Time for Line Stations to break away.

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

No they would not. Historically even stations like MIA, ORD and DFW have a high percentage of "No" votes to concessionary contracts. The company and the International bank on Tulsa passing the vote and in the past made deals to keep the operation running on the line.

In 1995 the concessionary contract only passed by around 70 votes, taken seperately it was an overwhelming "NO" from the line stations.

In 2003 the concesionary contract passed by only 700 votes, it was overwhelmingly rejected by the line stations, in fact if you take out MCI it would have been rejected.
The inequity is in not having a substantial compensation differential between Oh and the line.For the majority of OH their airline job is like any other 9 to 5 job with weekends and holidays off. Their job does not require the same personal sacrifices that are required of most airline workers. The problem has more to do with the caliber of leadership out of these bases than the content of the membership. The majority of members in OH probably would not object to a COLA.

If a COLA means leaving the pay the same on the line stations and bringing Tulsa in line with the COLA I dont think they would be happy with a 20K pay cut.

I know for a fact AA is not going to bump the line pay up it would make more sense to bump the Tulsa base pay down and at the same time save a few hundred million dollars.
😉

 

[scorpion]

<_< ---- Something else to keep in mind. TUL, AFW, and yes, MCIE, need the line stations! If they would break away, as you suggest, it would only be one short step in making the Overhaul Bases into full fledged MRO's! Wages, and, lack of benefits and all!!! Adding COLA clauses to a Contract should be no big deal! (Oh boy! I hate to say this, but!) TWA had them in their contract years ago!---- 😉

MCI
Just curious how much the cola was (roughly) in your contracts?

Here's a question for anyone who may have an answer.
Do any of the other majors have colas in their contracts? Not just mechanics but other labor groups as well.

 

[MCI transplant]

MCI
Just curious how much the cola was (roughly) in your contracts?

Here's a question for anyone who may have an answer.
Do any of the other majors have colas in their contracts? Not just mechanics but other labor groups as well.

<_< ---- Without digging into my old IAM contracts,(if I still have them?) I couldn't tell you at this time. But I do remember hearing that HNL had a COLA at one time, and if they did, I'm sure others did also. But we could be talking quit a few years ago now.---- What are we talking here? "Contract language" that could be negotiated into our next contract! I say "Could be!" But I can't see the "Good ol boys" of the TWU doing it! After all! It wouldn't be "fair" to the boys in TUL to negotiate something "more" for the AMTs in New York, or L.A. now would it?

 

[Bob Owens]

<_< ---- Bob, I personally don't have any problem with COLA, and I don't believe anyone here at MCI would. But from what I've seem of the "Me first" attitude of the boys from TUL, you may have a problem! I can hear it now! "Why should they have something we don't?" ---- 😉

What makes you think that the average person from Tulsa is any different than the average person from MCI?

As I've admitted before, out of fustration I've lashed out at Tulsa (and MCI) and labeled the whole based on what we see coming from the place,(through the people they allow to represent them) but everything we say about Tulsa the Ex-TWA guys from NY say about MCI.

The problem with Tulsa is that they have been insulated from the hardship they create, and their leadership only helps insure that they stay that way.

You have to remember that "revolutions never start on a full stomach"(I forget where I heard that one, but its true).

The leadership of Tulsa usually gets in power with the vote of a minority of the total membership. 2000 votes in Tulsa, with a membership of over 6000 is usually more than enough.

During the Concessions of 2003 Local 562 put an ad in the Tulsa World. The response was overwhelming, our answering machine ran out of space. Hits to the Locals website skyrocketed. Several members from Tulsa called asking how they could join Local 562. There are good people there, unfortunately they have poor union representation. There may be a few good people in Local 514s leadership but not enough to make a difference. The character of the Local itself discourages good people from stepping up because if they get involved it means they have to associate with those people. So, given that they are making good money for the locale, can pay their bills and live well outside of work, why go through the aggravation?

