFA, you missed the point.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

I still believe AMP is a better choice. AMFA from my point of view may be decent now but, in time they will still morph into what TWU is today. I think having a UNION of American Airlines employees only is a far better solution.
 
Before you decide that a craft UNION is the way to go perhaps you should do a little research on the IBEW. Sounds like the same crap to me.
 
A case docket
https://www.casetext.com/case/parks-v-international-brotherhood-of-electrical-wkrs/

 

[eolesen]

No they are pretty much dried up. SWA may not see it because they can pick who they want from competitors but the places where these mechanics are coming from see it already. Nearly every mechanics AA hired in NY was out of Eagle, not off the street, they aren't out there. The mechanics that were on the street found jobs in other industries and they aint coming back-EVER.Other industries that can use the same skillsets are hiring away what little comes out of A&P schools. On top of that over the past five years I've seen several of my 20plus year peers leave the industry to go work for Con Edison, the MTA and other industries, yes just up and quit and walked away from a career where they invested up to 30 years, they were not laid off and had good seniority, just had enough of the BS.

Bob, I'm sure that's the case in places like NYC, CHI and LAX, which are high cost of living, and also have higher paying jobs from utility companies, etc.

But that's not the case in the lower cost of living areas where the MRO's are setting up shop. Far fewer opportunities, and it wouldn't surprise me to see some of the MRO's setting up their own feeder schools. Some industries have set up in-house schools which pay for the training as long as you work for them (tuition payments are deferred as long as you stay employed, and zero out over time). The model works pretty well in the medical field, and some airlines already use it for pilots. Sure, it does resemble indentured servitude to some, but if you have a guaranteed job and get paid for your training, it's not a bad option for areas with poor employment opportunities...
 

Without the dream of ending up with a good paying job at an airline there is no incentive to accept what the MROs offer since the experience they offer is of no value, with wages that suck on top of that workers will go elsewhere.

Possibly, but if you like the lifestyle in IND, HSV, GSO, OKC, DLH, etc., I'm sure that is incentive enough. It's certainly been the incentive for a fair number of guys in TUL. Your paycheck only goes so far in NYC. Your total living expenses in IND or DLH would probably be close to what housing alone would cost in NYC or SoCal...
 

Sometimes companies buy companies to eliminate a competitor, decrease capacity and increase the price. I suspect that's why HAECO bought Timco.

Yep, pretty much the same thing I said a couple days ago: eliminate a bottom feeder, and improve your margins.

 

[bigjets]

 
I still believe AMP is a better choice. AMFA from my point of view may be decent now but, in time they will still morph into what TWU is today. I think having a UNION of American Airlines employees only is a far better solution.
 
Before you decide that a craft UNION is the way to go perhaps you should do a little research on the IBEW. Sounds like the same crap to me.
 
A case docket
https://www.casetext.com/case/parks-v-international-brotherhood-of-electrical-wkrs/
 
 
 
I think that line mechs will vote for AMFA over AMP, basically because AMP comes out of TULE, and how well have the line mechs done under a TULE majority?

 

[AirlineKid]

I know this thread is about MX but what about the customer service group?  I knew that AMR outsourced the American Eagle/Connection gate and ramp agents to AE in hubs/focus cities but I was shocked to see that they even outsourced the lobby/kiosk as well!  I was in LGA and they had some AA employees behind the ticket counters but a vendor was assisting pax in the lobby and when using the kiosks.  Hopefully the merger will stop some of this.  Thoughts? Does this happen at other hubs like DFW or MIA too?

 

[eolesen]

How is Eagle/Connection handling their own flights considered outsourcing? Their metal, their staffing decision...

AA's been using outsourced agents at the bag drops and as lobby assistants for years. The bagdrop agents are essentially skycaps without a hat & behind a counter... That's been done in larger cities since 1994, so good luck stopping what's been "past practice" for almost 20 years.

 

[700UW]

Past practice means nothing for non-union employees.

 

[Bob Owens]

So you guys, will do to Tulsa, what Tulsa has been doing to you for years? I know you speak the truth. But the only difference is you become the self serving instead of Tulsa. Nice Unionism, and the basis of the TWU anti-AMFA fear campaign all along.

Actually we would do the opposite, we would drag their wages up and get them better benefits. This is the airline industry, preserve the compensation at all costs because demand ebbs and flows. Keep it a job worth coming back to but never give concessions for the false promise that it will save jobs. Seniority was sought for a reason other than bidding. Eventually everyone gets called back if they are willing to move.