A&P schools have to be certified by the FAA,. Not sure but I think the Instructors have to be A&Ps as well. All of mine were. There is no quick fix, why do you think the FAA backed off on duty time limits? They don't want to reduce the number of hours available. There is still a nursing shortage so it doesn't appear to be working as well as you claim in the medical field. I doubt the average age of Nurses is over 50 like with A&Ps. Most of the MROs had already set up shop in those locations years ago and they are all having trouble attracting talent in those areas. Setting up schools drives up overhead and good luck forcing people to stay after they train them. The licenses are issued by the FAA, and are National, not issued by the states like Medical licenses. Sure they may pull that FAR off the shelf that would allow carriers to issue their own licenses but once again, the skillsets are portable to other industries that are usually easier to get to and offer better wages and working conditions. Some have resorted to hiring illegal aliens and not doing background or drug testing. True they don't need to hire A&Ps but at the end of the day even the customer-the airline, is going to want some sort of quality control. Sometimes they do actually learn. I recall a few years back when AA decided to outsource the airbus engines, sure they got them done cheap but half the time we hung the engines we ended up taking them back off without the aircraft even taking a flight. I recall opening them up and having to double check the paperwork thinking that we opened up and engine that was to be shipped out for OH instead of receiving one that was. Sometimes saving money can be costly.eolesen said:
Outsourcing at AA
- Thread starter Duke787
- Start date
About 50 % of the students who enter an A&P actually end up graduating. That being said, all those who graduate do not end up getting an A&P license.
The A&P schools work hard to keep the students from dropping out, however the students have many different reasons for leaving.
I believe that the college dropout rate is pretty much the same
The A&P schools work hard to keep the students from dropping out, however the students have many different reasons for leaving.
I believe that the college dropout rate is pretty much the same
Overspeed
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- Jun 27, 2011
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It's important to note that FAR 121 carriers and 145 repair stations do not require that all maintenance must be done by a certificate holder. Many repair stations, overhaul bases, and FBOs use unlicensed mechanics to do aircraft work because the FAR's allow it. Look at AMECO in China, Aeroman in El Salvador, or AAR in the US. True school enrollment is down and many people go to non-aviation related fields that pay more and offer more favorable working environments like utilities, tech industry, and others. The industry does need to reflect on how they will address the global shortfall of technical workers. Revamping Part 65, 121, and 145 would address a lot of these problems by bring the regulations out of the late 1960s and in to the current century.DNTULSA said:
MetalMover
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- Sep 16, 2013
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While we're at it, why don't we have McDonald's workers start maintaining aircraft. They way they clean those ice cream machines and friers, I'm sure they could easily tear down a jet engine and put it back together again.Overspeed said:
What is needed is the strenghtening of regulations so safety is also improved.
How about this novel approach? Make this career worthwhile again and young people might consider it.
Overspeed
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- Jun 27, 2011
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MetalMover said:
All the One World partners are outsourcing overhaul. http://www.theguardian.com/business/2013/nov/08/qantas-will-close-avalon-maintenance-base-with-loss-of-300-jobs
eolesen
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- Jul 23, 2003
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Guess you didn't read too closely -- QF's operation at Avalon was already a mostly outsourced operation... They had ~50 employees overseeing the work done by ~250 contractor technicians. The QF employees will either move to BNE or one of the line stations.
MetalMover
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Keep in mind most of the outsourcing issue involves the heavy checks. Most low cost carriers and post bankruptcy legacyhave their own line mechanics throughout out their respective systems. The brunt of airlines' maintenance costs are more heavy maintenance or overhaul related.
With new aircraft and their technological advances having increased overhaul time, it is becoming more likely that airlines will simply turn their aircraft in for new ones went it comes time for the major expense.
With new aircraft and their technological advances having increased overhaul time, it is becoming more likely that airlines will simply turn their aircraft in for new ones went it comes time for the major expense.
La Li Lu Le Lo
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- May 29, 2010
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I know for a fact that companies that require diesel mechanic are recruiting at these A&P schools pretty heavily. The railroads were at one time gunning for laid of mechanics.
There was a training program right here in Tulsa training welding, diesel mechanic, CNC machining, CDL-A and CDL-B.for free on a government grant because there is a shortage.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Transportation-Connections-WorkAdvance/205013246277439?group_id=0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1v3avAKm4ps
Posted June 24th 2013
THE END IS NEAR! WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR? This is the last week to sign up for our FREE trainings. CNC Machining, CDL-A, CDL-B, Diesel Mechanics and Welding.
Posted September 25th 2013
Congrats to our diesel mechanic students who had their first day of class last night!
Posted November 7th 2013
Do you want to advance your career in aviation? Call us today at 918-442-2200 to learn about our free aviation training opportunity!
This is my question. With the looming layoffs at American Airlines maintenance base why is the local government providing aviation training? Think that one over for a while.
There was a training program right here in Tulsa training welding, diesel mechanic, CNC machining, CDL-A and CDL-B.for free on a government grant because there is a shortage.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Transportation-Connections-WorkAdvance/205013246277439?group_id=0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1v3avAKm4ps
Posted June 24th 2013
THE END IS NEAR! WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR? This is the last week to sign up for our FREE trainings. CNC Machining, CDL-A, CDL-B, Diesel Mechanics and Welding.
Posted September 25th 2013
Congrats to our diesel mechanic students who had their first day of class last night!
Posted November 7th 2013
Do you want to advance your career in aviation? Call us today at 918-442-2200 to learn about our free aviation training opportunity!
This is my question. With the looming layoffs at American Airlines maintenance base why is the local government providing aviation training? Think that one over for a while.
Kev3188
Veteran
I agree. Now the question is how do we make that a reality- not just for A&P's, but for the trades in general?MetalMover said:
What's that your final death throws against the profession? Lower standards so the industry can broaden the pool of workers and keep wages low. You are despicable. We remember FAR 66 and what they were planning to do and we should start preparing ourselves to resist any move the FAA would make to reintroduce it. Creating a shortage by driving down wages should not be an excuse to ruin the profession and allow the carriers to take control and ownership of the process for the certification of Aircraft mechanics.Overspeed said:
True that repair shops don't require A&Ps but the fact is they hire as many as they can get, and the reason why they are able to pay as little as they do is because many who invested in getting an A&P are willing to tolerate the miserly compensation (which is getting pretty close to what guys like you have established at AA) to gain experience so they can get a decent paying job, well now that that pool has pretty much dried up the MROs are having trouble not only getting A&Ps but its even less likely that someone who invested nothing but has skills will stay where they don't pay well or move his family to the middle of nowhere to work in one of those shops. The shortage of skills is not confined to this industry, there is no surplus of mechanics in any industry anymore.