The problem with Tulsa, MCI, JFK and all the other locals is simply the TWU International. The TWU Intnl not only allows, but encourages union brothers and sisters to compete for the same work. Whether its Station vs station or classification vs classification, the TWU pits member against member. That is hardly a formula for solidarity and no real union would act that way.

Solidarity with the TWU at AA is an impossibility when the unaccountable International holds all the power and has built a system of locals under one contract that divides and conquers by design.The TWUs structure at AA takes power away from the members. Members can not choose who controls their contract. Without control over a contract you basically dont have the benifit of a contract.

Look at what is going on here. You accuse Tulsa of screwing MCI out of work, but the fact is that Tulsa does not own the contract, the International does, and what do they have to say about all this? "Oh, our Locals are autonimous", thats a lie. The fact is that the locals have no say in the contract or systemwide decisions of the union, including challeging the company on where they put work. The International even said that in court that the locals have no power. The Intnl owns the contract not the locals, if you want that in writing on TWU letterhead from Kerrigan send me your E-mail address and I'll send it to you.

The Intnl hides behind the actions of locals instead of providing leadership. When the AA-TWA workgroups were merged, the International could have said that you guys were dovetailed, like the IAM did when you bought Ozark, but instead they found a way to pawn off blame to the Locals-divide and conquer.

If Ozark had been a major carrier, in business for over 50 years , declining for 20 (meaning that they had a very senior workforce) and the IAM had put dovetail to a vote how do you think your brothers at TWA would have voted?

If you had 6000 mechanics at MCI and the union said we can send the work to you or we can send it to Tulsa and lay off some of your members instead how would they choose?

What we see out of Tulsa has more to do with their circumstances and the flawed TWU structure thats in place than the charecter of Tulsans. The blame lies with the TWU International, they tolerate and promote divisive competition between union brothers and sisters, because it benifits Amercican Airlines, instead of informing, educating and unifying their membership.

 

[MCI transplant]

What makes you think that the average person from Tulsa is any different than the average person from MCI?

As I've admitted before, out of fustration I've lashed out at Tulsa (and MCI) and labeled the whole based on what we see coming from the place,(through the people they allow to represent them) but everything we say about Tulsa the Ex-TWA guys from NY say about MCI.

The problem with Tulsa is that they have been insulated from the hardship they create, and their leadership only helps insure that they stay that way.

You have to remember that "revolutions never start on a full stomach"(I forget where I heard that one, but its true).

The leadership of Tulsa usually gets in power with the vote of a minority of the total membership. 2000 votes in Tulsa, with a membership of over 6000 is usually more than enough.

During the Concessions of 2003 Local 562 put an ad in the Tulsa World. The response was overwhelming, our answering machine ran out of space. Hits to the Locals website skyrocketed. Several members from Tulsa called asking how they could join Local 562. There are good people there, unfortunately they have poor union representation. There may be a few good people in Local 514s leadership but not enough to make a difference. The character of the Local itself discourages good people from stepping up because if they get involved it means they have to associate with those people. So, given that they are making good money for the locale, can pay their bills and live well outside of work, why go through the aggravation?

The problem with Tulsa, MCI, JFK and all the other locals is simply the TWU International. The TWU Intnl not only allows, but encourages union brothers and sisters to compete for the same work. Whether its Station vs station or classification vs classification, the TWU pits member against member. That is hardly a formula for solidarity and no real union would act that way.

Solidarity with the TWU at AA is an impossibility when the unaccountable International holds all the power and has built a system of locals under one contract that divides and conquers by design.The TWUs structure at AA takes power away from the members. Members can not choose who controls their contract. Without control over a contract you basically dont have the benifit of a contract.

Look at what is going on here. You accuse Tulsa of screwing MCI out of work, but the fact is that Tulsa does not own the contract, the International does, and what do they have to say about all this? "Oh, our Locals are autonimous", thats a lie. The fact is that the locals have no say in the contract or systemwide decisions of the union, including challeging the company on where they put work. The International even said that in court that the locals have no power. The Intnl owns the contract not the locals, if you want that in writing on TWU letterhead from Kerrigan send me your E-mail address and I'll send it to you.

The Intnl hides behind the actions of locals instead of providing leadership. When the AA-TWA workgroups were merged, the International could have said that you guys were dovetailed, like the IAM did when you bought Ozark, but instead they found a way to pawn off blame to the Locals-divide and conquer.

If Ozark had been a major carrier, in business for over 50 years , declining for 20 (meaning that they had a very senior workforce) and the IAM had put dovetail to a vote how do you think your brothers at TWA would have voted?

If you had 6000 mechanics at MCI and the union said we can send the work to you or we can send it to Tulsa and lay off some of your members instead how would they choose?

What we see out of Tulsa has more to do with their circumstances and the flawed TWU structure thats in place than the charecter of Tulsans. The blame lies with the TWU International, they tolerate and promote divisive competition between union brothers and sisters, because it benifits Amercican Airlines, instead of informing, educating and unifying their membership.

<_< ----- First I want to say that your right, I can't clam to speak for everyone here at MCI! But one thing you have to realize! MCI today, is a Overhaul Base in name only! Yes we have close to nine hundred people here, but that is the minimum required by the City to maintain their lease. Also that's everyone! Management, engineers, secretaries, plant maintenance, cleaners, stores personnel, and finally a little over three hundred twenty AMTs! All of which are retirement age, or close to it! The majority of us will, most likely, never see a new contract! Or if we do, will not see the end of it! This contrasts with a fairly young work force at TUL!----As far as work go's, we've been handed the work TUL, and AFW either can't do, or doesn't want! But that's O.K! We'll take whatever comes our way! At present they have us working three CIP's at the same time, along with the Saab work! We had 51 people retire last year, and they're in the process of calling back 18! You do the math! We just completed a heavy "C" check, and replaced a cracked wing/fuse. failsafe strap for Zoom Airlines 767! Why have three more 767's they want to bring in! Also Air Canada wants more work done here! There is also rumor that we may be doing some of the wing-let modes on the 757's! Tul is not getting them done fast enough for them! And there is talk about the 767s also! Alcoa isn't totally dead yet either! And in the mean time, we're working the 767 300 CIPs! Did I mention that there's a real good chance we 'll be doing the 767-200 also? And maybe even the 75"s!---- Well, I did say this is with a little over three hundred AMT's? Yea! right!---- 😉 So, work is not the issue! Head count is! And for most here a new contract, although important, dosn't have the same urgency as may be the case elsewhere!

 

[MCI transplant]

If a COLA means leaving the pay the same on the line stations and bringing Tulsa in line with the COLA I dont think they would be happy with a 20K pay cut.

I know for a fact AA is not going to bump the line pay up it would make more sense to bump the Tulsa base pay down and at the same time save a few hundred million dollars.
😉

<_< ---- Time, What I was referring to was a percentage above base pay for places like New York, L.A., SF, SAN. That percentage could even vary, depending on Cost of Living in that particular City. This all could be negotiated! Would the membership as a whole buy into something like this? I don't know? ----- You know! At some point, we as Union members have to stop worrying about "what makes more sense" for the Company! The reality of it should be that it will cost aa more to do business in places like New York, than in places like TUL, or even MCI!!! But! you have to start by negotiating a "solid" base rate, and make it clear that a COLA, is just that! "In addition to", based on the cost of living in that particular City!

 

[Bob Owens]

[quote name='MCI transplant' date='Jan 14 2007, 08:47 AM' post='4464work! We had 51 people retire last year, and So, work is not the issue! Head count is!
[/quote]
They arent replacing those lost through attrition here either but thats not much of an issue although I'm sure the TWU would love to try and make it a major issue and the focus of the next contract, so they could recover more dues. Anyone who was laid off has certainly found remployment by now and most likely would not come back even if there was a recall.


Argueing for more heads is a losing deal for the members. Argue for better pay first, if anything the shortage generates OT and helps us get by.So far the only claims made from all the PLI BS is that there may be a recall of six guys in California, nothing certain,a big maybe in return for millions worth of improvements and it does nothing to help those who are present members pay their bills.